VeganEssentials

So - Kudos to all of you guys who can respond politely!!!!

Trust me, it hasn't been the easiest. It can be funny how sometimes it is more challenging to communicate with people who share a similar mindset than it is to communicate with those who are against your beliefs. This is definitely one of those cases that can be trying to one's patience...

AllIveEverTouched, how do you know I did not deliver my message intelligently?

AllIveEverTouched never said that you didn't deliver it intelligently. Where was this said? I read the reply twice and couldn't find any evidence of this.

Can you deliver your message intelligently?

Again, nobody questioned your intelligence or that you cannot deliver a message intelligently. They only question the way that you deliver it with words and emotion that make people unsure of what you're trying to say due to your tone and the way to misinterpret what people reply with, such as how you just did with AllIveEverTouched. That's the only thing in question here, but you seem to want it to be something other than what it actually is and avoid the actual subject.

When I came to this forum, I had no idea about I am going to be insulted and get attack by some supposedly AR people.

People only developed a hostility when they perceived that you were attacking them for not living up to your own standards. Again, this may be a communication issue with interpretation, but you must now see, the majority of people believe that you need to find a better way to speak here that does not make it look like you're attacking us first.

but where is fruit of supposedly intelligent people who can deliver their messages so effectively?

Many of us take our message out to the streets and other areas where we're spreading it to non-vegans in hopes of converting them, not "preaching to the choir" and attacking them because they don't get as openly angry as you do. I don't try to convert other vegans to be angry, but rather try to convert non-vegans to go vegan. Big difference for what will accomplish more.

I hope you are smart enough to know what fruit means.

Again, you state that people who do not agree with you may be too stuipd to know what you're talking about. THIS is why people get mad at what you say, because you speak in a very condescending and angry tone when someone does not immediately agree with you and take the exact stance that you do. This is, in my opinion, NOT a good activist tactic and I believe I'd do more harm than good by acting in this manner. Maybe you've had better luck, but do not expect people to respect you when you show such disrespect to others. Very, very rude of you.

It is so interesting to know how some people's imagination work.

Yes, it truly is...

I went to a chiro for about 5 sessions after spraining my lower back. I think it helped speed the healing a bit, but it was something that would have taken care of itself naturally so it probably wasn't necessary. Though, I wanted to get back to lifting as quickly as possible, so maybe it was good.

Some people I've known say great things about chiro work, some say it's all a crock...definitely varying opinions out there. The work I had done was pretty simple - it was basically some contorted cracking of my back in about 5 different positions (which took about 3-4 minutes tops) followed by my lying on a table and getting an icy-hot type ultrasound to break up scar tissue in the injured area and that was it. There's not much "touching" involved - you lay on the weird table for the cracking, they'll push down on you a few times near your hip, then wrap your arms around like a pretzel and push a few more times for basic rehab stuff and that's about it. Like I said, should be about a half dozen crackings, takes a REALLY short time, then they'll probably pass you on to one of the technicians who just to the non-cracking stuff if need be and that's about it.

I'm very skeptical in the aspect that according to any chiro, you ALWAYS need work (pretty much because nobody has perfect spinal alignment), but if you're injured it is worth a shot. I wouldn't go to one if I wasn't feeling pain, so that pretty well sums up how I feel about the need to go to one!

Ryan

There are many ways to promote veganism and work for the animals, no question about it. I think that what people often have as a problem with your posts, Violet, is that your tone often sounds accusatory to people here who are already working for the animals' sake rather than directing it at people who aren't doing anything (typically non-vegans or those who are apathetic in general regarding the cruel treatment that happens everyday). It may simply be difficulties in communication, but when people who are already involved in work for the animals feel that someone is telling them they're not doing enough it isn't anything they want to hear. Again, this is probably due to communication issues, but understand that how you interpret something isn't the same as how others will. Also, when people present thoughts and questions rather than extreme outrage it does not mean they don't agree with you (such as J discussing cultural differences making a difference in how other nations treat dogs). J was not saying it was acceptable to treat dogs poorly and eat them, he was merely stating the possibility that because dogs aren't treated as companions as often in other areas of the world they may be considered as food just as a chicken or cow normally is. Saying such a thing does not mean he believes that you are wrong or that people who mistreat dogs are correct, but he's simply posing a question to analyze why the problem exists, because when you can identify the root of it you can work more effectively against the problem. Again, this wasn't a justification for why it happens, but a way to see it from their side to analyze the problem. When you can understand the enemy better, you have an advantage and can fight back with a greater response. Simply going into a rage and accusing those of not being in a rage as well of not caring is not accomplishing anything, so please, write in a way that does not sound accusatory to those who are already working for a more compassionate world, and understand that there are many ways to approach the same end goal. We respect your right to feel outrage, and even if we do not show it the same as you, we all feel it as well.

I know this has been said before, but perhaps a new way of wording it can shed some additional light on this.

Ryan

Hey, Crash!

The Noni C-Plex had a mineral-derived calcium, but it is no longer in production so unfortunately that item is gone for good. If I recall correctly, the toothpastes had calcium carbonate sourcing as well, as I know that the ones we carry from them are completly vegan because all sourcing for such vitamins is mineral-based. I haven't checked into the shampoo with honey, but obviously that one isn't vegan (many companies don't consider honey to be an "animal ingredient" and do not list it as such, unfortunately). Other than honey or beeswax sneaking into an item, quite possibly all other NG products are safe for consumtion, but if in doubt, check it out! The lesson I always pass on - when you contact a company, ask to speak with a chemist. They're often the only people who can give accurate information on ingredient sourcing (they take pride in their knowledge and don't have pre-formed scripts that they read answer from as most customer service people do), so they're the best resource for contact when you investigate ingredients!

I had an environmental issue with Arbonne. I ordered 3 lipsticks & received my order in a box that was 1 foot by 1 foot. To make matters worse, it had some kind of pumped-in silver covered foam that wasn't recycleable. I was so angry at the excessive packaging I returned the order with a letter stating why. Holy crap, if you are going to sell small items, have the correct packaging on hand to do so. Excessive packaging is a pet peeve of mine.

Never heard of Arbonne doing that one before, but it doesn't surprise me much. They're a multi-level-marketing program first and foremost, and the veganism aspect is quite secondary once you start looking into how they work. When we were considering selling their line (before being told that you have to operate as an agent rather than being able to just offer it in a store - how stupid is that?!? It was all about making sure the people up the ladder got their percentage for all items you bought and sold!) we used to get these really irritating emails from the local sales director in our area about how rich everyone was going to get from selling Arbonne. It all came down to that the only thing they spoke of when we'd get on their terrible email lists was money, no mention of ethics or anything else. It was money, money, money that we'd hear about but nobody once seemed to have a concern as to what they were selling, only that they wanted to convince everyone that you'd get rich from it. It became sort of a coincidentally-vegan Mary Kay operation of sorts once we were exposed to it, and that's not the kind of stuff I want to offer. Once we started to see it this way we scrapped all plans to offer the line and that was that. Too bad, though - some of their cosmetics seemed like they were decent quality, but when they put you through the ringer and want to make sure that you fall into your place on the ladder of who-gets-their-cut-from-your-sales it loses the attraction.

Ecco Bella makes an entire line of cosmetic brushes that are synthetic rather than animal hair, and from what I hear they're quite good (I don't have much use for them myself )

As for the Nature's Gate lotions that may not be vegan, do you have information on which ones are said to be containing animal ingredients? This is news to me - I've researched many of their items and have not found much in the way of any of their items being non-vegan, so I wonder if this is true or simply a misunderstanding of ingredients with ambiguous names (such as diazolidinyl urea, which can be from animal sources but is always synthetic in the Nature's Gate products). If you have any details on this it would be great so I can check in with the chemists at NG and see if this is true or just a misunderstanding. Thanks!

Ryan

Shoulders and deadlift day today, but not a great one. Felt worn out from a weekend of bad sleeping habits (5 hours one day, nearly 11 the next) and I've just felt off since I woke up. Wanted to lift in the garage today for some log pressing, but there was ice on the floor since it got quite cold last night which kind of ruled that one out. So, off to the gym I went.

Presses in the rack -

1x8 @ 135 (strict)

1x4 @ 185 (strict)

1x3 @ 225 (push)

5x3 @ 255 (push)

Wrapped up with 3 quick sets doing 1 strict press @ 185, drop behind the neck, do a push jerk back up, rest one minute and repeat. Just wanted to work on getting more sets in and making 255 go up like with how 225 did a year ago, getting better overall with this.

16" deadlifts in the rack - this is where it got crappy.

1x3 @ 315

1x3 @ 405

1x2 @ 500 (totally felt off, stopped before 3rd rep)

1x1 @ 500 - super mad at how bad these were going, quit before it got worse. No idea why my DL is still going downhill even with starting to get back into working on them, but something's gotta get better here.

Hammer Strength plate-loaded shoulder press -

1x9 @ 270

1x8 @ 270, had to rest for a bit before the last 2 reps. Getting tired

Barbell shrugs - my arch nemesis, the most uncomfortable feeling movement I know of. Don't know why my body hates shrugging with a barbell, but I never feel right doing them. Just did 2 sets of 10 @ 315 with a mixed grip (hands one way, then switched) then two sets of 20 overhand @ 225 just to force myself to keep doing them and try to get comfortable. Even when my DL was better and I was pulling 500 for a few reps my shrugs sucked, so it's about damn time I finally force myself to get used to them and get them up nicely.

Gotta get my sleep back to normal again, ready in time for squatting on Tuesday. Going for 455 for 25 reps total in the workout, need to be ready for that one.

Back and chest day today!

Less than an hour to get both in meant a quick workout with little rest, but it worked out fairly well -

Barbell rows -

1x8 @ 135

1x5 @ 225

1x5 @ 275

1x5 @ 295

1x5 @ 305

1x3 @ 315

Close-grip benching (hand about 15-16" apart)

1x8 @ 135

1x5 @ 225

1x3 @ 255

1x3 @ 275

1x2 @ 285 for a PR with close grip

Getting better with these, but elbows felt a bit of tendonitis afterward for about 30 minutes.

DB hammer curls -

1x5 @ 60

2x5 @ 65

DB Rows

1x20 each arm @ 100 lbs. (racks were full at temporary new gym, had to waste a few minutes)

Hise Shrugs

1x10 @ 315

1x10 @ 405

1x10 @ 495

Wrapped everything up in just about 52 minutes and that was all.

Family obligations will screw me over for Saturday training, but I'll get some fun with the log and other things in on Sunday instead!

There's no need to work all muscle groups every day (you'll get tired but you won't get strong or big that way!) A sensible workout plan starting with something such as each muscle group once or twice weekly is good enough, and for some, maybe every 8-14 days per group. Everyone's different, but I've yet to hear of anyone who can train all groups daily and still make any progress!

Daywalker posted stickies for some good standard routines. Definnitely look into those for a starting place.

I would love to see a humane society that has huge pens for the animals. I know they must exist in many places throughout the world, but the one I visited had pretty small living quarters for the animals.

That's one good thing about Milwaukee - the Humane Society here has large rooms for both cats and dogs, so there's no small cages like others that I've been to. Dogs have larger rooms of about 6x6' up to about 8x10' depending on their size, all with their own toys and beds. Cats have either individual rooms of about 4x6' with towers to climb on and sleep in, or they've got smaller rooms about 4x4' with beds and toys, a far cry from the places with tiny cages. They've got a virtual tour online that shows a fair depiction of the space the animals have (I think it seems much larger and spacious inside than the slideshow lets on!) and if you want to take a look you can see here: http://www.wihumane.org/aboutus/virtualtour.aspx

It's a far cry from the dark, cold facility they had years ago, and only with a lot of very generous donations do the animals have a better place to stay. Never forget to support your local shelter!

You're morphing into one of those powerlifting guys. No hair, thick neck, where's the goatee? Looking strong though.

Missing a flame beanie, though - put that in and you've got the total powerlifter look!

Leg and shoulder day today -

Started with push presses in the rack -

1x5 @ empty bar with each arm

1x5 @ 135

1x3 @ 185

1x3 @ 225

1x3 @ 265

1x1 @ 285

Wanted to go above 275 again and it went up easy despite lifting in a new gym with bad equipment today. 305 will only be a few weeks away!

Squats next -

1x5 @ 225

1x3 @ 315

1x3 @ 405

1x1 @ 455

1x1 @ 475

1x1 @ 495

2x1 @ 515

1x10 @ 405

Going heavy often with the squats has really been keeping the progress up - soon I'll start to slow down on the constantly heavy work, but hitting only 10 lbs. less than my PR for 2 relatively easy singles was a good sign. The 405x10 nearly freaking killed me - I'm dead serious about that. Just wanted to wrap up with 5, 5 was easy so I figured 8 would be good, then I decided to hit a PR for reps with 9, and once 9 came up, 10 had to happen. I spent about 5 minutes on the ground lying in a pool of sweat and gasping for air afterward, but it was worth it!

Kind of goofed off for the rest of the session and did the following random stuff -

1-arm DB clean and press -

1x10 @ 100 each arm, strict with slight side bend right side, less bend but a bit of push left side

1-arm BB snatch -

1x2 with each arm @ 115

Seated BB wrist curls -

1x10

That was good enough for today, should be getting some DL work in on Thursday. My DL sucks lately (primarily because of neglect), so I'm going to hit up a quality training facility that's got a good reputation for improving the powerlifts for clients. I figure 10 once-weekly DL sessions should boost me back up to the mid-500s pretty easily once someone slaps good form into me again, so that'll be my motivation since I need to get better at 'em for the summer contests.

Jay, you have got to take it easy on your body. There's nothing wrong with taking some time away from the weights as they really stress the system. I think your body is trying to tell you it needs a little break.

Good words here. I had to take 2 full months off this summer when I sprained my entire lower back - it wasn't fun, but everything came back better than ever once I took that time off to heal on up. If I'd tried to work through it I'd probably still be aching all the time. Get some rest, man, and give your body maybe a short 2 week break and see what happens.

I stinks when you're working toward a goal and have to take time out, but it doesn't pay to meet the goal and be in constant pain the whole time getting there. Besides, you might find that you gain twice as fast once you get that rest period under your belt!

No worries about the ART talk, Phoenix - I'm just happy to hear that it may be doing some good for you!

Got a bit of event work in yesterday, but I was pretty beat from only getting about 5 hours of sleep and my mind just wansn't in it 100%. Still had fun and got some good lifting in.

Started with DLs in the rack from what I'd guess to have been about 8" or so higher than a pull from the floor. Worked up to 495, got stopped at 545. My DL sucks right now after so long of not doing them and will be my main focus for improvement.

Did some 12" log pressing next, pretty cold outside with just a light sweatshirt. I'm not too good with the big logs yet, but I managed to get one single and a double with 230 which is better than my getting stopped cold with 210 the last time I tried a log that large. Just gotta keep working that form because the strength is there but the technique is still pretty sloppy since I tend to push off my toes instead of my heels with log pressing.

Some quick thick-handled farmer's holds next, did up to 245 or something like that for a quick 8-10 second hold, didn't move the 300ish weight at all so nothing extremely heavy.

Wrapped up with stones, but I had to leave early into them so I didn't get as much work here as I'd hoped for. Some loads up to 300, attempted to move the new beast which was estimated between 375 and 400 but didn't budge it. Two last sets were some ass-kickers, done with the 280. First set was pull to knee height, set it down, step back and do it again for 5, then lap it on the last pull and do 5 reps to platform height, loading the last one. Final set for me was 5 reps of taking the 280 from the lap, setting it to just an inch above ground, then re-lap again. Almost lost my grip a few times but held on for all I had and got it done.

Only complaint today is that my back sprain from summer is acting up a little, but it usually goes away after a day or two. Other than that, everything training-wise has been quite good!

Phoenix,

Aside from a quarter-sized bruise I'm quite alright - I just need to learn to time my cleans better for the 2nd pull so I don't make the same mistake twice! That, and doing them in loose-fit jeans may not be the brightest idea of mine...

Back workout today!

Barbell rows -

1x5 @ 135

1x5 @ 225

5x5 @ 275

Hise Shrugs in the rack

3x10 @ 405

Hammer Strength plate-loaded 1-arm pulldowns

2x8 @ 150 each arm

Power Cleans

2x5 @ 185

3rd set whacked myself nicely - bounced the pull off my crotch, jeans I was wearing bunched up in the front and the bar slammed the hard zipper area right into my groin, causing me to shout because it freakin' hurt a LOT. Stopped on that 3rd rep and called it quits.

Headed home, hit the basement to wrap things up once I was done being mad at my stupidity.

Eagle Loop shrugs with weight on loading pin -

5x20 @ 125 lbs. each arm

Ironmind Heavy Hammer wrist levering - used 7.5 lbs. and did a few sets of 15 in various directions

Formulator wrist curls - did 3 sets, 2 with palms up, 1 with palms down

That was it for today, should be deadlifting on Thursday or Friday.

I may as well get one in here as well for VeganEssentials.com!

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Squats and overhead work again today, trying to change my schedule a bit and get them in on Mondays if possible.

Push presses -

1x8 @ empty bar

1x5 @ 135

1x3 @ 225

1x3 @ 265

2x2 @ 275

Trying to get to doing more doubles and triples with heavier weights. Was going to go lighter and hit more reps, but I can tell early on when my endurance sucks and it sucked hard today. Heavy low reps were the only way to get things done.

Squats next -

1x5 @ 225

1x3 @ 315

1x3 @ 405

1x3 @ 455

1x3 @ 475

1x1 @ 485

Wanted to get a triple with 485, hit the pins well below parallel and came up uneven, stopped there. Next time it'll work.

1x20 @ 225

Did a 20 rep set to finish off, no rest between reps, just one after another to get some cardio-ish work in. Probably could have hit 30 or more without much problem if I'd decided to top out, but I just wanted to see if I could get 20 without needing to catch my breath between reps.

Wrapped up with 2x10 @ 225 for some light Good Mornings and that was it. May get some back work in tomorrow, DLs coming on Wednesday or Thursday.

I believe there are significant differences between tattoos and/or piercing, and breast implants.

I can assure you that there are many people out there who get tattoos/body modification done because of vanity reasons to impress others or feel better about themselves. But, like breast augmentation, you wouldn't know the exact reason simply by looking at someone. Simply judging by observation is only a personal assumption as to what the reasons are and does not necessarily offer a true insight.

From my point of view it isn't a matter of taste, but a matter of addressing what Sandra Bartky calls "the established order of domination." So, to me, the statement "if you don't like it then too bad" is one that supports the status quo.

But, if you don't like it, does that give authority to make judgement, particularly without knowing the exact motives for the procedure having been done? If someone feels better about themselves, even if it is due to inadequacies being felt due to social image and perception of how one fits in, is the decision bad even if the person feels that their life has improved in the end? I doubt that most people who get breast augmentation jump into it without trying to accept their current situation first and live with what they naturally have, but if their reaction for the procedure genuinely makes them feel better about themselves (all society-influenced reasons aside) then what is the harm being done if it affects nobody but the person who had it done? Just playing devil's advocate here - I'm neither pro-augmentation nor con, but curious to hear why it can never seem to be a good idea to you.

But, how is an individuals equal worth and autonomy promoted while possibly risking her own health in order to conform to what is arguably a male-based fantasy of beauty?

That's under the assumption that each and every person has augmentation based only on their desire to fit a male-based fantasy of beauty and offers no other personal reasoning why someone would do such a thing. If that were the only option, it would be completely logical, but I doubt that it can encompass 100% of all people who have it done. Probably a great deal of them, but certainly not all.

Also, what about the fair number of people who, as mentioned before, have piercing/body modification work done? There's a health risk to that as well, and if people do it for the wrong reasons then does that negate the validity of their decisions as well? Again, we wouldn't know unless we could look into the minds of each and every person who does such things, so I think that the two groups parallel each other well in some ways such as this. We simply cannot know the exact reasons, so judging seems to be unfair.

A person's sense of beauty may not benefit the person who holds it, but the privileged and patriarchy itself, as Anita Superson points out in the September 2005 issue of Hypatia-A Journal of Feminist Philosophy. (I borrowed the terms "deformed desires" and "informed desires" from Superson's article "Deformed Desires and Informed Desire Tests.")

Again, if a person has augmentation, feels better about themselves and overcomes mental obstacles based on feelings of inferiority (all reasoning for such feelings aside as that's a different case), then how is the person not benefiting from the procedure? I can only see two possible scenarios where there is no benefit to the person - first, where health is compromised due to problems with the procedure, and second, when there is remorse for having the procedure done. If these two factors are not present, then where is the harm to the individual?

I agree with much of what Superson says about desires that are formed by unjust social conditions -- a related term for this is hegemonic control. And I believe it is important that we question those desires in the interest of promoting equality and autonomy.

The quote "Hate the game, not the player" applies well to all of this. Attacking the root is one thing, but judging those who have done it in perceived response is another, particularly if we do not know the exact reasons something was done for.

We could get into a whole new debate if anyone would like to discuss the reasons for bodybuilding and how the "ideal" male physique is perceived in the mainstream media. Lots of fun parallels we can talk about then!

Phoenix - glad to hear that the ART might be something that helps out! Keep me posted how it goes and hopefully it'll be useful in recovering from whatever is ailing your rotator cuff.

Saturday, got to lift for 25 minutes since I got to the gym later than I ever have. May as well do some chest stuff with no time left, so....

Close-grip benching (hands about 16" apart"

1x8 @ 135

1x5 @ 225

1x5 @ 265

1x4 @ 265

Close-grip half presses in the power rack (about a 12" press to lockout)

2x3 @ 315

1x4 @ 315

That's all time would allow for, so I need to get my ass in gear this week and not get swamped with everything that prevents me from lifting as much as necessary!

Long, tough week here at work means little lifting, but I managed to get out tonight for a bit to squat and overhead press.

Started with push presses in the rack -

1x8 with empty bar

1x5 @ 135 (strict press)

1x3 @ 185 (strict press)

1x3 @ 225 (push)

1x2 @ 255 (push)

1x2 @ 275 (push), failed on 3rd rep as I have before. Can't figure out why it was so tough, but I practically suffered a nervous breakdown yesterday due to stress so I didn't expect miracles today in the gym. So much for it being easier after the holiday rush is over...

Squats next up -

1x5 @ 225

1x3 @ 315

1x2 @ 405

1x2 @ 455

1x1 @ 475

1x2 @ 495

1x1 @ 505

Squats were much better - wanted to hit 'em heavier today so next week I can drop to 405 and aim for 3x8 to hit more volume.

Front squats for a few sets -

1x3 @ 225

1x2 @ 275

Failed at 320, entire body too beat up by this point.

DB curls next -

1x5 @ 65 lbs. each arm

1x5 @ 70 lbs. " "

Hit one set on some lame shoulder press machine on the way to the locker room and that was it.

Probably won't lift until the weekend, hope to get more event training in then!

Pretty much everything other than the Eco-Dent, which was discussed above about the milk protein used to create the anti-plaque bacteria that they use in the product. And, of course, JASON discontinued their floss because it "didn't sell well enough", so if the NG floss has beeswax, then you're stuck with the dilemma of Eco-Dent or you've got to go with unwaxed floss. It doesn't seem like it should be so tough to find a vegan floss, but unfortunately that's the case.

Neil,

If I remember correctly, the NG floss has beeswax (most companies that say they're cruelty-free still don't think of bees as animals, unfortunately...) Don't quote me on this for sure, but I actually spoke with one of the NG product formulators at a convention some time ago and he scoffed at the idea of a vegetable waxed floss, saying it wasn't possible. I can't remember what bizarre reason he gave for it, but he insisted that it wasn't feasible (then how did JASON wax their floss?!?) I'm going to call them tomorrow to see what's up since every damned store online that sells it is too lazy to list the ingredients!

Good log!

For the rotator cuff injury, have you ever looked into ART (Active release therapy)? A lot of people who were told they'd never be able to bench/shoulder press again have gotten back to or beyond their original strength levels by undergoing ART treatments, so if you haven't looked into it, it may be worthwhile.

Also, check out a piece of equipment called the Shoulder Horn - it's pretty easy to find online, and apparently is an excellent item for rehabbing rotator injuries. Just a few thoughts on possible recovery tools!