compassionategirl

I know, Koll, I cannot believe that there is a National Pork Board either!!!! That is freakin just too much, man. I couldnt go and look at the link Brendan provided because i get REALY upset when I see this crap and i cannot handle it anymore - i feel like I need to punch a wall or something. ANd I totally agree with you on the stupid cartonns or pictures that meat companies have uisng a smiling cow or a pig !!! As if, like you guys all pointed out, the cow or the pig is thrilled about being scalded alive or delimbed while fully conscious and hung upside down while fully conscious to be bled to death, one slow, painful, long miserable drop at a time!!!! And this in turn further somehow makes it okay in peoples minds to eat meat!!! Dont people have common sense anymore - cant they realize that those pictures and images of HAPPY animals are LIGHT YEARS away from the truth?? NOw that I think about it, it is the same with the whole "I wish I was an Oscar Meyer Weiner" slogan/song that the company gets kids to sing!! As if anybody would wish to be a raped, tortured and murdered animal!!! Kids dont know that they are being lied to by the Oscar Meyer Weiner company but what PISSES me off is when the parents allow this crap. They allow their kids to grow up with misinformation about the meat and dairy industries and it is sick. I TOTALLY disapprove of lying to your children about ethical and important social justice issues. Even if as a meat eating parent you dont mind the abuse of animals, give your kids the correct information - in an age appropriate way of course - and let them decide if they want to be a selfish unethical meat eater like you!!! Hopefully, they will have more morals than the parents!!!

hey College B!! Actually I need to wrote a legal research paper on this topic so thanks for that link. You did some of the research for my paper for me!! If anybody comes across any articles on this topic of feminism and veganism/veg, please post the link here on this thread. College B, I think you should send her this link.

hey Gym hater, Well if you come to Canada the two vegan friendliest cities I think are Toronto (ONtario) or Vancouver (British Columbia). From what Rob says, Oregon in the States is very vegan friendly too. if you have any questions about Canada, let me know and I will do my best to answer them. I know it must be very difficult to be vegan in your country, so thanks for all your efforts. BUt I agree with Brendan on the "freeganism" stuff.

I know what you mean. I think the people who say that PETA ads exploit women must assume that the women who volunteer to be in the PETA ads are idiots who can't think for themselves. I think the opposite is true - the women who choose to be in PETA ads seem to be intelligent, educated, and they are there solely because they chose to be there. Exactly!! I am so glad to hear that somebody agrees with me on this one because it seems that most everybody else thinks that PETA exploits women. I am sorry but I just dont buy it. That's b$#ll sh$t!!

great idea college B.

AWWW she is so cute!!!! Poor little thing.

Damien! YOU and your family are inspirational to say the least. Your wife went through two pregnancies vegan and everything went well? That is great. I know you said you were primarily vegan for health reasons, but, between you and your family, thanks for saving the lives of over 500 animals a year just be being vegan! Not to mention the environment. thanks so much for deciding to introduce yourself. Please join in on the threads, post comments, question, opinions, or when you just plain feel liek ranting - we are here, and looking forward to getting to know you better. Again, you must be SO PROUD of your vegan family! P.S. Thanks so much for promoting this healthy lifestyle at Church!! I think veganism is the "Garden of Eden " diet!! natalie

wow jonathan you must be really tall. Congrats on almost reaching your goal Brendan. Keep on going we're cheering for you.

Hey koll!! YOU have a sister? Cool, how old is she and does she love animals? What doe she say about your lifestyle? Sometimes even family just doesnt get it

Good point Brendan. Diets that promote dairy eating argue as follows: "Consuming dairy is a good way to boost fat-loss. The scientifice evidence now proves that people who enjoy lower body fat percentages than those who avoid dairy. Only recently have we began to understand why this is so. Put simpply, a little-known hormone called calcitriol is responsible. Calcitriol is produced by the body when calcium levels are low. Its job is to preserve calcium while stimulating the production and storage of fat. Bottom line: low levels of dairy and calcium cause fat cells to grow; higher levels of dairy and calcium help fat cells to shrink." One need not be a vegan to notice the faulty logic contained in this argument. The argument assumes that DAIRY is the only way that one can get calcium into the body. SO even if it is true that calcium intake is essential for fat loss, from that it doesnt follow that dairy is thus essential. Dairy is not the only food source for calcium. There are tons of fortified fruit juices, non-dairy "milks", and vegetables that contain calcium, MINUS all the hormones, steriods, antibiotics and puss that is found in dairy. So once again, we see the dairy and dairy friendly industries misleading and trying to confuse people (just like the stupid commercial above) AND insulting the public by treating them as stupid. YOu dont need a degree or to be vegan to pick up on the faulty logic of the argument I quoted above!!!! Anyway, what are some commecials that piss you guys off? I guess pretty much any commercial that uses animals, but the ones that use animals to sell death and suffeirng of the same animals used in the commercial really piss me off even more! IT is just EXTRA unethical if you know what i mean.

Cool!!!!

I would love to go to this - maybe a whole bunch of people can go?

Awww!!!! What do hedgehogs look like, and why are they being culled - any specific reason like for their fur or something? Or is it as simple as human arrogance, crulety, etc, and the usual crap.

Yes I agree. But I dont think gym hater is anti-vegan. I think he is just curious about lots of things and likes to engage in debate and discussion, sometimes maybe playing devils advocate (which even I will do sometimes as it really helps to undertstand the other side of the argument better sometimes). But that dairy example gym hater i dont understand the point of. First of all, i would NOT have dairy in my fridge in the first place. SO i am not sure about the point you are trying to make. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. peace

Actually koll, you know what? Your right about that - i never even thought about it like that but that is EXACTLY what the commercial is doing, and prolly on purpose too - it is mocking animal rights, because like I said, it shows a whole bunch of real cows and people "protesting" for the "rights of brown cows". The dairy industry is truly pathetic, and is getting increasingly desperate as more consumers start to realize the crap that society has been telling them for years - that milk is GOOD for you. Nothing can be further from the truth. has anybody else seen this commercial? Does anybody know which one I am talking about?

Jon you are so right about that!! I too am impressed with the younger members of our team here who at an early age have taken on important causes and have made their existences more than just about themselves! That is rare to see because as you point out, many young people are thinking about what clubs to hit, what malls to hit, what cellphones to get, etc. etc. But stop referring to people as if you are the "old guy" on this site!! Cuz u are still young too damn it - just a littel older, that's all. Nat, stop trying to make Mr. Jon sound young just to make yourself feel like a kid lol i know you joking - no need to mention it koll that was very funny what you said i remember how much you made me laugh in my birthday post!! you a funny guy too (just like skinny dipper!)

Jon you are so right about that!! I too am impressed with the younger members of our team here who at an early age have taken on important causes and have made their existences more than just about themselves! That is rare to see because as you point out, many young people are thinking about what clubs to hit, what malls to hit, what cellphones to get, etc. etc. But stop referring to people as if you are the "old guy" on this site!! Cuz u are still young too damn it - just a littel older, that's all.

i agree brendan.

hey jonathan, okay yup the example that you gave is obviously correct, but I can give another similar example of the same kind of "dread" that animals CAN feel. If an animal is constantly beaten in a particular place, or experiences anguish or trauma at a particular place/location, then when and if that animal is brought near or to that location again, then the animal fights it - he or she doesnt want to go and you have to drag him or her there, and so the animal is experiencing "dread" in a similar, though not exactly, the same way as in the human example that you give. BUt, like you point out, this is really academic anyway. The point is that animals, LIKE HUMANS, feel pain, fear, loneliness, boredom and happiness - emotions that are not exclusively reserved for humans. And you are also right in suggesting that that is all that should matter. editted cuz i suck at typing and make lost of typos!!!

hey guys!! Just want to say that it is kind of hard to get your intended tone across in a typed message. I know that lots of times i have thought that somebody was being hostile or defensive, or even insulting/mocking but later learned that this was not how the message was intended. Internet message boards can be so cold!!! anyway, also, i notice that many threads are just that kind of thread where they will produce lots of discussion back and forth - this thread is definitely one of them. but its all good, cuz we are all friends here, we speak candidly, and sincerely, and most importantly, we are on the same team - the animals!!!

Funny...this is exactly what I was talking about in the "Vegan elitism" thread - that the common denominator in all atrocities committed against people and animals is a smug supremacist mentality.

signed. Thanks rob!! and I signed mostb of the other ones too!!!!! Please everybody else - sign and email the link to sympathetic people you know. all that is being asked is a signature!!

I agree with what you said about dissent in the movement keeps it in check - kind of like having a minorty/opposition government in place. However, this notion about PETA exploiting women irritates me. The women in PETA "I 'd rather go naked than wear fur campaign" did the campiagn because they CHOSE to do so - they chose to use their bodies and there sex appeal to get an anti-fur message out. And, furthermore, wasnt there men that have done similar "sexist" anit-fur ads for PETA? The guy from the young and the resless soap opera comes to mind. If these celebs want to lend their bodies for an anti-fur message, I have no problem with that and I dont think PETA is being sexist for "exploiting" these volunteers. Having said that, I dont think the "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" campaign was the most effective of their campaigns, and the slogan probably confused people. A better slogan that PETA used, with actress Charlize Theron's face, is the "If you woundnt wear your dog, then why would you wear fur?" campaign. Now this slogan in my opinion captures the point more effectively and there is nothing confusing about it. It is plain and simple and something that all pet parents/guardians can relate to. Lastly, I agree with everything Jonathan said about zoos. Most zoos are not "progressive " at all but rather simply a more subtle form of animal exploitation and cruelty. Zoos will tell you all this crap about how they exist for purposes of public education of animals and research about animals. That's all bull shit. Animal researchers for example would be better able to learn about animals when they are in their own natural habitats. Look at Jane Goodall for example, who studied chimps for many years, but not in a "zoo" setting. Sher is one of the world's foremost primate experts. This reminds me of a stupid commercial that is airing locally for the Toronto zoo. It shows a zoo official with a fake snake, "educating" the viewers/zoo goers about the snake, etc. and then the slogan is "Real animals are more fun." Well, again, this goes back to the problem with humans and their relationship with, and view of, animals. It is all about how animals can make US feel, and what they can do for US. It is rarely about the animals best interests. The commercial says "Real animals are more fun." Well, a zoo with real animals may be more "fun" for people, but it sure as hell aint more fun for the animals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! peace

Koll, I dont really think it is about "appeasing" the oppressors. I think it is chosing an approach that allows them to see the error of their ways, or invokes a change of heart in them. IT is about winning them over, not appeasing them. Again, the animals dont need us to be right, as much as they need us to be effective. Whatever gets people to stop and listen instead of running away from us and our message. peace

Totally. I think it's really cool that we can all exchange views in a noncombative way. It's very admirable and a sign of intellectual honesty for all on board. . Agreed!!!!