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Double Standards


Troy
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Thoughts anyone?

 

If you don't like being called skinny, why do you think women would like being told they're fat?

 

Exactly.

 

Furthermore, not everyone has the same attitudes about things. Troy has a good head on his shoulders and responds to irritation in a positive way. Not everyone is like that and unsolicted feedback on their appearance is just taken as a put down that they aren't ready to handle in a positive way.

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THOUGHT 2

This also gets my thoughts going towards this analogy, I can't stick my finger on where I saw it or read it, but it was something like how more and more people are finding it socially unacceptable to smoke indoors or in vehicles around other non-smokers. And its ok to say, "you should probably quit smoking, its bad for your health, or could you put that out... I don't smoke." When will the day be when its ok to say "you might wanna put down that BigMacHeartAttack sandwich so you don't die."

 

My daughter was working at McDonalds a while back and she was sitting outside smoking a cigarette. When a man approached her and said 'You shouldn't smoke because it will kill you". Well she responded, "You shouldn't eat at McDonalds, it will kill you" I thought that was great

 

As far as a person telling someone they need to lose weight. That is Totally Unnecessary. Don't you think over weight people know they need to lose weight? Everything about our society tells them on a daily bases that they are suppose to be thin. What I do is talk to them about nutrition and exercise without even having to bring up the weight issue. I ask if they would like to join me in one of my program or go to the gym with me.

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I find it hard to understand why it hurts ones feelings to be told the truth, to make it known that their are people concerned with your health
maybe because I'm a male

 

Have you told her your concerns are with her health, not the fact that her overweight or unfit body doesn't go with your fit, hot one? It's not a male/female thing, nobody likes their faults pointed out, whether they are physical or personality traits, whether they are absolute truths or personal opinion.

 

Without knowing her history with weight issues (if there are any) it's hard to give advice. She may be content where she is. She may have issues with her weight but something may be holding her back from doing anything about it (besides laziness or lack of motivation). Or she could be lazy. From what you have written, it looks like you have done everything you can to be helpful and supportive. Maybe now you need to step back and let her come to it on her own.

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People aren't the same.

 

Just because one person likes something doesn't mean everyone else will.

 

Just because one person handles a situation in a positive way doesn't mean other people will take it that way.

 

People who want to get along better and have more influence with people accept this.

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I was just scanning through these post and have to say. Too much about Fat Women. The last research data I came across said that there were 3% more over weight MEN than WOMEN in the US. But everyone always notices the women more. WHY???? Because of Vanity and Lust issues.

 

It was funny my husband would make cracks about over weight women, so I called him on it. I told him to open his eyes and take a good look around for one week. He agreed to take the challenge. Well after a week he came home and said to me "My God you are right, there is a whole lot of fat men out there and of course he had to be funny by saying, I sure wouldn't want that crawling on top of me" I couldn't help but laugh, however he learned his lesson, STOP JUDGING OTHERS.

 

Now don't get my wrong, my husband is not abusive to me at all, he would never say I am fat even when I was. He never says anything about my food even though he thinks I eat weird. He loves me for me.

 

Bottom line is, all of us need to learn to Not Judge people based on appearances. Only negative actions have grounds for judgement.

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My daughter was working at McDonalds a while back and she was sitting outside smoking a cigarette. When a man approached her and said 'You shouldn't smoke because it will kill you". Well she responded, "You shouldn't eat at McDonalds, it will kill you"

 

AWESOME.

 

Don't you think over weight people know they need to lose weight?

 

Coming from Wisconsin, one of the fatter states, geez, were known for dairy, cheese, brats, and beer, we have alot of overweight people and if you're proud of something you show it off right? Well their are alot of overweight people who love to show how fat they are by wearing excessively small swimsuits or clothing, both male and female. This to me tells me that they really don't know.

 

Everything about our society tells them on a daily basis that they are suppose to be thin.

 

I agree in some aspects, but the American society is based on meat, dairy, and heavily processed foods. So I wouldn't say everything in our society tells us to be thin when the majority of our foods publicized and consumed are the ones I just mentioned.

 

Have you told her your concerns are with her health, not the fact that her overweight or unfit body doesn't go with your fit, hot one?

 

C'mon now, I have said nothing about your latter comment. I've given her resources to which she understands the health implications of being unfit and overweight.

 

 

 

It's not a male/female thing, nobody likes their faults pointed out, whether they are physical or personality traits, whether they are absolute truths or personal opinion.

 

You're right, its not a male/female thing, however I LIKE when people point out my faults. I may overlook aspects of my appearance, manners, attitude, etc. that others see more clearly. How am I suppose to know if I don't notice it?

 

Or she could be lazy. From what you have written, it looks like you have done everything you can to be helpful and supportive. Maybe now you need to step back and let her come to it on her own.

 

Agreed...

 

People aren't the same. Just because one person likes something doesn't mean everyone else will.

 

I don't know exactly what you referring to but I do believe everyone likes being healthy, do they not?

 

Bottom line is, all of us need to learn to Not Judge people based on appearances.

 

I think a better statement would be we need to learn not to assume conclusions based on appearances. Everyone judges things... people, places, everything is judged... its human nature. What you draw from those judgments and how you choose to interpret them is a whole different story.

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Well their are alot of overweight people who love to show how fat they are by wearing excessively small swimsuits or clothing, both male and female. This to me tells me that they really don't know.

 

No need to be so judgmental man. Maybe they dress like that because it's more comfortable or they like the style. I often don't where a shirt because I get hot easy. Regardless, why does it matter what they wear? Should people who don't fit the standard of thin and beautiful have to cover up because you don't like seeing them?

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plc3 wrote:

Have you told her your concerns are with her health, not the fact that her overweight or unfit body doesn't go with your fit, hot one?

 

 

C'mon now, I have said nothing about your latter comment. I've given her resources to which she understands the health implications of being unfit and overweight.

 

The latter part was meant to be what she may be thinking, not an accusation of your intentions. Like I wrote before , we don't know a whole lot about the the situation. But, from your posts, you have become quite fit over the last year. I am assuming that you two were together before you started your current exercise/diet program? Maybe she could be thinking "I was good enough before when Troy wasn't so fit - why am I not good enough now?" Anyway, that came directly from my past experience and what I thought at the time.

 

You're right, its not a male/female thing, however I LIKE when people point out my faults. I may overlook aspects of my appearance, manners, attitude, etc. that others see more clearly. How am I suppose to know if I don't notice it?

 

Okay, I think I'm with you there partially. I think most people like when other people that they love and trust let them know if there are ways they can improve. That's a bit different than pointing out faults But once you point out a fault/suggest an improvement, lay off! ( ) Let her come to it

 

You didn't really answer this question: Does she say that she wants to lose weight and get healthy? Or is she just reading your books and eating your meals because you want her to?

 

 

No need to be so judgmental man. Maybe they dress like that because it's more comfortable or they like the style. I often don't where a shirt because I get hot easy. Regardless, why does it matter what they wear? Should people who don't fit the standard of thin and beautiful have to cover up because you don't like seeing them?

 

I think it is obvious that they like the style or find it more comfortable or they wouldn't wear the clothing. I don't think that Troy's point was that he shouldn't have to look at fat people in small clothing - it was that they don't realize they are fat. I disagree with this - I think they do realize they are fat, but they either don't care or they value comfort/style more than they care about their bodies being exposed.

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I've dated a few fat dudes, but I don't think I could date a chubby girl. Curves and whatnot are great, like a girl who's in good shape but isn't all skinny. Like a burlesque girl. I like that look. I think girls who are stick thin and have no muscle mass (*cough*VictoriaBeckham*cough*) are friggin gross to look at.

I just like healthy. Someone who shoves junk in their mouth all the time is very unattractive to me, a lot like smoking.

 

Last night my boyfriend and I cooked vegan together and it was really nice <3

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The latter part was meant to be what she may be thinking, not an accusation of your intentions. Like I wrote before , we don't know a whole lot about the the situation. But, from your posts, you have become quite fit over the last year. I am assuming that you two were together before you started your current exercise/diet program? Maybe she could be thinking "I was good enough before when Troy wasn't so fit - why am I not good enough now?" Anyway, that came directly from my past experience and what I thought at the time.

 

Good observation, I didn't take that into consideration.

 

oes she say that she wants to lose weight and get healthy? Or is she just reading your books and eating your meals because you want her to?

 

She reads because I suggest it or because I bought a couple books for her. She eats because shes hungry and theres nothing else to eat in my apartment but fresh tasting awesome food!

 

I think it is obvious that they like the style or find it more comfortable or they wouldn't wear the clothing. I don't think that Troy's point was that he shouldn't have to look at fat people in small clothing - it was that they don't realize they are fat. I disagree with this - I think they do realize they are fat, but they either don't care or they value comfort/style more than they care about their bodies being exposed.

 

Nail on the head.

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I don't think we should take it easy on women...we should target everyone who's overweight. After all...everyone suffers the economic/healthcare consequences of obesity...thats all excluding the extra amount of animal products overweight people purchase.

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When someone points out the fact that a person is overweight, it only makes that person feel worse about themselves. Nobody likes to have someone point out their flaws and criticize them. I don’t feel that it is up to me to change people into who I would like for them to become. I think more people are willing to change themselves when they know that there are people out there who are supportive and available when they are ready to change.

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You know Amy in theory, what you say makes 100% sense but hey, sometimes it lights a fire under someone's you know what.

 

You can take my family for example. My younger cousin (21) has been overweight for the majority of her life. She is prone to holding extra weight and her diet was poor and she didn't exercise at all.

 

My younger sister (19) made a comment to her about how she was looking a little bit heavy one day and she took it to heart. Because of that one lone comment, my cousin got her butt on the right track.

 

She started eating correctly, exercising for the first time in her life and took an overall upbeat outlook on life.

 

She must have lost over 35lbs in about 2 1/2 months and she looks FANTASTIC. I have never ever seen her so thin, so confident, so fully of energy and so wonderfully happy, ever.

 

Were her feelings hurt? Yes Did my sister feel horrible and still does? Yes Did it help her to hear it from someone she loves very much? A Big yes. Especially since my cousin constantly throws in everyone's face how my sister bashing her led her to do what she did and lose all the weight and become active.

 

I'm not advocating this approach but in my family's case it worked. I could not believe how such a small little innocuous comment by my sister helped to transform my cousins life.

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If people never feel bad about themselves they're less likely to ever change anything. I'd rather make people feel bad about themselves.

 

Think about why most people turn vegan...most people look at themselves and hate what they've been doing. Personally I wish everyone did that...that way the people that feel bad about themselves change...or at very minimum...they feel bad about themselves for something they should feel bad about. If only every meat eater felt terrible about what they were doing...this world would be a better place. Support people too much by handholding and they'll lower their own standards for themselves and everyone else will too...this is why slightly overweight is the new average size and the old average size it the new "too thin".

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Hmm... I guess I just have a hard time believing that any woman who is overweight can be unaware of it. I guess there may be some women who are honestly comfortable being overweight, but I think that many more who appear to be (e.g., by wearing revealing clothing) are not truly and deep down do feel bad about themselves.

 

I can't speak for men. But this is an area in which I do honestly think there are gender differences. Women tend to be very insecure about their weight and bodies, and the majority of women feel they need to lose weight. Most women feel bad about their bodies, even if they are not overweight. This is why I think that "pointing out flaws" regarding a woman's body will be counter-productive in most cases. It may work now and then, but I think it has a greater chance of making a woman feel worse than she does already, which can then be de-motivating. Feeling bad about oneself doesn't necessarily lead to change--it can lead to depression and feelings of helplessness that actually make it even harder to make any changes. In fact, I would argue that it's easier to be motivated to work at changes when you feel good about yourself, not when you feel bad. In order to make changes, one needs to feel one is worth the effort and that one is competent enough to successfully follow out a plan. This requires confidence, not insecurity.

 

I think that if a woman is overweight and doesn't appear to care or to have any plan to change, it is not because she does not realize that she is overweight or that she feels great being overweight and does not want to change. I think that she either has no idea what to do to lose weight or believes that it's out of her control. With so many fad diets out there, I truly think that many people are completely confused about how to lose weight and many have gotten the idea that "nothing works".

 

You obviously know this woman pretty well, so you should know what would work for her better than any of us would. However, I would say to everyone to be very careful about using criticism or making someone feel bad as a "motivator". If the person is not the type to be able to take those negative things and use them in a positive manner, it can be quite harmful. The person may already be well aware of the "flaw" and feel bad about out it even if s/he doesn't talk about it, and commenting on it can make her/him simply feel worse. And like I said, feeling bad about oneself can prevent change, not encourage it. So don't do it unless you already know the person is the type who truly doesn't mind negative comments and uses them positively.

 

Troy--back to your original question--can you explain the situation a little more? How overweight is this woman? Is she so heavy that she's obviously at risk of disease or is she just a few pounds over ideal? Do you have any idea how she feels about her body/weight?

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I think the most important thing is giving advice to people, rather than attacking them or pointing out flaws. I think it's reasonable to want to help people, especially with their health. But as I said in my earlier post, most people don't want advice on their health, so it's hard to know when to give advice and when not to. I generally give advice when the conversation is on that kind of topic, if someone is feeling unwell, or is talking about their weight etc, then I might suggest a thing or two. Otherwise I tend not to say "I think you're a bit thin, perhaps you should do XYZ" because I have no idea if they want to know that or not. In an ideal world, people would be secure enough to take that kind of thing as advice, rather than a criticism. And also in an ideal world, people would know how to phrase it in a considerate and genuinely helpful tone, rather than aggressively. I think people also should assess their own motivation for wanting to say these kinds of things. From my point of view, it's advice to people who want it, it's not because I am angry with them or frustrated - unless it's something which is affecting me at the time (smoke in my face) in which case I'd politely ask them to move or something. If you're just angry with someone because of how they look, or how they live, I don't think that's the best time to talk to them about it.

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I definitely think its more important to give good advice too but good advice is everywhere these days. Relatively decent diets(in terms of quantity) are already everywhere...if people won't listen to that they need to be discouraged about themselves. A lot of people on this planet starve due to our desire to eat...and the environment suffers from our excessive use of it...health costs are so high to the point that many can't afford any. So really we all suffer from what overweight people cause. Its nothing close to a single issue problem. If someone makes my life harder I have no problem making there life harder too. If they won't change I can at least make them not like looking at themselves(man or woman).

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People aren't the same. Just because one person likes something doesn't mean everyone else will.

 

I don't know exactly what you referring to but I do believe everyone likes being healthy, do they not?

 

 

I meant that not everybody is the same. It isn't safe to assume that if you do/do not have a problem being told something that other people do/do not have a problem with it.

 

You have your head on straight with your looks. You respond to an irritating unsolicited comment about your looks as if it is a challenge. Other people just get hurt and feel intruded upon.

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You know Amy in theory, what you say makes 100% sense but hey, sometimes it lights a fire under someone's you know what.

 

Maybe 1 time out of 10, the rest of the time it just makes people more resistant and it often ruins somebody's day. People know if they are fat or not. Being fat carries with it a bit of social stigma. Some people handle it by putting it out of their mind, because they are having trouble facing it. When they get unsolicted comments about their weight it doesn't spur them into action it is just a painful reminder to them that they have a social stigma.

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If people never feel bad about themselves they're less likely to ever change anything. I'd rather make people feel bad about themselves.

 

I don't mean this like the rude rhetorical question that it sounds like, but why is it any of your business to encourage them to change?

 

If it is something that directly effects your life or other lives, like veganism, family planning I can understand that. However someone carrying a few extra pounds effects only them, at least __directly__. The way I see it is nobody's business but their own.

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If people never feel bad about themselves they're less likely to ever change anything. I'd rather make people feel bad about themselves.

 

Really? What proof do you have? When I feel bad about myself I tend to lie around crying and not eating. Hardly the positive change I'm going for. Most people I know are better at makes changes when they feel good about themselves. Feeling bad about oneself isn't going to help most people change, being empowered and feeling able to change will.

 

Anyways there is nothing wrong with being 'fat'!

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