Jump to content

mega mass oatmeal


Recommended Posts

  • 1 month later...
  • Replies 52
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • 4 weeks later...

For the past couple of days I've been having a mix of oats, grated apple, blueberry soy yoghurt, soy milk and chopped almonds and I warm it up a little and put some mixed berries on top. Yummmm

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

sat fats are supposed to be good for t-levels which is awesome for good ole muscles

 

 

This is true. However, saturated fats are not essential, just as cholesterol is not essential - your body makes them. Eating more will not increase your testosterone levels. The only essential fats (those that we need but cannot synthesize) are the omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids. Mono-unsaturated fats, sometimes referred to as oleic or omega 9 are not essential since your body makes them but you need to be eating enough of the essential fatty acids for the building blocks. It is found in plant sources, such as olives and avocados. However, eating additional mono-unsaturated fats appears to be neutral at the least and beneficial in some aspects.

 

If you are on a very low fat diet, then you risk fatty acids deficiencies - both essential and non-essential.

 

And getting back to oats - we like any form of them in this house!

 

"If you are on a very low fat diet, then you risk fatty acids deficiencies - both essential and non-essential."

 

Sorry but this is simply not supported via the evidence - where are all these people with fatty acid deficiency? Because you won't find them in the scientific literature, despite what they teach at universities. Essential fat requirement is tiny, and easily met by whole plant foods without added oil, please read this:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/aug/oils.htm

 

Also, I find the idea that eating saturated fat (or any fat) increases net protein deposition in muscles absurd, and completely unscientific (but perhaps I'm misinterpreting here). Metabolism science shows that insulin is the hormone that pushes protein into storage, and high levels of carbohydrates are what raise insulin levels. If you want to gain fat, eat lots of fat. But if the goal is to increase muscle stores while minimizing fat gain, then you maximize carbs and minimize fat intake (I'm currently working on my second blog post, which will give a good overview of metabolism and MNP and review some of the important studies on the subject).

 

Quote from that article:

"Essential Fat Deficiency Is Essentially Unknown

 

In our bodies these plant-derived, essential fats are used for many purposes including the formation of all cellular membranes, and the synthesis of powerful hormones, known as eicosanoids (prostaglandins, leukotrienes, and thromboxanes). Our requirement is very tiny, and even the most basic diets provide sufficient linoleic acid to meet our requirement, which is estimated to be 1–2% of dietary energy.1 Therefore, in practical terms, a condition of “essential fatty acid deficiency” is essentially unknown in free-living populations.*

 

Essential fatty acid deficiency is seen when sick patients are fed intravenously by fat-free parenteral nutrition. In these cases, correction of the deficiency can be accomplished by applying small amounts of soybean or safflower oil to their skin—giving you some idea of the small amount of oil we require.2 Plan on your diet of basic plant-foods supplying an abundance of essential fats delivered in perfectly designed packages, functioning efficiently and safely.

 

*Some people talk about a “relative deficiency” of essential fats created by a large intake of saturated animal fats, synthetic trans fats (as found in margarine and shortenings), and/or omega-6 fats compared to their intake of omega-3 fats, and they believe many of our common chronic diseases are the result of this imbalance.1 This is quite different from true essential fatty acid deficiency which would result in: loss of hair, scaly dermatitis, capillary fragility, poor wound healing, increased susceptibility to infection, fatty liver, and growth retardation in infants and children.

 

1) Sanders TA. Essential fatty acid requirements of vegetarians in pregnancy, lactation, and infancy. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 Sep;70(3 Suppl):555S-559S.

 

2) Marcason W. Can cutaneous application of vegetable oil prevent an essential fatty acid deficiency? J Am Diet Assoc. 2007 Jul;107(7):1262."

 

Though it is popular in nutrition, there is no evidential foundation for warning people eating whole plant foods about either protein deficiency or essential fat deficiency. Whole plants usually have at least some fat in them. For example people can live on potatoes alone, yet they only have about a gram of fat per potato. Usually the time spent on trying to frighten vegans could have been better spent illustrating our herbivorous biology and how excellent we are at meeting nutritional needs & energy balance via whole plant foods. I've taken high level nutrition course in college, but I decided I could never be a R.D. because I just couldn't handle the obvious influence of the meat and dairy-industry on textbooks and professors (and most RDs just end up feeding sick people the animal foods that causes the illness in the first place, like in a hospital, for example). In fact most nutrition profs at my college had grants from the dairy or meat industry, so it is no surprise that mainstream nutrition bends over backwards to shed doubt upon a plant-based diet! The fact that the body's need for protein & essential fats is so easily met by whole food is no surprise when you consider our herbivorous biology - millions of years of natural selection have perfected the human body's ability to extract what it needs from plant foods. And with B12, bacteria make it, and it is present on uncleaned plant foods, which is how total herbivores meet their tiny needs (micrograms are very small). Besides - eating plants straight from the source probably meant a few bugs in each bite, lol . I mean, read the quote I posted, even when fed an artifical fat-free diet, deficiency is cured by rubbing a little oil on the skin! If you use vitamin E oil occasionally, that is probably enough to meet your essential fat needs (soy oil is usually the base)! That elucidates just how well we are adapted to low-fat plant foods.

Edited by veganmaster
Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember having a zero gram fat diet for 2 weeks last summer, it was a protein fasting, with only protein shakes and low sugar. Because there was no fats at all, after about 12 days, all my skin all over my body why so dry that it was falling, especially on my legs. I stopped after losing 14 pounds in 14 days.

I'm just saying, let's not do war against fats. We can surely eliminate totally oils from our diet, but eating some walnuts, or some hemp containing healthy fats, and 1 avocado each day or 2 is really acceptable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"If you are on a very low fat diet, then you risk fatty acids deficiencies - both essential and non-essential."

 

Sorry but this is simply not supported via the evidence - where are all these people with fatty acid deficiency? Because you won't find them in the scientific literature, despite what they teach at universities. Essential fat requirement is tiny, and easily met by whole plant foods without added oil, please read this:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/aug/oils.htm

 

Veganmaster, I detect an "anti-academia" attitude in a lot of your posts. You sometimes refer to "most scientists" or "what they teach at universities" the way that some leftists talk about "the man" - as though you're referring to an intangible, evil force that permeates the world and poisons all it touches.

 

Please try to keep your perspective - I don't think you know firsthand what they teach at universities regarding metabolism and nutrition, because you never had a formal education in it. You also talk about what people will or will not find if they search "the scientific literature", as though you have an archival knowledge of it. The vast majority of journals out there are not open-access, so you couldn't be reading over 95% of the articles being published every month on these subjects without subscriptions or access via a university subscription, even if you had time to read them all (the volume of research being published every month is too much for any one person to keep up on - that's why researchers end up specializing in one particular area...it's the only way to stay current and relevant). You also quote and reference Dr. McDougall constantly - he runs a business, and has books, DVDs, etc to sell, so realize the inherent danger in relying on such sources of information. It's not unlike referencing Pfizer in a discussion of whether or not certain medications are beneficial.

 

You put a lot of work and thought into nutrition - and this is not a personal attack. It's not like I know everything on these subjects, either. But I hope you realize the way you write with authority about academia (both about the attitudes of most scientists and about what you have learned) despite having never been immersed in that environment or having had access to most of the tools and information that others, whom you clearly have strong opinions about, have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

the only thing that bugs me about VeganMaster posts is that he always quote that same 2 or 3 studies about the importance of low-fat diets. I think I may have felt on the same study at least 30 times. As if this study is supposed to be the Supreme Answer to All the Mysteries in the Universe.

He said at least a dozen times :"the fat you eat is the fat you wear". Not true: I knew a guy who was a compulsive eater, eating all day because of stress -- foods like chips, chocolate, hot-dogs, pizza, etc -- and he didn't have a single atom of fat, because of his fast metabolism burning every calorie, and it's the samething for most people with ectomorph bodytype.

 

 

Anyway, I'm not attacking you or your posts, they don't really bother me, I just stopped reading them that's all, because I know it's gonna be the same low-fat thing.

My posts aren't better, I've been told they're "outrageous", with no scientific background, that they're just abherrant rants with controversial ideas, etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have come across many studies beyond what veganmaster has cited supporting what he says on at least carbohydrate overfeeding, so there is most certainly no lack of evidence on at least that aspect of what he says.

Link to post
Share on other sites
the only thing that bugs me about VeganMaster posts is that he always quote that same 2 or 3 studies about the importance of low-fat diets. I think I may have felt on the same study at least 30 times. As if this study is supposed to be the Supreme Answer to All the Mysteries in the Universe.

He said at least a dozen times :"the fat you eat is the fat you wear". Not true: I knew a guy who was a compulsive eater, eating all day because of stress -- foods like chips, chocolate, hot-dogs, pizza, etc -- and he didn't have a single atom of fat, because of his fast metabolism burning every calorie, and it's the samething for most people with ectomorph bodytype.

 

 

Anyway, I'm not attacking you or your posts, they don't really bother me, I just stopped reading them that's all, because I know it's gonna be the same low-fat thing.

My posts aren't better, I've been told they're "outrageous", with no scientific background, that they're just abherrant rants with controversial ideas, etc.

 

i often wonder, and this may be a good poll to run, do certain forum members not read certain other members posts because of reasons like the above (which is their personal freedom to do so) but is unfortunate because every once in a while somebody may change their tune or maybe within the "same thing" or ranting and raving... may lie a jewel of an idea. let us not forget we are dynamic not static beings!

 

furthermore, how many members just post their reply to original thread starter post and not even read any of the other posts?

 

anyway, i don't want to go too far off topic here... so back to oats: sometimes i throw them into shakes to bump up their fiber.

 

i also wonder rolled oats vs steel cut, what are the benefits?

 

last but not least: soaked and sprouted, soaked and cooked, cooked from dry, or blended from dry?

 

i usually do the latter 2 but am interested in the soaking approach in general and looking forward to try at some time...

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have come across many studies beyond what veganmaster has cited supporting what he says on at least carbohydrate overfeeding, so there is most certainly no lack of evidence on at least that aspect of what he says.

 

i often wonder with studies, who is doing them and what their "agenda" is. for example, soy: soy manufacturers will look at results one way including favorable results and not disclosing unfavorable while beef or dairy producers will flip the script. it's hard to find unbiased scientific holistic studies is what i am saying.

 

and regarding carb feeding or any dietary style for that matter i wonder if the most important variable that is the trump card is the person and their individuality: in this case, metabolism, or in other cases, food allergies, intolerance or sensitivity.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

i often wonder, and this may be a good poll to run, do certain forum members not read certain other members posts because of reasons like the above (which is their personal freedom to do so) but is unfortunate because every once in a while somebody may change their tune or maybe within the "same thing" or ranting and raving... may lie a jewel of an idea. let us not forget we are dynamic not static beings!

Yes it could make an interesting poll. I agree, people are (or can, they shoulb be) dynamic, not static beings, and that's what I encourage. To learn, change, evoluate, progress, experiment, etc. But when someone studies a particular subject, that becomes a passion for a certain period of time (weeks, months, years) and it is normal it takes all it's time, unfortunately at the expense of other interests that are being put aside. Nothing wrong about that. Sometimes this passion is even transmitted to others (I stopped reading all posts about the hi-cho, lo-fat diet, but I must admit I was intrigued enough to look ito it further now).

anyway, i don't want to go too far off topic here... so back to oats: sometimes i throw them into shakes to bump up their fiber.

 

i also wonder rolled oats vs steel cut, what are the benefits?

 

last but not least: soaked and sprouted, soaked and cooked, cooked from dry, or blended from dry?

 

i usually do the latter 2 but am interested in the soaking approach in general and looking forward to try at some time...

Perhaps soaking have some benefits (like less time required for cooking, like for rice) but as for sprouting, we can only sprout living/raw foods, and while it is possible that oat can be raw, it is very hard to find in a food store. For your questions about dry, I don't think it's bad to eat dry oat, because in a certain way it's already been kind of semi-cooked, but it's kind of like eating flour, the digestion is easier if you cook it, I think.
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

yeah but not on the glycemic index index index

I like to go to the ATM machine before going to buy steel cut oats, lol

 

Just don't let someone see your PIN number while at that ATM machine thinking about your GI index!

Link to post
Share on other sites
@veganmaster:

Are you trying to make the point that nuts and seeds are bad for ones health?

 

I don't think he is making the point that they are bad for one's health, but from what he has studied, he has concluded that the best way to gain muscle without gaining much fat is to go high carb, low fat. There is plenty of evidence that healthy fats allow the human body to preserve protein, but there could possibly be a higher risk of putting on more fat and less muscle with a higher fat content. I am not a complete believer, but am merely considering this option, as I do all options before making my decision on whether or not they are valid.

 

On the fats and health thing, though, most studies which add fat into people's diets in the form of nuts, avocados or maybe even olive oil generally put them in place of refined starches or sugars. The increased health of subjects doesn't necessarily show that those items are a good addition to any diet, just that they are healthier than the refined, processed items they replaced. Comparing the results of the McDougall and Fuhrman diet, it is apparent that they are quite equal in lowering cholesterol, blood pressure, etc. However, Furhman's diet comes out ahead in the weight loss department since he recommends such high levels of vegetables and people are left with little room in their stomachs for much else. McDougall's diet, though, tends to help people's triglyceride levels more because it doesn't stress fruit as much.

 

In the end, they are quite close in effectiveness and it seems the best plan to choose the one which fits your lifestyle/tastes/goals/sensitivities the best. There are of course other variations of these types of diet, but those are the two I am most familiar with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am cutting, and I still have my oatmeal in the morning. I haven't gone hardcore yet, so I still put a little agave nectar in it to get it down. I put brown rice protein powder, spirulina, and Vega's EFA oil (1 tablespoon) in it. It keeps me full while working out an hour later.

 

About studies and scientists. We are learning things all the time. I say take in the info, and then try it for yourself. Like the guy who said he went on a diet without any oil and his skin dried out after awhile. I limit my oil intake just for cutting and to get my bodyfat down, but I do not cut it out completely. Because I too cut out oil for two weeks and was sick!!!!

 

What is also amazing is that scientists think they know what they are talking about, and have evidence to support it, but it is still theories, and are always being tested. A good theory is one that stays around and around and passes the tests all the time. Thus, the world is still a sphere!

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

sat fats are supposed to be good for t-levels which is awesome for good ole muscles

 

 

This is true. However, saturated fats are not essential, just as cholesterol is not essential - your body makes them. Eating more will not increase your testosterone levels. The only essential fats (those that we need but cannot synthesize) are the omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids. Mono-unsaturated fats, sometimes referred to as oleic or omega 9 are not essential since your body makes them but you need to be eating enough of the essential fatty acids for the building blocks. It is found in plant sources, such as olives and avocados. However, eating additional mono-unsaturated fats appears to be neutral at the least and beneficial in some aspects.

 

If you are on a very low fat diet, then you risk fatty acids deficiencies - both essential and non-essential.

 

And getting back to oats - we like any form of them in this house!

 

I thought that was the case thanks for that info.

Link to post
Share on other sites

First, when it comes to health, I try to look at the correlations from epidemiological studies. If one can find (or can't find) a correlation there then I can see the point in looking for info from in vitro studies of the compounds possibly involved.

For health, there are no correlations giving negative results from eating nuts and seeds.

 

Second. When I started going to the gym in the 80's bodybuilders ate the diet veganmaster suggests. It was rice and and protein (usually in the form of lean fish). They got big back hen and they gat big now (on the atkins diet).

 

That insulin is just going to "shove in" protein in the muscles sounds a little bizarre for me. I compare it with another analogue from McDougall about the calcium and bone strength. Just eating calcium (and vitamin D) is not going to strengthen your bones since the procedure that the body uses is way more complicated than that. We do not fully understand this procedure.

 

There have been plenty of smart people that have spent their entire career to study cell metabolism. It's not simple. If it were then we'd have a cure for virus diseases and bodybuilders would get big as houses in a few months. The industry would find a way of selling a glucose pea protein goop to them and they would gladly drink it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree fully, offense. There is a lot of evidence to the healthiness of many variations on the primarily plant based, whole food diet. You are best off picking the one which works best for you. Currently, I am experimenting with the ultra low fat McDougall type diet. What I am doing is actually a low fat Furhman diet with extra beans and other starches replacing the majority of the nuts, seeds and avocados. It is actually more nutrient dense this way, but the fat content is lower, which may or may not impact the healthiness of it. I don't do the true hunger or shooting for only two meals a day thing, though.

 

Higher levels of insulin actually increase the bodies efficiency at storing energy in either the form of fat or protein. Veganmaster's theory is that there is very little fat in his diet to store and carbohydrates are stored rather inefficiently as fat, so the body may actually manage to store a more favorable ratio of lean to adipose tissue while overfeeding. Once I tear down a bit more fat (8-10 lbs), I am going to put his theory to the test.

 

Anyway, we are moving well off the track here, so maybe we should take further comments to veganmaster's MNP thread. If anyone wants to respond to me, just quote what I have said here and move it there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Thought I'd contribute to a lengthy thread on oarsome oats!

 

I usually have mine with cold water and I don't liek mixing fruit with other food types so I might be viewed as boring in the oat department!

 

We Brits call it Porridge though I think this refers to oats when with milk technically speaking.

 

Fractals!

 

I know it's off topic but has anyone seen the Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton? There's an amazing piece in that about the mandelbrot set and fractal geometry/evolution.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Thought I'd contribute to a lengthy thread on oarsome oats!

 

I usually have mine with cold water and I don't liek mixing fruit with other food types so I might be viewed as boring in the oat department!

 

We Brits call it Porridge though I think this refers to oats when with milk technically speaking.

 

Fractals!

 

I know it's off topic but has anyone seen the Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton? There's an amazing piece in that about the mandelbrot set and fractal geometry/evolution.

I never saw a thread going so much off-topic than this. I love fractals, especially if they include spirals. I want to do a short film only with animated fractals showing all the spirals found in nature, from DNA to galaxies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...