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Double Standards


Troy
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My parents are bad people. They are healthy and active. Have good jobs, volunteer, and have no chronic illness. They use the medical system less then most people I know(of all ages and sizes.) But they are bad people because Zack doesn't like their bodies.

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I have no problem telling people their fat. I told this girl once and she started to cry. Saying to a girl, "You are fat," is the same thing as saying, "The sky is blue."

 

Not on planet Earth in North America in the year 2008. I'm guessing you are being sarcastic.

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Yeah, I guess I am a bad person too, 'cause I am fat.

 

I think it is safe to say that obesity typically goes hand in hand with ill health. Not always though, as pointed out by WL. I guess I am in the same situation as WLs parents. I rarely go to the doctor - over the last few years my only visits have been due to injuries from playing soccer. Go figure. In any case, I work a full time professional job plus a part time job - I pay for my healthcare through work benefits, not you.

 

I encourage you (potter and josh) to keep telling women "their" fat. I also encourage any women out there being told they're fat by these two to give them a beat down. Please post pictures afterward.....

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Right and wrong isn't the same as what works(well) and what does not. Weight is about the second comparison.

 

Each breath we take effects other people, but moving away from extremes, somebody else's business is only your business when what they are doing effects you directly.

 

I think the U.S. Constitution has something about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If someone is getting all of that by being a few pounds overweight while they focus on other stuff, it isn't anyone else's business.

 

It is reasonable to approach a close friend to express that you are concerned about their health or approach a SO to say that their appearance is starting to change the relationship for you.

 

However, if you do that and they don't change, that is their business. If you don't like it, you leave the relationship and it is their own fault if they don't like the results.

 

It is one thing to go out of your way motivated kindness to offer unsolicited advice.

 

However, if you offer unsolicited comments about someone's personal business out of a sense of it not being right to you, you risk that other person feeling that it is right to remind you of what isn't your business and then that person feeling that it is okay to ignore you.

 

Respect is a two way street. If you want it, you have to give it. If someone tells you that you aren't respecting them, chances are you probably aren't.

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I feel like this thread is getting a little hostile as we have opinions on the far right and far left of the spectrum. I tend to "feel" the same way Potter does yet I don't think I could tell someone I care about that they are fat. There are exceptions to every generalization and I think its best not to you use absolute statements when referencing people who are over/under weight. A general statement that I think we all can agree on is that our society as a whole is overweight, which has a direct influence in rising health care costs, which negatively impacts the vast majority of our society. Likewise, the causes of obesity are countless so stating that its wrong to be overweight sounds a bit ignorant without knowing why the person is overweight. Potter will testify that even by drastically reducing calories he was unable to lose muscle mass. Thus science doesn't always give us the answers on how to lose weight. Science says if you consume "A" and use "B" per day you will either gain or lose weight. This is rarely the case and alot of us know this already. Science gives us a base to start from but there are way too many variables to consider for this to be an accurate equation.

 

People react differently to different words, tones, expressions, and the sender has to be critical and knowledgeable of his/her receiver before the delivery of his/her message to be truly effective. What I've learned from this thread is that each person has a different response when being approached about a weight issue. Some people need to be told others do not, some people need positive motivation others need to be constructively criticized. Some need to find it within themselves to make a change and noone can help them to do that. Its a vast world and we don't all think alike, have the same feelings, have acquired the same knowledge... lets just try be understanding of each individuals feelings.

 

Thanks for all your replies, but I think this thread should end here.

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Potter will testify that even by drastically reducing calories he was unable to lose muscle mass. Thus science doesn't always give us the answers on how to lose weight. Science says if you consume "A" and use "B" per day you will either gain or lose weight. This is rarely the case and alot of us know this already. Science gives us a base to start from but there are way too many variables to consider for this to be an accurate equation.

 

Your lasted quoted sentence contradicts your earlier sentences and I agree with it. Weight control is about calories in versus calories out. I think you are right that there are variables to account for and that explains why people's experience doesn't match science. The science isn't wrong, people just miss accounting for all of the variables.

 

I was overweight for years and thought that I could not do anything about it. I blamed my trouble on having a slow burning system ( true ), not being able to exercise a lot ( true ) and being older (true). Yet, last year I lost 48 lbs pounds by being diligent in counting my calories every day and writing it all down.

 

I ate everything I ate when I was heavier, I just ate less. It was near painless and I lost a lot of fat. A lot of people on the web claim that isn't possible and that the science of "calories in versus calories out" is wrong.

 

Yet, I did it. It is my belief it worked for me because I accounted for the variables most people don't account for instead of blaming science.

 

As an aside, as with spending money, you really do not have an accurate idea of your habits unless you track it in writing.

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Its my business because I can't afford health care largely due to fat people

 

Have you ever researched the numbers? Can you explain how it all works and connect to a dollar amount how it increases your insurance? I don't think you can.

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I don't mean this like the rude rhetorical question that it sounds like, but why is it any of your business to encourage them to change?

 

If it is something that directly effects your life or other lives, like veganism, family planning I can understand that. However someone carrying a few extra pounds effects only them, at least __directly__. The way I see it is nobody's business but their own.

 

 

YAY I'M EXCITED:)

 

Its my business because I can't afford health care largely due to fat people(I was one myself and if I stayed that way I would have been at fault eventually too)...and many millions more can't either. Its my business because of supply and demand...many people eat twice as much as they should...the increases the demand while the supply can't quite keep up. They produce more waste and hurt OUR environment more than most. If they want it to be their own business then they should grow all their own food...don't fly in planes(since they increase fuel demand)...get private health care thats non subsidized...and stay at home. Society is becoming more and more accommodating to those that are obese...this means larger more expensive seats are required in movie theaters, cars...hell...our medium sized clothes are even bigger than medium sized clothes should be. This issue does not only effect the overweight...it hurts everyone.

 

well said.

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It was almost a month ago that my boyfriend told me that he wanted me to lose weight. He didn't tell me he thinks I'm fat. He told me he thinks I'm beautiful. He told me he thought I would feel better if I lost some weight. Did it hurt to hear him say that? Absolutely. Was it news to me? Absolutely not. Can I appreciate how hard it was for him to say that to me? Definitely. Did it motivate me to do something. Yes.

 

I want to grow old with him. I want to be able to keep up with him and his 11 year old athlete son. I love being with him in part because of the healthy lifestyle he leads. How fair is it of me to enjoy the benefits of his healthy choices and not offer him up the same possibility?

 

Ever since I signed up for the biggest loser contest at my gym and started taking my diet and exercise really really seriously, people around me have started changing their habits too. One co-worker went back on her LA Weight Loss plan and made it to the gym for cardio because I inspired her. My parents have significantly decreased their dairy/meat intake because they see my thriving on a plant-based diet. When I gave up sugar another friend was inspired and did it too. We can inspire change by setting the example. Or as Gandhi said, "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

 

As I was typing the post, my boyfriend, sitting in an orchestra pit, texted me to say "Je t'aime ma belle pamplemousse." Which translated means "I love you my pretty grapefruit." What I want to know is... was he calling me fat?

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Ok.... I am glad this thread was reopened because I did want to throw in some more thoughts on the subject.

 

Troy, it sounds like this is a girl that you are dating or that you care about.

 

About a year and a half ago, before I got back into training, my ex-boyfriend "hinted" that he wanted me to lose weight. I wasn't even fat, but I did need some toning. This is Southern California.... standards are much different here. A size 6/8 might as well be a 14 as far as some people are concerned.

 

Anyways, him and I broke up and while I wasn't dating anyone I got back into a Size 3 and acheived my ideal physique. I got recertified as a trainer and have had a lot of huge opportunities come my way.... this was all largely due in part to his pushing me to get in ultimate shape while we were together.

 

He has tried to rekindle the romance several times... and here's the thing... I will always resent him for not accepting me as I was.

 

Some of you guys have no idea how important it is to feel accepted by the man you are dating. Next to trust I would say acceptance runs a close second. You could risk BREAKING her by what you feel is an innocent comment.

 

So many great things ahve come my way since the ex "encouraged" me to get in ultimate shape and I have told him I'm greatful for his push. Yet in the back of my mind I can never truly forgive him for not accepting me as I was. It's just something to think about if you care about this girl.

 

And for all you blatant, tough-love tell-it-like-it-is guys... I feel you really don't truly have a grasp on understanding women. I kinda think that being blatant and saying "screw her feelings"... is a lazy way out... because finding a way to be diplomatic or hinting or finding a kinder, gentler approach is more DIFFICULT than brutal honesty. Most women fall in love with men that make then feel cherished, beautiful and wonderful exactly as they are. You can have exactly what you want if you find an approach that empowers her... and doesen't make her feel rejected by you. Because even if you didn't mean it that way...she will most likely see it as rejection, and its almost impossible to turn around.

 

There.... I got my two cents in

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If you want to accept someone for who they are you need to do that before you even date. Guys shouldn't ridicule someone for their size if they were that size when they met...and visa versa. You should be able to be a little impersonal sometimes in a relationship as well though. For example...if someone I'm not dating does something stupid I'm gonna point it out...someone I'm dating doesn't get a free pass because we're dating.

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I think that being totally honest is different to being "brutal" about it, I feel like I am pretty much totally honest with everybody, when questioned, and I try my best to be 100% honest in a relationship. People being overweight is not a concern of mine unless I can see a problem being caused by it (health, really excessive eating). There's a difference between being overweight, and being obese etc. Some get a bit flabby through inactivity, not by eating crazily. I wouldn't dream of telling my partner to lose weight because of how it looked, it'd have to get to the stage where I was worried about them before I said something. I totally agree with veggie princess that you should care about people's feelings, but I also think that the truth is one of the most important things there is, and whilst it should be phrased in the most tactful and useful way possible, it shouldn't be distorted, in my opinion

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And for all you blatant, tough-love tell-it-like-it-is guys... I feel you really don't truly have a grasp on understanding women

 

That is likely true.

 

My gut feeling is that those comments are simply a matter of getting sucked into the internet and the mentality of keeping a dumb joke running.

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And for all you blatant, tough-love tell-it-like-it-is guys... I feel you really don't truly have a grasp on understanding women

 

That is likely true.

 

My gut feeling is that those comments are simply a matter of getting sucked into the internet and the mentality of keeping a dumb joke running.

 

Its not about understanding women...its about being honest. Its not my problem is someones got thin skin...man or woman. Trust me...its no joke...I've told many women they were fat...even when I was big...when they'd say I was being a hypocrite I told them no I'm not...we're both fat.

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I have tried alot of the tactics mentioned... making healthy meals only for her to occasionally enjoy them with me and then go and indulge in fast food, working my schedule around hers so she can come workout with me only to have her go a couple times and almost impossible to get her out of bed to go consistently because shes "too tired" in the morning, buy her books that she reads but has no impact on her actions, lead by example which doesn't do anything, words of encouragement that she blows off, and never have I mentioned that I am displeased with her physique. I think its a lost cause. Motivation to better yourself, has to come from within, I'm convinced of that.

 

Potter,

 

I know you like to skim posts and only pick out the things that support your own argument, but if you read the above quote that Troy wrote... he obviously cares about this women.

 

So I was trying to point out, that if he does care, he could potentially lose her EMOTIONALLY forever if he uses a brutally honest approach about her weight.

 

If you are saying that you don't differentiate between someone walking down the street, the grocery clerk, or someone you are dating, possibly having sex with and getting emotionally close to....then you are either completely full of BS, are still single... or if you are involved in a loving relationship... for Gods sake, hold onto that girl... because she is a very RARE breed if she always accepts your brutally honest, tell-it-like-it-is, no holds bar, spare no feelings approach....

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who closed it and why?

 

I closed it, I felt the topic was getting a bit too heated and I thought it would be good to give the subject a cool down period.

 

Hi Troy. Thanks for the 411. For the next time just leave a note in the thread before you lock it. As I wrote in VPs thread, I don't have a problem with threads being locked.

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veggieprincess...I myself am obviously different. I don't date people I can't be honest with no matter what the issue. I obviously like to argue and mostly everyone knows that before they get involved with me. And due to that the people I've met don't argue with me that much since someone that would argue with me about these things wouldn't date me. Anyhow I don't think anyone should be so disconnected to their own reality. If you can't walk around wearing a shirt describing who/what you are you shouldn't feel comfortable being yourself. If you aren't comfortable being yourself then change it. If you say someones fat and they don't care thats fine...if they know there fat...don't like it and do nothing about it then they need to change for themselves. Nobody here would raise a kid with bad grades in school and not tell them what they need to do to change that would they???? Its the same thing...it something you control. People want to act like fat isn't something you can control...and thats its something you're forced to live with.

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Hey Troy;

 

Sorry if the thread was seeming a little bit tense. It seems like you honestly did not understand what was going on and that you were making an honest attempt to learn how the other people involved might be seeing it.

 

Good Luck, let us know how it works out.

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