DaN

CollegeB wrote: Lies

The thing people always mis-judge is the whole, "its mother natures plant" & "its natural" crap. So is opium, and a whole host of other plants that can kill us when taken.Not everything "mother nature" pushes out of the ground is for our benefit.Infact "mother nature" couldnt give a crap what we want.

Oh my god I cant believe you have stayed there more than one night.I literally could not sleep. Leave the apartment, fuck the contract, its doubtful the landlord will follow it up.If he does, threaten him with severe violence if he ever mentions it again.Maybe collect a LOAD of the roaches and set them free in his house.Seriously, get fucking nasty on his irresponsible arse.

Lloyd you know that donor card you signed last month, it actually includes in the small print; "authorisation for donation of organs to eat in case of emergency" They tricked you! Get down that donor office and cancel, cancel fast!

Lloyd for most of my life I shared the same view, but having experince of weed, I am aware that in a considerable number of users it causes depression.Not good.So I am now anti-weed, from being pro-weed. Just where i'm at now.

I like your style Lloyd

yes it looks as though it is. are all these breatharians simply liars? has anyone on here really looked into it?

Only old women, people from the 1800's and hobos use pressure cookers.Be a real man and USE AN OVEN. JOKE!

Killing them in any way is not part of the vegan ethos.You should learn to live with them, or move out and take it as a lesson in life. I once moved into a lovely field in the congo, but soon found out I was sharing it with some lions.I tried to contact an exterminator but strangely couldnt find anybody prepared to exterminate the lions.So I had to leave. JOKE!

All that being said, there are alot of things that people do that are dangerous to their health for recreation.Like drinking alcohol, even something like skiing is an 'unnecesary health risk' I would say, from a liberal point of view (not mine) , you could say that an occasional smoke, or drink might be ok. As my good old gran used to say: "Its the abuse of these things that is wrong"

I used to smoke 10 spliffs & 10 cigarettes a day. When you smoke a spliff without a filter, the nicotine & tar that makes it into your lungs is roughly 9 times that of what makes it through if there is a filter. On that basis I smoked the equivalent tar & nicotine of 100 cigarettes, per day - for 8 years. I became seriously ill 5 years ago (no surprises what caused that) and gave up smoking completely in 1 day.I have never smoked since.It was a VERY EASY transition. While I cannot argue against the fact that nicotine is addictive, people who cant stop smoking because its "so hard" just have very weak willpower. Its 95% willpower, 5% physical. We all care alot about animals, but we musnt forget that we are also 'animals', and tobacco companies live off the profit of abuse and death of humans, as such are just as bad as the meat industry, in my opinion.

^ +1

couture, the farms around where I live are similar, but I think the argument is that the chickens came from breeders, who may not treat the chickens so well as the farm, and also that taking eggs at all is cruel to the mother hen.I do agree, and for that reason, I dont eat eggs.But I think the farms we are talking about are a far better alternative for those people who are going to eat eggs whether we like it or not.Thats why I always recommend local farms to people not prepared to go vegan.

Jason wrote: Not xphilx, he doesnt recognise any difference in the two types of farming - making the blanket statement that both are captivity. I wonder if he feels the same about a human being held hostage and tortured, and a human serving a jail sentence.Both are captivity but I know which I would prefer.

I'm really impressed, is a good sound. Where in the UK you from? I live in Penn, Bucks. Would like to come to one of your gigs, or buy some of your material

I totally agree VE. The Transformers movies, as a die hard fan, were really disappointing.The same can be said for alot of Hollywood movies. However, I still have enough joojoo to muster up some optimistic excitement for Tron lol. I will probably be disappointed, but I'm hoping if the films crap, the Daft Punk soundtrack will be good, and vice-versa.Surely one of them has to be good! Fallen Horse -

I just wanted to clarify why we take moral objection to eggs, dairy and already dead meat.I wanted to see how strong the arguments were. I think it threw up some interesting info I wasnt aware of, and made others think in a way that perhaps they hadnt before.It has become clear that our stance against eggs and dairy is justified, whilst no valid (in my opinion) argument was proposed as to what is actually wrong, morally with eating an animal that died of natural causes. Plus the questions I asked in my first post in this thread are questions I have been asked by people, and I have not had an adequate answer for. Thanks all.

Thanks for the reply VE. You make your points very well, and I must say I totally agree with you. To be clear, I always, and have always, first and foremost advised people to go vegan/vege.I have pursuaded many people to do that (always a good feeling when they tell you they have stopped eating meat thanks to your advice) But mostly I find people who are completely unwilling to ever give up meat (80% of people I talk to) For these people, I try to appeal to them by suggesting going to their local farmers, rather than supermarkets - because the animals do suffer less. I think other vegans should follow this rather than being so shortsighted as to not recognise the difference. Just my opinion

I agree! However - it is relevant if you are one of these vegans going around thinking that veganism is a natural diet, and that eating meat and eggs is unhealthy, and if you are expressing those views to others like its gospel ( I am not saying you are) My point to people was not to be one of those vegans because if they come up against anyone who is educated enough, they will expose those false views and make them look silly.And I hate vegans to look silly in a discussion because we need to be educated, correct, appealing, and have integrity. The whole meat is a poison, eggs are unhealthy, humans are plant based animals theory is just uneducated, and paints us in a bad light.

Hip-hop: Mos Def and Talib Kweli (vege's) are Blackstar - specifically "Respiration ft.Common" Rock: Kings of Leon, Talk Talk, Temper Trap, Coldplay (vegan), KT Tunstall (vege) Alternative: Thom Yorke (vege) - specifically "Hearing Damage", & PM Dawn.

OMG look for the new TRON movie trailer! I am so excited.Having loved the original, this one looks like it could be better, plus the soundtrack is being done by Daft Punk, who are apparently releasing a new album to go with it with 24 tracks. I just might explode.

I see your point - you are not living a 1000 years ago so it is not relevant to your life now. But thats like saying that right now at 7:00 in the evening, what happened in the morning, or what is going to happen later in the evening is not relevant.In my opinion it is relevant. What happened a 1000 years ago, in my opinion, as relevant as what happened 1000 minutes ago.But I am a historian, so I guess I enjoy learning about our past and seeing how it links into our present, and how the trends of the past directly relate to the trends of the future. When you are broad minded enough (which you are ) to comprehend our existence from day 1, up until the present moment, you can see what likely situations are coming in the future too ...... the desert island situation is actually the norm - our current situation is the unlikely exception.

Oh and guys I read a fascinating article: Apparently, they have linked certain types of stomach bacteria to obese people.Basically, certain types of stomach bacteria are really good at breaking down calories in fibrous foods.Obese people have alot of these bacteria in their stomach.Thin people were tested and found to be very low in these bacteria.When the obese person ate something high in fibre, their stomach was releasing huge amounts of calories from it, compared to the thin people and their "inferior" bacteria, who were simpky poo-ing it out. One way to balance this out was apparently to take pre-biotics.

yup , not enough calories. I used to have to eat ATLEAST 3000 every day whilst training with weights only twice a week and one big jog.Then I would gain a couple of pounds a week, max. If I ever missed a day of eating huge amount, I would not gain anything that week. It took me months to build up my weight, and got flu, which lasted a few weeks, and lost it all.For some of us, it is virtually impossible without SEVERE dedication.For others, they look at a weights set and bang, they weigh as much as a rhino (ok slight exageration!)