trying2bvegan

Yea that's a great idea I've considered that, especially because my soy yogurt comes out just a little on the liquidy side. Have you done this before? I know it will work, but I'm just thinking about cost. I'm always surprised at how little regular yogurt comes of a half-gallon of soymilk. If I drained enough liquid from it to make it the consistency (and in turn, protein content hopefully!) of greek yogurt, I'm worried I'd be left with very little "greek" yogurt for the expenditure. Does anyone have experience with this?

Greek yogurt is the absolute last vestige of non-vegan foods in my diet, but I'm having a hard time getting rid of it. For around $3 per container, I get 46g of high quality protein that isn't a powder but an actual food (I'm not anti-powders, but I believe pretty strongly that 1 shake a day is enough and the rest of the time whole foods should be consumed). I need to get this cruel food out of my diet for GOOD. I already have what I consider to be too much soy protein in my diet. I've made my own soy yogurt in times past, and would nevertheless still be willing to make soy "greek" yogurt if that is possible and economical. Does anyone have experience with that? I'd just have to do some shuffling to remove soy in my diet elsewhere I guess.

ouch! what happened to your shoulder? how'd you do it? thanks for the well wishes. i'm taking it slow....don't want to let this develop into something chronic!

thanks everybody i really appreciate it! i've had my fill of doctors appointments lately (and food!). i'm on the road to recovery, many rubber bands, MRIs, x-rays, and vegetables later

already scheduled back-2-back-2-back orthopedist, chiro, and PT appointments i'm hoping MRI's, x-rays and magic hands will get me on the fast track to getting back at the BAR! damn tator cuff, f-in with my plans.

Teh abz? Not too sure what that is. I am very healthy already. But I'm injured, so I won't be doing any lifting at all. That's kinda the point. And if I don't adjust my diet, I'll be taking in nearly 1000 extra cals a day. I'd be gaining pounds by the week. I'm not OCD about BF, but I'm not about to eat like like I'm kicking my ass in the gym when I'm just sitting on it

Thanks Phil. I actually do train my rotator cuffs, but certainly not every workout because I train 6x/week when I'm healthy. I'm familiar with a lot of exercises, I generally do: laying down ext rotation, standing up cable or band ext/int rotation, cuban curls, face pulls, etc. I also do shoulder circles, scap push ups, wall slides and a couple other things for warming up. What do you do to train your rotator cuffs? Could you give me an example day or two? Clearly whatever I was doing wasn't enough or wasn't exactly the best exercises. Thanks again Phil.

I've been working out for about a year now, and with a distant history (10 years ago I was a pitcher) of rotator cuff aggravation...I've always been conservative with pushing my shoulder workouts (i.e., minimal overhead presses or lateral raises, try to incorporate band work and external rotation exercises as much as possible, etc). Nevertheless, during a holiday and illness-induced hiatus from the gym...my R shoulder mysteriously started hurting while I was just relaxing at home. Maybe 5 out of 10 pain. Like a decent sprain would feel 1 week post-injury. I've since avoided the gym like the plague, and will do so as long as it takes for this to completely heal. I've been icing, ibuprofen, even started glucosamine/chondroitin, the whole 9 yards. For people with rotator cuff issues...how long did it take until you felt 100% back to normal? Do you have any advice? Thanks so much, I really appreciate it!

Hey Everybody...so I've been totally side-lined from the gym for the past couple weeks due to a knee AND rotator cuff injury (ouch!)...and to be safe I'm steering clear of working out for another couple weeks. Just doing some stretching, PT, and gettin' my share of x-rays, MRI, chiro adjustments, etc. My question is: how do you all eat during a complete hiatus from the gym? I normally eat around 4,000 cals and burn between 400-800 in the gym (roughly). I'm eating less meals to lower my calories obviously (5x-6x a day down from 7x/day) to minimize fat gain....but what about protein intake? It seems a little silly to be taking in ~1-1.5g/lb/day when I have virtually no physical activity. At the same time, I'm worried about losing the muscle mass I've worked so hard to gain the past year. Thanks so much everybody!!

Hey All, I'm up to 15% after about 8 months of bulking. I used to be around 11% or so. I have a little bit of a gut now, which is new for me, but I ABSOLUTELY want to keep bulking and keep gaining mass for as long as possible. I asked in another post if bulking continuously is advisable, but assuming it isn't completely unhealthy or foolish, is there a maximum recommended BF% for bulking? As a hardgainer, I have no problem losing weight, so whatever BF% range is optimal for bulking I will go with, even if it's higher than 15%...though I suspect it's not. Thanks! -Steve

Hey Folks, I apologize if this has already been answered in a previous thread - I'm working 75 hour work weeks these days, leaving me much less time to do my research! Please pardon my potentially redundant post. Since Jan 2009, I went from about 170lbs 11.5% BF to about 192lbs 14.6%BF. While eventually I'd like to be in the 7-8%BF range, for the time being (likely the next 1-2years) I'm primarily focused on gaining as much muscle mass as possible. I have no problem losing weight, so have no interest in cutting for quite some time. My question is this: given my goals and hardgainer metabolism, can I essentially "bulk" continuously (i.e., 1+ year) without ever adding a cutting phase? Or is it more beneficial in terms of maximizing nutrient absorption and other factors to add a cutting phase or two? I eat extremely clean, and track my diet pretty meticulously. Thanks everyone, you've been a great help! -Steve

In my experience (I grew up rural NY), chickens in any living situation tend to abandon their unfertilized eggs after a day or two of "incubating" them. They seem to be able to tell when it is not a viable egg - that, or they are indifferent (I doubt the latter highly). I have found this egg-abandonment to be true of most all chickens, whether they are in a totally unnatural setting (e.g., very large farms that have almost industrial-scale living quarters for their hens) or are TRULY "free range" (e.g., the old woman up the street who had 85 acres, three hens, and one cock). To me, I am having trouble seeing why it is unethical to collect eggs left behind by truly free-range hens. The author of this post would not have truly free-range hens, of course, but I am curious as to what other vegans think about collecting eggs that would otherwise be consumed by other animals. I'm not sure I buy the exploitation argument.

Marcina, thanks for your reply! So I've been eating 7x a day, with LOTS of water and obviously plenty of fiber. 7:30AM, 10AM, 12PM, 2:30PM, 4:45PM are meal times. Gym from 6-7, gulp down a shake afterwards, and eat again at 9:15PM. Bed @ 10:30. The problem is...I eat a shit ton o' food so each of these meals takes between 15-30 minutes (if I'm lucky, since I'm at work and often get distracted) to chomp down. So while I've planned to eat every 2-3 hours, it ends up being more like every 1.5-2.5 hours. Sometimes I feel like I'm forcing it, but I think that's a necessary component of getting significantly bigger. As for the whole protein intake issue, I think I'm going to have to disagree with you on one point - the point about healthy, active individuals. I naturally agree no one with pre-existent kidney or liver issues should adopt a high-protein diet. Again, I'm no expert here (unlike my vegan, nutrition PhD sisters who are constantly warning me about my potential dietary changes), but from what I understand, what I would classify as VERY high protein intake (1.7-2g/lb/day) puts a good deal of strain on the livers and kidneys of even the "healthiest," most active individuals, even if they do make a point to significantly increase their water intake (which will of course alleviate some strain). High protein intake may be sustainable in the short term, especially when one is seeking strength and mass gains and is on the younger side agewise, but I doubt such a high-intake will lead to optimal health over the long term. I'll try to post some studies to the forum. I think there is a lot of credible (albeit inconvenient) research out there to back up my fears and suspicions I say "inconvenient" because I want to get big and strong, while not compromising my overall health.

I am a registered Republican, thank you. My brother also just returned from his fourth tour in Iraq. VJ, stop being so scary man. And try going outside. From my estimation, you're online 10 out of every 14 waking hours...mostly just monopolizing threads and intimidating people. I know that can be amusing (I enjoy it occasionally), but try giving it a rest once in a while. With that, I take my comments off the air. Proceed to tear me a new asshole. I could care less.

This thread raises my BP and lowers my IQ. I suspect it has the same effect on others.

grazie mille! also...just so i'm not comparing apples to oranges here. can you tell me your gender/weight/ht/build/etc? thanks a lot!

what are you referring to tasha?

Pegesus, can you send me an example your meal schedule/contents for a day? Thank you! I'm already eating 200-210g/protein/day which I personally feel is adequate, so I'll probably keep that where it is for a while unless I really begin to plateau. Both my sisters are vegans, both have PhD's in nutrition, and they're constantly talking my ear off about how even my current protein intake is unhealthy, weight training goals or not. I'm not educated enough to argue with them on this point, but I am admittedly weary of jacking my intake even higher. I eat a lot of fat (nuts) because they are calorically dense and I can't imagine putting any more volume in my stomach (e.g., from carbs) to get the equivalent amount of calories. I'm already bloated, haha! Per your advice (and what I've heard from others), I'm going to try for a 50/20/30 (carb/PROTEIN/fat) ratio. Not exactly identical to yours, but definitely less fat considering I was at 40% before!

Hey All, I'm trying to gain significant amount of muscle via a *semi*-permanent change in my dietary lifestyle (permanently vegan, but just changing my macro-ratios and caloric intake for a while). I made some changes a few weeks ago and was surprised at the results. I just want to make sure I'm on track and not doing myself a disservice because frankly I look weird now. 3 weeks ago: ~3,800cals; fat (40%), carb (36%), protein (24%); weight 183lbs Since then: ~4,000-4,300cals; fat (~35%), carb (~45%), protein (~19% at 200g/day); weight ~190lbs A seven pound gain for my body is unheard of, especially in such a short time frame. I'd love it, except for the fact that alllll that weight seems to be sitting in my gut. The only change I made was less fat and more carbs, I was not getting fat this quickly before despite having a high-fat diet. I have an unsightly kangaroo pouch now, and I feel rather bloated. Sometimes when I eat my stomach hurts. Is this normal? I want to gain muscle, not a belly...unless of course that belly will redistribute and change into extra muscle more readily. Should I maintain and tough it out, or are further tweaks in order? How does everyone else feel when they bulk? Thanks so much everybody, you've been a great help! -Steve

i might be crazy but it's only been two weeks since i really modified my diet (400-500 more cals, mostly from carbs) and i think it's already working! stepped on a scale today....188.6, 11% bodyfat, up from 184.0 and 10% (ish) a very short time ago! this is officially the heaviest I've ever been. Crazy to think I was 168.0 around New Years. recent quick gains may have something to do with the fact i haven't been working out much at all this week. usually go 6 times a week, dropped it down to 2 days this week since i smacked the soft tissue around my knee extra hard last sunday on the metal corner of a coffee table....OW. so i avoided my 2 lower body workouts and my 2 cardio days and stuck only with upper body. happy with the gains, gonna definitely keep the carbs intake up!

so i think rather than cut back on fats, i'm just gonna jack my carb intake as best as possible. that should reduce the overall % of cals from fats somewhat, and of course reduce overall % of cals from protein as well but i don't see that as a concern as i'm getting well over 1g/lb/day anyway. my concern with cutting back on fats and "replacing them" with carbs is that i will risk lowering my caloric intake. for my body, lowering caloric intake spells withering away to nothing and getting blown away by the first stiff breeze. its much easier to get calories from nuts than it is from breads, veggies, grains, etc....so i'll just keep chompin' away on nuts and add as much carbs as my belly can possibly handle. good plan?

Oh also, my diet is so high in fats (I mean, is it?) because I eat about 1c of mixed raw nuts a day, and have olive oil in my rather epic salads. I can't imagine the volume of food I'd have to eat if I was replacing calories from these dense, fatty sources with something like bread! Eek! Any tips or tricks if replacing some of my fats with more carbs is the correct course of action here?

Whoa! Lots of spirited back and forth going on here! I clicked on "View My Posts" and saw 24 responses...and thought for a moment I was more popular than I actually am. Damn. So yea, I'm this string beany 6'2" guy who has a lot of trouble putting on muscle/mass despite mondo dedication in the gym. I've put on probably 12-15 pounds in the last 6 months, but thats only with eating 3,600-3,800cals/day, meals every 2-3 hours since New Years. Again my ratios are something like 40% fats (walnuts, almonds, avocado, olive oil, Earth Balance), 36% carbs (quinoa, brown rice, homemade breads, etc), and 23% protein (nuts, seeds, soy products, phasing out egg whites as the last relic of my non-vegan past). The thing is, I know my body and if I stopped this routine for oh, say, a week? I'd be right back to square 1 at 168 pounds. I lose it insanely fast, and put it on slower than a snail traveling through freshly laid concrete. I'm frankly pretty astounded I've been able to gain what I have been so far. A little out of character for my body! Trying to establish a general consensus here though: more carbs and less fat? Do people (preferably with knowledge/research to back you up, no disrespect!) agree on this? What ratios have you found most effective for hardgainers such as my self? Thanks everyone, and happy eatin'! -Steve

Hey All, So I've got to food journalling the past few weeks, and finally got to number crunching. I'm not concerned at all about the types of foods I'm eating (so long as they're vegan, wholesome, and nutritious), but more the relative amounts of each. Can some of you knowledgeable folks advise me whether my macros/calorie-intake is off the mark for my goals? I'm 6'2", 180lbs, 11-14% BF, 24yo male who has a pretty darn fast metabolism and has trouble packing on muscle. I'd really like to see myself up to 200 in the next 6 months. Average day: 162g fat (all healthy sources), 322g carbs (likewise), 203g protein Total calories: 3,810 Breakdown (% of cals): 40% from fats, 36% from carbs, 23% from protein Too much fat maybe? Not enough carbs? More/less calories? Any advise would be greatly, greatly appreciated! Thanks All! Steve

Hey All, I find this topic very interesting, as I am a biologist and geneticist by trade. I've asked myself the same question (i.e., what do some of our closest ancestors eat?), and in seeking out some answers I've spoken with individuals much more knowledgeable than myself in the fields of comparative physiology, genetics, evo-devo (the study of evolution as it pertains to developmental biology), and the like. They've made some very interesting points which I think need to be part of this discussion. I'm curious as to what you all think. 1. "Be wary of percentages". Pick any organism in the plant/animal kingdom and you will find we share a surprising amount of DNA in common. For example, while we share 98%(+) with certain primate species, we also share 95% with most species of mice, 60-70% with most species of flies, and a documented ~50% with bananas (yes, bananas). It does not necessarily follow that because an organism shares more DNA in common with us that its dietary habits more closely resemble our own (or that we should look to their diet as a model). There are a few reasons for this. For starters, overall % of DNA in common is not nearly as relevant as how much of specific types of DNA we have in common: namely, those genes that dictate the anatomical and biochemical characteristics of the digestive tract. Species that share considerable amount of overall DNA can have profound differences in these genes. What's more, even among individual species (e.g., chimpanzees), dietary habits can vary considerably from one sub-population to the next. This is not even counting drastic differences in diets when these animals are forced into captivity. Anytime you see an overall percentage sited as a reason to eat like a certain animal, please be cautious. 2. Evo-Devo considerations: While one might think that an animal we more recently diverged from in the evolutionary tree must share more of our overall characteristics and therefore serve as a model to us, there is considerable mutation to and away from certain features (i.e., genetic "toggling" between types of digestion/digestive capabilities, modes of locomotion, etc.). For example, many species in our overall genetic lineage CANNOT digest cellulose, but punctuated in between these species are animals that CAN (e.g., gorillas). Humans arise after cellulose-digesting primates, only to lose the ability to digest cellulose. What that means is that there very well may be a species prior to our most recent ancestor that shares more similar digestive characteristics with humans. After speaking at length with a mentor of mine, a 70-year old comparitive digestive physiologist (DVM/MD/PhD) who worked at Harvard and Cornell for the better part of a half-century, I am convinced that modeling our diet after primates is a fools errand. He cautions me against such narrow interpretations, but if you really want to go down the road of genetics, consider this: looking specifically at the genes that dictate digestive physiology (i.e., anatomy AND the all-important biochemistry), we actually have a system that most closely resembles North American bear species. I am not advocating modeling after a bear, nor do I consider this factoid super relevant, but I thought it was worth pointing out. As a last point, I know that people often cite dentition as an indicator of appropriate diet, but please also take caution here. We have retained the dentition of cellulose-digesting species, while seemingly losing all biochemical capability of adapt to such a diet. Translation? Evolution isn't perfect. I have no answers here, only words of caution. What do you all think? Best, Steve