10 year old gives birth

[Richard]

I don't think all prisoners should be killed, some people will be in there for robbery or something, I don't think they need to die necessarily. But I can see the point of killing repeat murderers / rapists / torturers.

[alison]

That would make you a killer. Death Penalty doesn't deter crime, neither does the horrific experience of prison. People committing crimes do not expect to be caught. Then there is the crimes of desperation that so many people are driven to due to socio economic factors. I agree, it is very scary to come across these viewpoints.

[beforewisdom]

That would make you a killer. Death Penalty doesn't deter crime, neither does the horrific experience of prison. .

 

I don't think he and the others are being serious. I think they are trying to make fun for themselves by saying something extreme, by cheering themselves on, and watching other people respond to it.

[DV]

You boys are being very bad again.

[Guest]

The death penalty doesn't deter crime because we don't use it enough and prison isn't that scary compared to prisons overseas where the death penalty and long sentences do deter crime. One thing you can't argue though is that the death penalty does prevent people from re offending....at least 10% of the time..maybe 20% of the time but I'm just playing it safe.

[xveganjoshx]

For you libs who are slow to get the facts:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/11/AR2007061100406.html

 

"A series of academic studies over the last half-dozen years that claim to settle a once hotly debated argument _ whether the death penalty acts as a deterrent to murder. The analyses say yes."

[Guest]

Great link..now all we need to do is shorten the wait period. One thing I don't like is waiting in lines and I don't wish that on anyone...especially not people on death row.

[Laura]

I don’t believe in the death penalty, primarily because I don’t think the government should have the power to kill. Those who can afford good legal counsel receive the death penalty less often than those who can’t. And those whose victims are white receive the death penalty more often than those whose victims are minorities. I don’t lean completely to the left on every issue, but in my opinion the death penalty is a barbaric, outdated practice and the sooner we do away with it the better. I don’t think the recidivism rate is any higher for those who get life in prison without parole than for those who are lethally injected.

[Zack]

I don’t believe in the death penalty, primarily because I don’t think the government should have the power to kill. Those who can afford good legal counsel receive the death penalty less often than those who can’t. And those whose victims are white receive the death penalty more often than those whose victims are minorities. I don’t lean completely to the left on every issue, but in my opinion the death penalty is a barbaric, outdated practice and the sooner we do away with it the better. I don’t think the recidivism rate is any higher for those who get life in prison without parole than for those who are lethally injected.

 

So what do you propose is done with someone who would be sentenced to the death penalty? Pay for them to spend their life in prison?

[Guest]

If the govt. doesn't get the choice who does??? I would rather the victims family get the choice but I think most here would be even more bothered by what they would do. If given the chance I bet most murder victim family members would be far more brutal than the govt. could ever be...that would cause even more complaints but I'd love for it to be that way. It would be a lot cheaper and we wouldn't need to waste money giving council to those that are obviously guilty to the point that a court case would be completely useless.

[Katabatic]

Pay for them to spend their life in prison?

[Wobbly Lifter]

They should fry him like a quesadilla.

 

racist

[Zack]

They should fry him like a quesadilla.

 

racist

 

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x202/zmjohnston/cold.gif

[Laura]

Court costs and the cost of the appeals process usually make capital cases more expensive than non-capital cases. Because of this, it's actually cheaper to keep someone in a maximum security single cell for 40 years than to carry out the death penalty. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

 

Anyway, this article is really sad. This is the part I thought was most disturbing:

 

"If convicted the illegal immigrant could face life in prison, a $50,000 fine ,or both. Whether he ever serves anytime behind bars will be up to the judge who if he places him on probation, could deport him."

 

A fine??????? For raping a 10 year old girl????????? This guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. Deportation would be a huge mistake, as he would either continue to do this in his own country or find his way back to the U.S. and re-offend. The immigration issue aside, it is tragic that someone who commits this kind of crime could get off with probation or a fine.

[Aaron]

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

[DV]

The problem with our whole system is that we're too big and anonymous. SO MANY ideas don't work once a group of humans breaches the 150 member point (that is the point that you don't have consistent social contact with each other - or so I've read. If you don't believe it then make up your own number, like 100,000 or so). All of the ideas we talk about, much of our philosophies and knowledge are based on a time when there were LESS people in our societies. Every day that goes by, we add more, and we find ourselves in a new situation. The old arguments are no longer valid.

[Zack]

Court costs and the cost of the appeals process usually make capital cases more expensive than non-capital cases. Because of this, it's actually cheaper to keep someone in a maximum security single cell for 40 years than to carry out the death penalty. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

 

 

Bullet to the head isn't too expensive.

 

There shouldn't BE those costs for someone that has committed a crime severe enough to warrent the death penalty.

[DV]

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

 

Thank you Aaron. I think anyone who believes in the death penalty should be willing to kill, just as I think anyone who eats animals should be willing to kill their meal. With that said, I do believe that I could kill a convicted killer - but not as readily as some people talk about it. I don't believe in the death sentence as a deterrent but I do believe it can wipe out some evil and some useless human protoplasm. But who is to judge?

[xveganjoshx]

Bullet to the head isn't too expensive.

[VeganDude]

I almost can't believe all the things I'm reading.

I'll quote myself : Look beyond the lenght of your nose!

 

I think anyone who believes in the death penalty should be willing to kill, just as I think anyone who eats animals should be willing to kill their meal.

I also think someone who believes in the death penalty is far more likely to actually commit murder. It's obvious they think some people should be murdered, so that would make the line much thinner.

 

As for the link posted at the top of this page:

2006:

Murder Rate in Death Penalty States: 5.9

Murder Rate in Non-death Penalty States: 4.22

Percent Difference:40%

Source: FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2006 (Published Sept, 2007)

 

These are facts Josh. Maybe you should get them straight before calling people slow. It does not make you look good.

 

Look, the facts are very clear. Also when looking at other countrys. The death penalty does not work.

Seems like propaganda does though.

[Zack]

I almost can't believe all the things I'm reading.

I'll quote myself : Look beyond the lenght of your nose!

 

I think anyone who believes in the death penalty should be willing to kill, just as I think anyone who eats animals should be willing to kill their meal.

I also think someone who believes in the death penalty is far more likely to actually commit murder. It's obvious they think some people should be murdered, so that would make the line much thinner.

 

As for the link posted at the top of this page:

2006:

Murder Rate in Death Penalty States: 5.9

Murder Rate in Non-death Penalty States: 4.22

Percent Difference:40%

Source: FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2006 (Published Sept, 2007)

 

These are facts Josh. Maybe you should get them straight before calling people slow. It does not make you look good.

 

Look, the facts are very clear. Also when looking at other countrys. The death penalty does not work.

Seems like propaganda does though.

 

 

Are you saying that the reason that the murder rate is lower is because the death penalty does not exist in those states?

 

The states with the lowest homocide rates (and no death penalty) generally have a higher standard of living. The states with the highest homocide rates are just the opposite. There are 12 states without the death penalty and 38 with the death penalty. The comparison is not very fair due to socioeconomic, education, and other factors. You cannot say that the reason homocide rates are lower is because those states do not have the death penalty.

 

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/MurderRateGraph.gif

 

Obviously you can see that the states with extreme homocide rates generally fit this mold. Many of the death penalty states are not that much more extreme than the non-death penalty states.

[VeganEssentials]

I've tried to stay out of this one for a while, but it's tough to not chime in.

 

While I don't necessarily agree with the "shoot everyone" theory ( ), I do think that some people are beyond redemption, and I've yet to see what good it does to keep someone in jail for life who has done reprehensible things and has no remorse for their actions. Keeping someone locked up permanently neither offers rehabilitation, nor does it reduce the financial burden of paying to keep someone alive and semi-isolated who would most likely do the same thing again if turned loose. I'm at a loss to explain what I think should be done, but I DO know that American prisons are not deterrent enough to prevent people from doing really bad things, and that just keeps the cycle going. I mean, really, when you can get into a place, still have the option to socialize for the majority of your day, buy/sell/use illegal substances (which are routinely smuggled in), and simply pass time without being made to pay a penalty for what you've done, something is broken. Yes, there are SOME people who are honestly sorry for their crimes and will re-work their lives to be better, but let's not kid ourselves and defend the bulk of prisoners who have done wrong to get themselves into jail. As I've said in a previous discussion about prisoners, I find it ing when people are more in favor of prisoner's rights/issues/comfort than those of victims and their families. Unfortunately, I have heard enough over the years where people want to defend those in jail moreso than admit that the vast majority are guilty of some offense and deserve to be punished. To me, that attitude is just as frightening as the "kill 'em all" theory that people have gotten worked up over.

 

If you're a small-scale crack/meth/smack/ect. dealer, do I think you deserve to be killed? No, but I think that you deserve more than a slap on the wrist if you go back to doing it again and again after your first offense. Make it a REAL punishment to go to jail if people keep doing the same small offenses over and over even if they're low-level on the list of priorities. Take away frills like entertainment, isolate people for extended periods of time, no working out, no socialization, and finally, people might stop doing the same damned things over and over. Besides, cutting down on all the comforts for repeat offenders, even small-time ones, could do something to reduce overall costs.

 

If you're a bigger-time offender, doing things like armed robbery and the like, one chance is all you should get. If you get out, get it together, or the next time you get caught it should make you so miserable for so long, you'll spend every waking moment regretting your choices. If someone gets caught holding up a store or person more than once, why the hell would you expect that they're going to bother to change after the 2nd time they were caught? Seriously, let's make it so that once is ENOUGH for people who are doing violent crime. Don't kid yourselves - if someone is not penitent and changing their ways after one bad turn, why on earth would you believe that they're likely to change after the next time they're caught? Make life for 2nd time offenders of serious crimes so miserable in prison, if they make it out again, they'd have to be brain damaged to believe that crime is still an option.

 

Finally, if you're a violent offender, read: murderer, rapist, or something similar, why on earth does someone of that nature deserve a 2nd chance at all? After all, their victims didn't get a 2nd chance to avoid their fate. Why disrespect the victims of the crime by saying that, while convict X may have decided to shoot a man over the contents of his wallet, that his family/wife/children should have to respect the fact that this man will be taken care of for the end of his days, maybe even given a chance to get out while still relatively young, because we have to expect that everyone will rehabilitate? Are we to honestly believe that every offender who is caught is doing a violent crime for THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR LIVES, and they just got unlucky when they were caught? That everyone is good inside and will come to their senses after being "punished" by the system? Come on, let's not be naive about it. That's disrespectful to anyone who is law-abiding and chooses not to rob, rape, kill or destroy the lives of others by giving every violent offender the benefit of the doubt. For these people, I think that there should be a greater chance of them receiving eye-for-an-eye treatment when there is irrefutable evidence of guilt in a crime that has killed someone or damaged their lives beyond what anyone should suffer through. How do we determine who should go and who should be allowed to live? That's beyond my scope, but I think that a greater threat of the "ultimate punishment" SHOULD be a better deterrent than it is. Why does the death penalty not scare people more? Because, only a tiny fraction of a percentage of those convicted of murder will ever be put on death row, and for those few that are, how many can drag on appeals and work on technicalities to keep themselves there for 5, 10, 20 years or more? There's no real threat with the death penalty for most, because you've got a better chance of pricking yourself on a needle in a haystack than of being put to death for your crime, even if you take another life. If there is irrefutable evidence of guilt of someone murdering another in anything other than an act of self-defense, then I say we should either make that threat MUCH greater, lock that person in solitary confinement for the rest of their days (if you kill someone for a quick buck, why would it be unjust or cruel to keep the perpetrator in a 10x10 box for the rest of their lives after what they've done?) or, give the prisoner the chance to decide their own fate. Put them in permanent solitary, and offer themselves the chance to have themselves put down if they can't take it. I wouldn't lose sleep over a murderer choosing his own death as preferable to being alone in a barren cell for as long as he's alive.

 

Again, that's for those who have absolute proof of their crime, caught with the "smoking gun" or something that leaves no doubt in anyone's mind as to what their violent crime is. Of course, there are unfortunate casualties who will be jailed on bad evidence, but just as well, there are terrible people that are allowed to get off on techicalities that still walk among us. Nothing is perfect, and while it would be nice if only the truly guilty were jailed, there will always be problems. However, let's get back to the point of not kidding ourselves and believing that any more than the tiniest fraction of those incarcerated are somehow there on false charges.

 

I've known a handful of people victimized by violent crimes, even gotten to know a person who was shot and killed in his store because a couple of thugs decided they wanted cigarette money and the gun "accidentally went off" when they were holding him up at his restaurant. I don't feel any empathy for offenders like that - if you're going to play the game and you know the rules, you'd damned well better be ready to pay the ultimate price when you do something so ing to another human being that it kills them or can possibly scar them for life mentally and physically. Let's not make excuses for the actions of the offenders, and rather, make it so that people would be afraid of consequences so that they will choose the correct path rather than head down the wrong way. Everyone has an opportunity to make a good life for themselves - whether one chooses to do so or turn to crime is their own decision, but nobody is born to fail at every opportunity and can't get themselves ahead by walking the straight and narrow and steering clear of turning into a criminal who affects the lives of others.

 

I could go on and on about this, but I'll cut it here. I just get REALLY pissed off when excuses are made for the sake of criminals to give them privilieges or rights that their victims did not have the chance for.

[Marcina]

I know. A few of my close friends have told me about their horrifying rape experiences. Basically all the happened was a restraining order. I myself was sexually abused, but not raped, thank God.. and actually tried to get the police involved, but my mom begged me not to since the guy that did it was her friend. She said "he didn't know what he was doing" since he was drunk. That's still no excuse to feel up a 15 year old. It's sick, man.

They're changing the age of consent from 14 to 16, but I still don't think it'll make a difference, or at least much of one. It's really painful and embarassing to go through a sexual abuse ordeal. Basically everyone wants to keep quiet about it. Women need to feel more empowered and speak up about it. They say that out of all the women you know.. 5 of them will have been a victim of sexual abuse.

It's terrifying to have to go to the police and relive the experience, just so the guy can walk away and do it to someone else.

[Ping]

prisons overseas where the death penalty and long sentences do deter crime.

Where exactly?