Mike Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm thinking he couldn't do it 24/7 because he's a weak minded person. Good point! It reminds me of people who say they tried to exercise but it wasn't right for them. Well, that doesn't mean exercise is unhealthy; it means that the person either was doing it wrong or wasn't giving it the proper dedication. I don't want to come across like I'm dissing him, though. I do respect the fact that he has at least cut back on his consumption of animals- better than nothing, I suppose. It would have been cool, though, to have the article focus on Mac Danzig's success story, instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm thinking he couldn't do it 24/7 because he's a weak minded person. I wouldn't call any top Pro athlete a week minded person, especially a guy who is one of the best of all time at his position in a very physically demanding sport that millions hope to play professionally. I know what you mean, but I could no way call an athlete of that caliber a weak minded person. It takes so much heart, mind, dedication, work ethic and determination just to make it as a pro football player, and then to be a stand out, record setter, in one of the most popular sports on the continent is that much harder and takes much more focus and a very strong mind. We should also be careful who we call weak minded too, because to be fair, some people who can refrain from eating animals are also some of the laziest people I've met, therefore could be considered weak minded and not accountable for themselves other than a few certain aspects such as diet. Anyway, I know people who know Tony. I believe that he does want to become vegan and there is so much on the line that many don't know....such as the potential, that "IF" it works for the best player on the team (Tony), the whole team could be put on a plant-based diet to improve their performance. There are some top people working on this because they know the implications. And I do believe he is strong willed, strong minded, and is doing what any logical person would do, easing into a complete lifestyle change. Remember, at that level, any little change is considered huge. If he were to change shoes, there would be concern about his performance, just as there should be when he completely changes his diet. We'll see what comes from his continued efforts to follow a plant-based diet. I would hope he would be met with encouragement rather than ridicule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Being a good athlete doesn't make you strong minded in aspects other that sports. I know a lot of great athletes that are extremely weak people outside of their sport...this is why so many athletes that are already great...don't have pride to not take drugs. Maybe. he doesn't but chances are he has taken drugs as with most..thats weak mindedness. He's got a lot of money...there's no reason why he can't do whatever he wants to do and he is...he's doing exactly what he wants to do. I doubt he'll go vegan anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 For the record, the pessimism surrounding this situation concerns me. Not just you potter, but the reaction a lot of people on other forums or message boards and here are expressing. I'm getting more and more concerned when I see people looking for faults in others and questioning other's abilities. I think it says a lot about the person making those statements and claims. It is something I've been studying for a while now, as most likely noticeable in some of my posts. It just concerns me, that's all. And for the record, I support Tony along his journey to a plant-based diet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I would have supported him if he was still making progress but he was there then stepped backwards. Its like supporting someone going green that got rid of his Hummer for a H2...wait a minute...that is progress. OK...its like someone starting with a Hummer to an H3 then to an H2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjs Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Very well said Robert. I appreciate your honest opinion and for those that share a similar opinion, it is discouraging to see the criticism on the other boards. It is a life changing journey, and we're more likely to get someone to make the change with positive encouragement rather than criticism. For me, it is about moving further down the path to reducing animal suffering. I'd rather have 20 people eating a 90% plant based diet rather than a single person at 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I would have supported him if he was still making progress but he was there then stepped backwards. Its like supporting someone going green that got rid of his Hummer for a H2...wait a minute...that is progress. OK...its like someone starting with a Hummer to an H3 then to an H2. I believe it is the non-vegans we should support the most. Vegans have already made it to a plant-based diet. Non-vegans will always have my support and I will always be encouraging. My goal is to reach out to others and offer whatever I can to lift them up, keep them motivated and support them along they journey. That is the way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Very well said Robert. I appreciate your honest opinion and for those that share a similar opinion, it is discouraging to see the criticism on the other boards. It is a life changing journey, and we're more likely to get someone to make the change with positive encouragement rather than criticism. For me, it is about moving further down the path to reducing animal suffering. I'd rather have 20 people eating a 90% plant based diet rather than a single person at 100%. That is the approach I've been taking for a while. As I went out on my speaking tour and became a "motivational speaker" my messages have been encouraging and supportive and it has had a significant impact on many. I've gone more mainstream lately with my approach to reduce the amount of animals consumed or used and it has been a great thing. Working for Vega, we're proud of the fact that we replace 10's of thousands of animal meals everyday with a plant-based drink or smoothie. Even if it is the only plant-based meal they eat all day, that is still thousands of meals per day worldwide that are now vegan when before they were not. (90% of Vega's global customer base on 3 continents is non-vegan). I feel that a big picture, positive outlook is one of the best chances we have to leave a positive impression on someone and I think we see that happening all around us. My philosophy is to support and encourage rather than criticize and condemn. I'm not saying I'm write or that others are wrong. That doesn't go along with my approach, but I think I have some valid ideas to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm definitely happy people are moving more to a plant based diet no matter who it is. However someone that eats as much as an NFL football player...he still probably eats more meat than the average guy. I know before I was vegan I ate over 10,000 calories on most days...I doubt 2000 came from meat...that means I was on this 20% kick too...but that still means 2000 calories of meat. Lets be serious here...thats more of an ecological effect and more cruel than being a regular omni that eats 3000 calories a day and maybe 700 calories in animal products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 OK, fine. Tony Gonzalez is Satan. I actually believe he is the Devil because he tried to be follow a 100% plant-based diet and didn't quiet get there. So now he eats over half his calories from plants. He should be ridiculed for doing so by people who are morally superior to him. I may see him next week, I'll tell him hi from the Vegan community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I think we have been hard on Tony. It does take guts to even attempt to go vegan in a sport like pro football. I come from a family of football fans and even my little sister makes fun of me for not devouring meat like the rest of my family. My main complaint was with the article itself. I think it focused too much on why the vegan diet didn't work, and not enough on how it could've worked. That isn't Tony's fault; he didn't write the story. If Tony feels like everyone in the vegan community is like the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld, he might be completely turned off by it (and his fans would be as well). I think it's best to show him support. Maybe he'll eventually find a way to make veganism work, at least in the off-season. But I wouldn't want to be part of a community that didn't support me. As a side note, and this is more for my personal knowledge, wouldn't flax seed oil accomplish the same basic effect as fish oil (regarding Omega 3's and such)? I'm not trying to criticize, but I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 You aren't missing anything. Its easy to go vegan and he could easily do it. He's not vegan because he doesn't want to be. I'm not holding anything against him. He's no different than anyone else on the street. He's a regular guy in the NFL(better than most of course) that eats lots of food(a large amount in total but not a large percentage coming from meat). Al Oerter is the best discus throwers of all time...he competed nearly in his 50s and won 4 olympic gold medals as a vegetarian. He was most likely stronger than Tony. And trust me...I've been around a lot of sports at a high level and nobody is more anti veg than throwers. He did it openly and he was strong minded enough to not care what others though. Tony isn't strong minded enough and its intrinsically branded in him to not be. He's a leader on the field and a follower off the field. I'm not blaming Tony...no article should have ever been written about this anyway. It reminds me of articles saying how green a celebrity is because he has a hybrid...but it doesn't mention his 4 Lamborghinis or the jet he flies in. I have no problem with someone doing that...just don't write an article about the green car when the rest are gas guzzlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 My final comment is..... How dare we be so short sighted as a movement. It is unfortunate, but that is how it works in any kind of movement. How dare we take stances of moral superiority and question the integrity of those of whom we know nothing about. How dare we act so foolishly in counterproductive ways. How dare we attempt to raise our own self worth by lowering others'. How dare we belittle those attempting to make positive choices in their lives. When I first tried to become vegan it didn't work. When Brendan Brazier first tried to become vegan, it didn't work. 15 years later we're some of the most well known athletes living a vegan lifestyle. This scenario is probably true for many people who transition to a plant based diet. How dare we get so caught up in our own self righteousness that we ignore the bigger picture and refuse to acknowledge the positive implications of each individual's efforts to consume fewer animals. How dare we act in such a manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Personally I don't see being vegan a good thing to begin with. BEING VEGAN IS NOT A GOOD THING. Being vegan just isn't bad. I've said it a million times. Is it really a good thing to not be a murderer...of course its not...its just not bad to not be a murderer. I'm not gonna be self righteous about something I don't think is even a good thing...I will however stand up for those I think are being wronged...animals. Remember...Tony is still eating animals...not just eating them but with money from his wallet he's saying...hey slaughterhouse...kill 100animals for me this year(he eats more meat than most due to total calorie intake and the 20% estimate). Its not good to say KILL 100 ANIMALS for me. ***With that said its not good to not pay for animals to die either...its just not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I agree with potter. At least the guy is trying... One reason I don't say the word vegan is because that's just another word to divide people. That's not what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcats02 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 My final comment is..... How dare we be so short sighted as a movement. It is unfortunate, but that is how it works in any kind of movement. How dare we take stances of moral superiority and question the integrity of those of whom we know nothing about. How dare we act so foolishly in counterproductive ways. How dare we attempt to raise our own self worth by lowering others'. How dare we belittle those attempting to make positive choices in their lives. When I first tried to become vegan it didn't work. When Brendan Brazier first tried to become vegan, it didn't work. 15 years later we're some of the most well known athletes living a vegan lifestyle. This scenario is probably true for many people who transition to a plant based diet. How dare we get so caught up in our own self righteousness that we ignore the bigger picture and refuse to acknowledge the positive implications of each individual's efforts to consume fewer animals. How dare we act in such a manner. We dare because in a word (well actually 3 words), we are human! And being human means that, at times, we are selfish, lazy, judgmental, hypocritical, short sighted, foolish, self righteous along with many other things, ways, and acts; some of which are the flip side: compassionate, loving, forgiving, patient... Rob and my fellow forum friends, you asks "how dare we...?" Let us dare to be human; accepting and tolerating our own and others imperfections, then, if and when possible, growing, improving, sharing and caring! To me, this is what life is all about: this forum, my friends, family, neighbors, workplace, the world... it gives meaning, understanding, approval, liberation, surrender, peace, and substance and essence; all of which won't exist without their opposites (meaninglessness, misunderstanding, rejection, enslavement, capture, struggle, emptiness and superficiality). Let's not give up on working things out, let's give whatever we can to make it work. Potter, Zack, Rob, Mike, and everybody out there including myself (there i go talking to myself again...): there is nothing wrong with who and how you are. That is why you are you; if you acted any differently then you'd be someone else. People'd say hey that person is not acting normal, that person is not themselves... be who you are and realize that change is part of the plan. Peas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neven Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I agree with all three of you, Robert, Veganpotter and Paulcats02.But I take more positive step towards Robert and Paulcats02.Animals are killed every day and if someone choose more plant-based less animal-based diet I see this as a positive step towards.They are still killed but now they are killed less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcats02 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I agree with all three of you, Robert, Veganpotter and Paulcats02.But I take more positive step towards Robert and Paulcats02.Animals are killed every day and if someone choose more plant-based less animal-based diet I see this as a positive step towards.They are still killed but now they are killed less. This a very good point you bring up, Neven. And let us all agree on this: agreements come in all different flavors... and then there's agreeing to disagree, too. personally, if i don't agree with someone i still try to see it their way or from their angle, and even if i don't get it, i let i be. i feel like trying to win an argument or convince someone of something takes a lot of energy so i try to let go of that. i do my part in my relationships to people places and things and hopefully influence and inspire those who are open to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Veganism Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Vegan bodybuilding hug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsorlando Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I think a lot of the time people don't get a vegan diet right the first time around. I'm one of them. So I say give the guy another chance. Maybe he'll eventually get it right. And if not well that's his problem! Everyone after all is on their own level of understanding about these kind of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I say he needs to give it another chance...or better yet give the animals another chance. I don't think anyone here doesn't want someone to keep trying but if they go into it thinking its not gonna work...it never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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