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i think the fact that the deficiency percentage remains constant among everyone is an extemely salient piece of information in this case. It serves as a sort of mini experiment, the variable being vitamin b12. There are a percentage of people who are consuming b12 in the form of animal products or supplementation that are still becoming deficient. This means that the deficiency is not caused by lack of vitamin, but as mentioned, failure some where in the body of that particular person as it relates to the means of absorption. im not sure of the actual number, but for instance if 2% of vegans are deficient in B12. Doug is saying that the same ratio applies across all. 2% of western dieters are deficient 2% of med. diets are deficient 2% of raw foodies are deficient 2% of vegetarians are deficient Since the consumption of B12 is in half of those diets and NOT in the other half, The intake of B12 isn't changing anything. The same result occurs consistently through various diets, which almost proves that the variable (the addition of b12 through animal products/supplementation) is ineffective in regard to B12 deficiency. So all of the horror stories of deficiency actually have nothing to do with B12 consumption, its that persons ability to absorb it that is the real culprit. And as Doug said (again, not sure if hes lying), we actually get B12 from breathing, swallowing among many other passive methods, so it is only extraneous to add more. whatev im still supplementing, its like $40/year

Yea i thought this was weird as well. She comes recommended by many of the raw gurus. Dr. Vitrano has been raw for 25 years, but she just must be lying. I guess the argument is that B12 is made by the body and plants, nuts, seeds are the facilitators of that process, as well as the opinion that the supplement doesn't actually work. When deficiencies occur, it is actually because the person has an absorption issue. I guess the deficiency rate is consistent across ALL diets. The percentage of meat eaters who are deficient is equal to that of vegans because it is merely absorption issues of the vitamin that is occurring among the deficient. B12 is formed from bacteria and is all around us. Doug Graham says we even breathe it. B12 @ 1:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyHQy9B1GQA I have no clue though I am just a newb reading superficially without a scientific education on the matter

"In summary, vegans and raw fooders all have sufficient amounts of coenzyme B12 in their diets, and FROM THAT produced in their bodies. The most common basic cause of a natural cobalamin deficiency is a failure to digest, absorb and utilize the various cobalamins from food and from the intestinal tract as in the case of gastritis or gastroenteritis. The cause of malabsorption is commonly a gastrointestinal disorder and this was known by pathologists way back in the l800s. In this case, one's lifestyle must be assessed and brought into unison with the needs of the living organism." i guess the B12 in supplement form isn't even absorbed or used by the body either. http://www.roylretreat.com/articles/b12.html

So I am heading to the farmers market.. Can Someone put together the optimum, most nutritious salad? Not too expensive though, i.e. best nutritional bang for your buck. Mine are usually pretty boring, romaine, cucumbers, tomato, peppers, balsamic.

Hello, I am 21 yrs old and a vegan newb of about 1 month. I came across this philosophy mostly through michael pollan's books and ideas (even though he is a flexatarian). I am trying to slowly develop the optimum meal plan or at least one that fits a college student's budget. I workout 2-3 times a week. The biggest questions I have that I would like to explore in my stay here at the vb forums are regarding the deficiencies. I am actually pretty scared of the vegan diet because we only get one body and if we do it wrong, this could have irreversible damage 20 years down the road. Its hard because I have been eating a diversified diet including meat (mostly chicken breast) and a lot of dairy my entire life and look and feel healthy. So it is a little difficult rationalizing to fix something that is not necessarily broken. But if anything, I guess its for health, as well as environmental and ethical reasons. I know there is supplementation as well as real whole food consumption, but I hope to learn more about which has greater rates of absorption. I.E. are certain vitamins as available in the synthetic supplements as they are in foods, as well as which foods to combine to increase absorption of these vits and minerals. (like how it is supposedly good to eat tomatoes with olive oil because the licopene is better absorbed more efficiently). It seems like there some very knowledgeable regulars here, so thanks in advance!

lol no spam for real, i just wonder why people wouldnt just eat cereals like this instead of a multi

Hello, I am a real vegan newb, just trying to gather some sort of meal plan/supplementation advice. My biggest fear about this stuff are the potential deficiencies. It seems like Total Raisin Bran (w/soy milk) is too good to be true. 100% of pretty much everything? I guess the drawbacks are the amount of added sugars and because its processed, its scary? Is there a difference between this and a vitamin supplement? Is it any better or worse? Perhaps the body absorbs it less adequately? thanks