Ducati

I like the fact that one can express their opinion here without being moderated to death. VeganForum and VeganFitness both restrict a great deal of free speech based upon the owners bias. If you don't like a thread, you don't need to join in or read it. Simple as that.

Ryan, You always seem to resort to Ad Hominem when someone doesn't agree with you. Try arguing facts. "Most endomorphs tend to be inactive and even lazy." http://www.oaklandcolleges.net/lose-the-fat/how-can-endomorphs-lose-fat-the-endomorph-diet-and-endomorph-training "Specifically, mesomorphs are typically perceived as strong, brave, adventurous, physically healthy, and good-looking. Endomorphs, on the other hand, are seen as lazy, sloppy, dirty, disorganized, ugly, and stupid; ectomorphs are perceived as quiet, worrying, lonely, afraid, sad, and weak ( Brodsky, 1954; Brylinsky & Moore, 1994; Felker, 1972; Gacsaly & Borges, 1979; Harris & Smith, 1983; Johnson & Staffieri, 1971; Lerner, 1969 a, 1969 b; Lerner & Gellert, 1969; Lerner & Korn, 1972; Lerner & Schroeder, 1971; Staffieri, 1967; Wells & Siegel, 1961). http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=95247562 If you don't agree with me, you can just say that and be done with it. You don't have to target me personally. If you don't find something offensive that others might, then great, don't be offended. But understand that others might be and it might show them respect to be sensitive to that. People don't need to be classified to make a change. They need to be understood and respected as a unique individual.

Ryan, I did not make the image I posted, I pulled it from the internet. Yes, I used it because it shows the derogatory aspect of these classifications. You are showing one that shows a more respectful version which is validating your reasoning. Everything you just said to me I could flip around onto you. I see zealotry in your viewpoints as well in telling me, or anyone else, we shouldn't find these classifications offensive by calling us PC police. Many people have serious body issues in this country and these terms can certainly perpetuate the issue. I am only attempting to persuade people to see these things from another persons viewpoint. These classifications might have originally been created with the goal to help people identify the way their bodies process nutrients, but that is no longer the case. The terms have been twisted into derogatory terms. The same could be said for the terms idiot, imbecile, and moron. Would you ever refer to an adult with an IQ below 25 as an idiot? If you call a teenager with a body image complex an endomorph, no matter what your intent, you will be adding to that already negative body image.

I also want to add that muscle doesn't mean much if you can't use it. When I was heavy, I could never do one pull-up. Now I can do maybe 10 or 12. So, even though I have less total muscle mass, the muscle I do have is much more useful.

I didn't say this, but it is something I might have said, had I have said it. I'm sorry. It was Northstar who said it:P

My intent was not to make you mad or get you to leave. I only wish for you to see that your classifying people into categories with negative connotations can be harmful to that persons self-image. "There is evidence that different physiques carry cultural stereotypes. For example, one study found that endomorphs are likely to be perceived as slow, sloppy, and lazy. Mesomorphs, in contrast, are typically stereotyped as popular and hardworking, whereas ectomorphs are often viewed as intelligent but fearful.[2] Stereotypes of mesomorphs are generally much more favorable than those of endomorphs. Stereotypes of ectomorphs are somewhat mixed." I am not speaking for ectomorphs, endomorphs, or women. I am speaking for people who may have a negative body imagine because of negative stereotyping and classifications in our society.

When I was 230 pounds, I was told I had a bf% of around 33%. That is around 155 pounds of lean body mass. When I got down to 165 I was 15% which is 140 pounds of lean body mass. That is a fair trade off in my opinion. Now I am 168 and around 13% which is about 148 pounds of lean body mass. I put the majority of these 8 pounds of muscle on while eating around 10%-15% protein. I have only recently upped my protein to try and lose more fat. However, I found that I start bonking quicker and my workouts are shorter. Now that I am doing insanity, I am back to mostly carbs for the energy. After insanity is over and I am down to around 10-11% BF, I will go back to P90X to build muscle. I will probably keep it around 20% protein.

Just because someone cannot feel it, doesn't me it isn't causing harm. Cancer clusters around high tension power lines suggest that there might be a lot more to EMF's than we think we know.

A lot of guys on this board build plenty of muscle on 20% or less protein. And you obviously are not trying to bulk up if you are eating 1,800 Cals a day, so you don't need any extra protein. I can easily maintain my muscle mass on 5%-6% protein which is about the minimum you would get eating just fruits and veggies. You are around 14% right now. And like Fallen Horse said, any change in diet will cause gas. You need to give your body time to change the flora in your gut. What you predominately eat will determine what flora is most present. However, some beans might always produce gas. I have found lentils to be the least gassy of all legumes as well as the most flavorful, and best fat/protein/fiber ratio. It is also one of the best sources of complete amino acids.

I'm Your Man, I agree that happiness and confidence come from within, but in this society, one is taught to be ashamed of their body type unless it fits a certain category. This is especially true of young women. You occasionally see overweight men in leading roles in movies and tv, but rarely overweight women. If one was purely intrinsic, this would be a non-issue with them. However, most people are very extrinsic. They seek outward derived approval, religion, status, etc. That is one of the keys to helping someone lose weight. If you improve their self-confidence and move their mindset from the extrinsic to the intrinsic, they will convince themselves that they are capable of helping themselves. There is no need to classify them as anything extrinsically based. Why do they need to be classified as big, overweight, endomorph, etc? Why not just teach them that they can be happy, and self-improvement originates from within? That is the basis of Buddha's teachings, is it not? Enlightenment is purely intrinsic. I think it is great that so many people on this board are not personally offended by these classifications and it shows they have great self-confidence, but it is also disheartening when so many people don't see that these classifications can add to an already negative image another person might have of him or herself.

Religion and enlightenment? I think religion is the opposite of enlightenment.

I would be happy to know that more people might now consider it offensive because I mentioned it. That is because it IS offensive, derogatory, and degrading, and it might cause someone to think twice before using these terms to describe another person. That cartoon is exactly what this discussion is about. That is how those classifications are portrayed.

This is not derogatory? Ryan, Why is it ok to classify someone based on body type, but not on their choice of profession?

Yeah, I advertised on craigslist for a "swing partner". After the first day, I realized I had to change it to "swing dance partner".

That is exactly what you are doing. You are trying to apply a label based on a persons physical characteristics. You are calling them fatso, but doing it which quasi-scientific terms. You are also alienating them by classifying them. If you simply help someone to eat healthier and increase physical fitness, you are much more likely to see them succeed. If you tell them they are in a certain group in which losing weight is more difficult, they might not even decide to try. I know because I accepted I was an endomorph for the first 30+ years of my life. If I had been given positive encouragement instead of a label, I might have had a completely different childhood and young adult life. The terms endomorph and ectomorph are degrading to those people who receive that label and have definite negative connotations. When you degrade someone, you reduce the chances of them succeeding in changing their lifestyle.

I think you might be doing too much as well. I am doing Insanity as well and I am finding my quads and hamstrings have bulked up a little in the past two weeks. I wouldn't consider doing more than this workout once a day. You can try going deeper in the exercises which will work those muscles more. Where are you at in insanity? I was suppose to do the fit test yesterday, but I tried the max interval video and made it about 40 minutes in. The second month videos are way way harder than the first month.

Hi Veggie Monster, (I Like your name) You will have to see what works for you, but I lost at least 75 pounds eating 80% - 90% carbs and the other 10% - 20% a split in fat and protein. I ate predominately fresh fruits and vegetables, with a little bit of nuts and flax seeds occasionally. I did P90X for a long time, but I never got really cut. Maybe I would have if I consumed more protein. I still have about 6 or7 pounds to go and it didn't start coming off until I started doing Insanity. With Insanity, I actually notice a change everyday, which to me is amazing. I am trying to keep my protein intake up a little lately, but I get sick of the powders, I don't like the processed foods, beans and lentils give me gas, and I don't always want to cook a batch of seitan.

Herc, Carbondale sucks. I wish I was in Denver. Cubby, People have suffered severe depression and even committed suicide when they are classified as something they don't want to be. So try and be respectful of other people's emotions. You are coming across as the bully who called other kids named to make yourself feel better. Is it ok if I classify you as a bully?

that was my next thought. I should do that. thanks! have you tried that? The closest vegan restaurant to me is over 180 miles away:(

Maybe post some flyers at the local vegan restaurants? You are a lot better off then I am. Hardly any vegans near me at all.

Well, the supplement I take has about 10,000% RDA of B12 in one drop. So, I guess I absorb about 100% of my RDA then, eh?

But you are attempting to classify. You are describing people in these classifications. I think you need to look at these classifications from someone else's point of view. Many people find these classifications insulting. Imagine someone told you that because you have one finger longer than another that you a prone to be less intelligent, or more likely to be violent, or that you have a propensity toward raping another human being. How would you feel about that? When you classify people into these groups, they often tend to believe what you tell them and they accept the characteristics of that group. It ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy.

I am not saying that you would use for unethical purposes. However, if we look at history, the need to classify people into certain categories has resulted in everything from eugenics to genocide. If you look at a book describing mesomorphs, endomorphs, and ectomorphs, they clearly show a muscular individuals, a fat individual, and a skinny individual. Mesomorph is shown as superior, whereas as ectomorphs are inferior to mesomorphs, and endomorphs are inferior to both. Personally, I find the use of these terms to classify people quite offensive and degrading. Go here and look at how they show an endomorph and an ectomorph. http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbs=isch:1&q=endomorph+ectomorph+mesomorph&revid=658622759&sa=X&ei=VA9XTO2QIIXUtQOSoOjZAg&ved=0CCMQ1QIoAA&biw=1310&bih=933 The endomorphs are shown as fat and the ectomorphs are shown at best being slender, and in some causes extremely thin and malnourished looking. These classifications are an attempt to show some individuals as superior to others. Someone tried to do this with the Aryan race.

My personal opinion is that trying to classify people based on some physical correlations, not matter how good the intent, ends up being used for unethical purposes. In addition, it can force upon the subject the mindset that they are of a certain type and to change that is difficult or impossible. I was told I was an endomorph, I always will be an endomorph, and nothing I can do will change that. I believed that for most of my life. I just accepted that I will be fat for life and that it is genetics. Well, it wasn't genetics, it was a poor lifestyle I inherited from my parents that made me obese. Most people would classify me as a mesomorph now. I also eat a very high carb diet and have lost around 75 pounds of fat and gained 5-8 pounds of muscle. No classifications for me, thanks.

What is the point of this?