Raw cyclist, cool guy, and B12 -- Durianrider

[Katabatic]

I found this guy to be really cool. He's cycling around Australia and other countries on just raw plants, no supplements. He even won a durian speed eating competition in Thailand, lol

 

http://a645.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/64/l_6c232db45e423510db693cce8e0549fc.jpg

 

http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1385

http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12920 Rant thread

http://www.myspace.com/durianrider

 

One argument many have with him concerns with B12, that he doesn't supplement.

Interesting test result he got though(From page 6 on rant thread)

got my b12 test back today. it was 33 now is 110. the min rda range level is 120.

 

so how on earth did that happen? my b12 went up? was it cos i lowered my fat intake for the last 4 months and my absorption increased?

[Guest]

Awesome...I don't know if I respect him more or less thanks to the Durian though....very odd.

[Im Your Man]

He seems like a cool guy

[Steej]

Thats Harley... You can talk to him on Doug Grahams message board.

 

I have talked to him a couple times through the board and email. He is extremely helpful and an amazing athlete!!!

 

Cheers

[DV]

Quote:

got my b12 test back today. it was 33 now is 110. the min rda range level is 120.

 

so how on earth did that happen? my b12 went up? was it cos i lowered my fat intake for the last 4 months and my absorption increased?

 

 

 

While this may appear to be a compelling reason to avoid B12 supplementation, it is playing with fire IMO. I know many people who smoke and don't get lung cancer - they are the lucky ones. But their results don't change the fact that many do get cancer.

 

Vit B12 is an essential human vitamin. Every person has a different supply that they will use up before showing signs of deficiency - which can have irreversible neurological effects and/or heart disease. You may be able to go a few years without supplementing or only a few months based on YOUR specific body chemistry. Extrapolate others' results at your own health risk. And believe others' claims of test results (and the validity of those results) at your own risk.

[robert]

He's featured in our profiles section, I believe:

 

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_harley

[Zack]

lmao...

 

based on his name, I may be distantly related...

 

Anyways, I'm not too fond of him. Very unique person though.

[Katabatic]

Quote:

got my b12 test back today. it was 33 now is 110. the min rda range level is 120.

 

so how on earth did that happen? my b12 went up? was it cos i lowered my fat intake for the last 4 months and my absorption increased?

 

While this may appear to be a compelling reason to avoid B12 supplementation, it is playing with fire IMO.

Vit B12 is an essential human vitamin. Every person has a different supply that they will use up before showing signs of deficiency

 

I agree. But the main thing here is if it's possible to get B12 from a natural plant diet. By the looks of it, if his B12 went up, he must be getting some. B12 is the only real argument about veganism being "unnatural". I suppose one could eat some insect for B12

[DV]

And my point is that one person's alleged blood test results should not be used to advance a theory that B12 supplementation is not necessary for a vegan diet. This topic has been covered extensively by veg organizations and medical organizations. Some links:

 

The Vegetarian Society

Researchers have suggested that supposed B12 supplements such as spirulina may in fact increase the risk of B12 deficiency disease, as the B12 analogues can compete with B12 and inhibit metabolism.

 

The current nutritional consensus is that no plant foods can be relied on as a safe source of vitamin B12.

 

Bacteria present in the large intestine are able to synthesise B12. In the past, it has been thought that the B12 produced by these colonic bacteria could be absorbed and utilised by humans. However, the bacteria produce B12 too far down the intestine for absorption to occur, B12 not being absorbed through the colon lining.

 

Medline

 

American Family Physician shows how that blood test is actually indicative of this man already BELOW normal for B12 and that this one blood test is not enough for diagnosis.

"Vitamin B12 (cobalamin) deficiency is a common cause of macrocytic anemia and has been implicated in a spectrum of neuropsychiatric disorders. The role of B12 deficiency in hyperhomocysteinemia and the promotion of atherosclerosis is only now being explored. Diagnosis of vitamin B12 deficiency is typically based on measurement of serum vitamin B12 levels; however, about 50 percent of patients with subclinical disease have normal B12 levels. A more sensitive method of screening for vitamin B12 deficiency is measurement of serum methylmalonic acid and homocysteine levels, which are increased early in vitamin B12 deficiency. Use of the Schilling test for detection of pernicious anemia has been supplanted for the most part by serologic testing for parietal cell and intrinsic factor antibodies. Contrary to prevailing medical practice, studies show that supplementation with oral vitamin B12 is a safe and effective treatment for the B12 deficiency state. Even when intrinsic factor is not present to aid in the absorption of vitamin B12 (pernicious anemia) or in other diseases that affect the usual absorption sites in the terminal ileum, oral therapy remains effective. (Am Fam Physician 2003;67:979-86,993-4. Copyright© 2003 American Academy of Family Physicians.)"

 

VeganHealth.org

 

 

It is certainly your decision to experiment and see if you are one of the people who can go for years without vit B12 supplementation. They certainly do exist. I don't know why anyone living in a world of technological and nutritional advances would want to risk their health by living with a subclinical, sub-optimal vit B12 status.

[xveganjoshx]

And my point is that one person's alleged blood test results should not be used to advance a theory that B12 supplementation is not necessary for a vegan diet. This topic has been covered extensively by veg organizations and medical organizations. Some links:

 

The Vegetarian Society

Researchers have suggested that supposed B12 supplements such as spirulina may in fact increase the risk of B12 deficiency disease, as the B12 analogues can compete with B12 and inhibit metabolism.

 

The current nutritional consensus is that no plant foods can be relied on as a safe source of vitamin B12.

 

Bacteria present in the large intestine are able to synthesise B12. In the past, it has been thought that the B12 produced by these colonic bacteria could be absorbed and utilised by humans. However, the bacteria produce B12 too far down the intestine for absorption to occur, B12 not being absorbed through the colon lining.

 

Medline

 

American Family Physician shows how that blood test is actually indicative of this man already BELOW normal for B12 and that this one blood test is not enough for diagnosis.

"Vitamin B12 (cobalamin) deficiency is a common cause of macrocytic anemia and has been implicated in a spectrum of neuropsychiatric disorders. The role of B12 deficiency in hyperhomocysteinemia and the promotion of atherosclerosis is only now being explored. Diagnosis of vitamin B12 deficiency is typically based on measurement of serum vitamin B12 levels; however, about 50 percent of patients with subclinical disease have normal B12 levels. A more sensitive method of screening for vitamin B12 deficiency is measurement of serum methylmalonic acid and homocysteine levels, which are increased early in vitamin B12 deficiency. Use of the Schilling test for detection of pernicious anemia has been supplanted for the most part by serologic testing for parietal cell and intrinsic factor antibodies. Contrary to prevailing medical practice, studies show that supplementation with oral vitamin B12 is a safe and effective treatment for the B12 deficiency state. Even when intrinsic factor is not present to aid in the absorption of vitamin B12 (pernicious anemia) or in other diseases that affect the usual absorption sites in the terminal ileum, oral therapy remains effective. (Am Fam Physician 2003;67:979-86,993-4. Copyright© 2003 American Academy of Family Physicians.)"

 

VeganHealth.org

 

 

It is certainly your decision to experiment and see if you are one of the people who can go for years without vit B12 supplementation. They certainly do exist. I don't know why anyone living in a world of technological and nutritional advances would want to risk their health by living with a subclinical, sub-optimal vit B12 status.

 

Diane, why do you always have to ruin our fantasizing and wishful thinking with FACTS??? You're such a party pooper.

[DV]

I won't deny that. I suck. You should see me in church. Wooweee, did I ever get put in the time out corner by those nuns growing up! You would think with all that money and all those years of practice, the Vatican could have come up with more believable stories.

[durianrider]

just got informed of this thread. thanks for the support. i hand out this sites name to many crew. people ask me 'where you get your protein from?' i tell em to go visit www.veganbodybuilding.com or join me on my next solo 500km+ training ride..

 

on b12. my personal conclusion is that its made and ABSORBED in a healthy body. i was eating chilli, garlic, salt, oils etc. and even as a raw vegan this was irritating my digestive system and creating mucous which impaired B12 ABSORPTION. so i treated the cause not the symptoms.

 

sure some crew have had surgery and need pills. do your research and do what vibes with you.

 

read '80/10/10' by dr douglas graham. he is an old skool raw vegan walk'n his talk.

 

im in penang today. staying on an organic durian farm. just had a swim in a rainforrest pool. got a blistering hill training session at 5pm. im hydrated, carbed and rested to the eyeballs. life is sweet.

[andesuma]

on b12. my personal conclusion is that its made and ABSORBED in a healthy body.

 

 

I completely agree.

I have read, very very extensively both sides of the discussion on B12...I've

had 13 years of being vegan to soak it in, think about it, and research it to my

hearts content.

I was also raised by a nurse and have come from a family of medical professionals,

my grandmother was a nutritionist.

 

I do not supplement either, I have been vegan for 13 years and for

4 1/2 of those years, I've been raw vegan.

 

 

But I am not advising anyone else do this... I advise everyone listen to their body

and discover their own truth

 

 

Great Job durianrider! this is a beautiful, beautiful, thing.

[durianrider]

today i cycled up penang hill on my road bike. the local riders said 'no way champ!' not on those road gears...you need a mountain bike.

 

but i wrenched my way to the peak wearing my organic athlete cycling kit with 'go vegan' on the ass.

 

in society people are often sincere. but sincerely wrong.

[Balazs]

hy!

 

I think it should be a personal decision wether to take or not, howewer personaly believe that it is not neccesary.

All the vegans tell that we made for fruit and green eating not for meat, then how is this possible?, is it a mistake, a malfunction in the evolution? I mean our ancestors lived on fruits and greens before they satarted to work together and hunt or something, and they survived and evolved and they did not need to take any supplements. This theory is based on the theory that every vegans tell that we are not carnivorous then why should we take anything? This way we dont even belive ourself. I think the Nature is perfect in this way. But as i said it is not a big deal, if you feel the need take it, so what?

Think about.

[GregX999]

From what I've read on the subject, I think it's just an issue of hygiene. These days our food is washed and/or processed, we wash our hands before we eat (some of us anyway...), we eat of off clean plates with clean utensils. We're just not ingesting the amount of bacteria that our ancestors did.

 

It's very possible that living the way Durianrider is, being outside so much, eating fruit from street vendors, etc. (I've watched his vids on youtube) that he's just being exposed to enough bacteria to raise his B12 levels. Of course, it also may be the case that eating as he does allows his system to absorb more B12. Perhaps both.

 

In any case, I'll continue to supplement as my plates and utensils are (usually) clean.

 

Greg

[ChaserHUN]

I'm sometimes really confused about this B-12 thing, I've red that alfalfa(sprouts too) have B-12, nutritiondata.com says it doesn't, I've red that kombucha have B-12 too but you won't absorb that, you don't absorb from spirulina, wheatgrass doesn't have enough, and I can't get always unwashed fruits and veggies, sometimes I really don't know what to believe, I've red that soy sprouts have B-12 too but it's really hard to sprout soy beans

[Balazs]

It have done it several times(soy), but i dont like it very much.

I sprout alfalfa also and i like it, easy to sprout.

I drink wheatgass also, and it is very healthy and tasty so good.

I am not worried about this b12 thing.

[ISETFIRE]

I am not worried about this b12 thing.

 

"I am not worried about this b12 thing", said the young man... and 10 years later he suffers from irreversible damage to his brain and nerves.

 

I would advise you to at least check your b12 status every 2 years, at least. I totally understand that people don't want to supplement, but then you may should worry a tiny bit.

[ChaserHUN]

I'm trying not to worry either, but I'm vegan only for half an year, so I have some time til I run low of B12, but I think I will go and take a check up once

[ChaserHUN]

I wrote to Dr. Douglas Gaham about organic vs. non-organic foods, and asked him about B12 too, he wrote back this:

 

If you can't buy organic, then don't. I am simply suggesting that organic is better than conventional.

Yes, non-organic is really that bad, depending upon the specific food you are referring to.

B12 grows in your nasal mucosa. It is not something you need worry about in advance.

Dr D

[Balazs]

I will check it. But I am new in this, just as Chaser, so i think it is not so urgent.

[ChaserHUN]

Yeah, we have time to run low on B12, but I think I will do a check-up sometimes in late october when we will have time-off from school

[Balazs]

yeah, i agree

[ISETFIRE]

Great! That's rational thinking....