BigG.

Seems like more and more are showing courage and speaking out.

Some good is coming out of the media sometimes.

These guys are great

Take Care,

Big G.

What Robert and VeganEssentials wrote on the first page really is the truth. When you're bulking, you eat. You cram high quantities of calorie-dense foods together and eat that shiz right up. I haven't bulked since becoming vegan, but my omnivore stuff was absolutely insane. I'd eat a pound of meat and double that in vegetables in one meal. It's that kind of quantity you're looking for if you want to bulk. Bulking is deliberate. It does not happen on accident (except for when you eat half a jar of delicious PB, lol), and that's what I tell people when I'm at work because, seriously, they seem to think that shiz is something that can accidentally pop onto them overnight. Muscle is deliberate, bulking is deliberate. You must deliberately eat lots of food that is high in calories.

Yes but make sure the food is what agrees with you. Makes no sense to me to eat foods that simply do not work in my body. Each one of us is designed a bit different for example I do not like grapefruit.

Sleep should be based on quality as well.

I get minimum 8 hours.

Maybe you can be a bit more specific on what you will do on the days for example Heavy lifting Upper.

I believe by doing so you might also learn something by simply typing it out.

My advice would be wait for Robert Cheek's book to be released, then follow his advice on diet and training and you should be able to create a decent, muscular body on a vegan diet. Also try eating this:

 

THE NO-MEAT MENU

 

THIS ONE-DAY VEGAN PLAN WILL HELP YOU BUILD MUSCLE AND BURN FAT

 

BREAKFAST

 

OATMEAL

1 cup oats (measured dry)

1/4 cup walnuts

1/4 cup raisins

8 oz soy milk

 

MID AFTERNOON SNACK

 

SHAKE

1 1/2 servings of Vega meal-replacement

powder

1 cup mixed berries (strawberries

and blueberries)

 

MIDMORNING SNACK

 

SHAKE

1 1/2 servings of Vega meal-replacement

powder

1 cup mixed berries

(strawberries and blueberries)

 

DINNER

 

LENTIL STEW

1 1/2 cups lentils (measured

cooked)

1 cup barley (measured

cooked)

2 cups broccoli

 

 

LUNCH

 

VEGETARIAN BURGERS

2 Boca Burgers with

lettuce, tomato, and onion

1 whole-grain pita

8 oz yam

 

NIGHTTIME SNACK

 

PB&J SANDWICH

2 tbsp natural peanut butter

2 tbsp All Fruit Spread

2 slices whole-grain bread

8 oz rice milk

2 tbsp rice protein powder

 

TOTALS 3,560 calories

216 grams protein

510 grams carbs

73 grams fat

Hi,

You must have a lot of gas eating all this mix.

Don't mean to be blunt but gee I try to keep things simple.

Thank you for sharing.

 

Can you build muscle mass on kettle balls or is it more for tone and conditiong?

 

Do you think it would be to much if you did the alternate days in a gym?

 

I've only messed around with kettlebells a few times, but to put it simply -

 

Just think of them as being like any regular dumbbell, but with the handle positioned differently, and nothing else. There's no more magic to them than doing dumbbell training, just that the handle position offers a few different (or, at least, easier) options for movements, but other than that, they're going to give the same result as they're the same thing. If you train heavy with lower reps, you can build strength and mass with them, but the more recent trend has been for conditioning purposes with higer rep stuff, so the bulk of people tend to gravitate toward them for conditioning over using them for building lots of size. Considering the terribly expensive prices on heavy KBs (not to mention, the really big ones look way more awkward than using a same-weight DB), there aren't many people who tend to venture to have KBs that go really heavy. Considering that I've seen sites selling a 48kg (106 lb.) KB for around $220 plus $70 shipping (apparently, they've yet to discover that you CAN fit many things of that size in a flat-rate postal box ), you're looking at $600 just for a pair if you built up the strength to make do with that kind of weight. Needless to say, most of us will stick with good 'ol DBs, but KBs are a fun diversion and definitely can kick your butt for conditioning. But, for standard training on most compound lifts, there's little need to use them specifically, as they don't really offer any major benefit for lower to moderate rep training programs revolving around compound lifts.

Hi,

VE your a smart person I was thinking the same things.

Thanks for your valueable input.

Take Care,

I dont really think a meal plan is all that necessary. Eating raw and vegan is very simple.

 

You can definately gain on a raw vegan diet. As they say, as long as you get enough calories from fresh fruits and vegetables, you are getting all the necessary amino acids, vitamins, minerals, anything you can ask for.

 

Yes, BANANAS are a great fruit that are extremely convenient and high in nutrient-rich calories (especially if they are organic bananas). Dates are also a very good food and have alot of good calories. I wouldnt consume a multivitamin because fresh fruits and veggies give you all the nutrition you need. For nuts and seeds, they may be very high in calories, but watch on how many you consume, try to get your calories from mostly fruits (and veggies). Too many fats can stress your digestion and drain vital energy.

 

Eat lots of fruit salads and green leafy salads!

 

 

Good luck!!!

Very good recommendations.

I to feel if I eat to many nuts and seeds it takes away from my performance.

Fruits and veggies is were it is at.

I have read some of Vinces stuff and I can start to understand his market.

Young guys who have low self esteem and want a quick fix.

Here is one of his videos

I do notice that may of his testimonials are younger teenagers it doesn't take much at that age to notice results faster.

He forgets to share that

Not sure if I am correct but the leg extensions just by the nature of the machine would seem to be more harmful to the knees then doing squats properly.

 

Which is very true, but somehow, the "get more for doing less" crowd has convinced too many people that squats will ruin their knees, even though it's a natural movement compared to leg pressing, leg extensions, etc. People don't want to do what's challenging yet effective, they want to sit on a padded seat, watch the TV in the corner, and carry on a conversation with the person next to them. That's what a leg extension machine is made for

 

In that original site Vince mentions the following

 

the twelve anabolic targets of bodybuilding that make up the Maximize Your Muscle system.

 

I have no clue what he is typing about is it but another gimmick?

 

I have not heard any other person say such things and I use to read a lot of the older stuff awhile ago.

 

What he is showing in the 12 points isn't really too much hype, but he's making things sound overly complex, as if there's something magical necessary to cover all the factors in the 12 points. That's the part that's hype - it's not as complicated to make progress as he's alluding to, and you don't need to take all those factors into consideration for designing an effective program (not to mention, you'll be covering multiple "points" in the list just by doing, say, a set of squats, and you'll never even know it ) Using squats for example again, you're going to induce hypertrophy for muscle growth by doing them (there's always debate on the ideal set/rep scheme for optimal hypertrophy for each person, but that's a different thread in and of itself), and you're going to increase muscle density via squats as well, covering point #2. And you will be training and taxing your central nervous system by squatting as per point #3....you get the picture He's good at making this sound far too complicated, and yet, in all these points, there's no mention of the factors including ideal nutrition for recovery and growth and other important factors. But, the big words that make people "oooh" and "aaahhh" are what sells, so he chooses to make things look complicated to dazzle those who don't know, and that's when the money comes rolling in.

Thanks interesting point you mentioned about squats. I see so many different attempts at this I see the dudes who stack up the weights and barely are able to bend there knees because of it then I see the ones who put so little weight that I wonder if the are just stretching?

I do find if one is doing squats technique is very important.

about comment on tv and equipment.

I do find it interesting that just as in the Grocery stores the areas of importance such as fruits and veggies are taking up less space and more junk food is taking up more space. Just like the gym the important free weights is being taken over by the junk gimmicks.

I agree I would love to know what his nutrition stance is because I know of some gimmicks that can make you look bigger but you will pay a price down the road.

In that original site Vince mentions the following

the twelve anabolic targets of bodybuilding that make up the Maximize Your Muscle system.

I have no clue what he is typing about is it but another gimmick?

I have not heard any other person say such things and I use to read a lot of the older stuff awhile ago.

Wow Bill Pearl haven't heard that name in a long time.

 

I agree with your intelligent posts.

 

What I do find in my gym which I started over 2 months ago is the bizarre things I see people doing to try to become more fit.

 

I remember 15 years ago it was pretty basic but now it seems to be more confusing and gimmicky.

 

You mentioned progress at a rapid rate is this as a result of the equipment available or the knowledge of the importance of rest etc.?

 

I've always been a big fan of Pearl, so that's why I chose to use him as a reference for my example He was big AND strong, and apparently, still is in fantastic condition for his age to this day and trains regularly (I'm sure his changing to a vegetarian diet has had a lot to do with this ) But, he was from an era where strength AND health were intertwined, where now people gladly sacrifice health just to speed up progress, which goes against what many of the old-timers believed in.

 

Things are definitely more gimmicky now. When you could simply do barbell squats and build massive, powerful legs, you can now find a huge assortment of leg training machines in any gym that won't do as much, but they're a lot easier to train on than working hard with an extremely effective movement like squats. People want something flashy and want to get more for doing less, and that's what many pieces of equipment and many gimmicks promise, but don't deliver on. Many people who get into lifting think about it too much, get confused, fall for the "easy" way out because it's more attractive, and are eventually discouraged by the lack of progress. That's why keeping it simple is best - a guy who wants to build massive legs doesn't need to worry about isolating his quads, he needs to focus on stimulating the most muscle fiber in the most effective manner (again, using squats as an example), but that's not as fun as sitting on that shiny new leg extension machine over in the corner

 

Without a doubt, there are developments over the past few decades that have helped to speed up progress because they do work. And conversely, there were bad machines, bad routines, and bad supplements long ago as well, so it wasn't all perfect in the past. Wading through the junk to find the good stuff is getting tougher because the junk seems to be outweighing quality info by a huge ratio and gets worse as time goes on. I don't think that a progression in equipment has had a huge impact on our ability to get results more quickly - I attribute it more to science in the way of training programs and optimal nutrition, which has a lot more room for improvement over trying to find a new way to get better results via an exercise for a specific body part. As far as I can tell, powerlifting is about the only sect of weight training where new equipment has seemed to actually do good for helping people progress, while in bodybuilding the addition of new machines and such only gets people further away from the basics that have always worked well.

 

I could go on about this for hours, but I'm hoping to get out of the office before the sun comes up, so I'll have to save the rest of my rantings for tomorrow!

I appreciate your rants

I appreciate the old timers in the book Arnolds Shwarzenegers Enclyopedia which I still have almost 20 years later the Photos of the columbo, zanes.etc. are fascinating.

For those that may not know about Bill I figure I would post the following

http://www.vegetarianwomen.com/articles/bill_pearl.html

Bill still gets up regularly at 3:00 a.m. to train six days a week,

Funny on what the main url is. Oh well.

Not to go off here but I have increased by regiment to 6 days now to see how things are because of this I am in the gym more often so I get to see things more often as well.

I do notice the same guys doing the same machines all the time and what is amazing to me is the way people move the weight like they are on a stop watch and the more you swing the weight the better I guess.

After a long absence from the gym I am amazed at how the gym at least in my area has changed in regards to the type of training that goes on.

Not sure if I am correct but the leg extensions just by the nature of the machine would seem to be more harmful to the knees then doing squats properly.

Do you guys feel that with time the concept of bodybuilding has changed or are the basics always the same and the rest are gimmicky.

 

Bodybuilding has evolved in many ways over the decades (not always in a good way), but the essences of it will always remain the same. Train hard AND intelligently, get the necessary nutrition and plenty of rest, keep stress levels low, etc...those are all factors that have been constant regardless of whether you're talking about this moment or 100 years ago. Unfortunately, along with the progress and science that have made it easier to progress at a more rapid rate, there's been a ton of junk to go with it, which only makes things more confusing by making the core of bodybuilding seem less than effective compared to the junk. Not to say that there isn't a lot of good that's come out in the past decade as far as things that can be of benefit, but if people like Bill Pearl, John Grimek and others were able to build massive, powerful physiques 50 years ago with simple training programs, simple equipment and simple diets with minimal or no supplements beyond maybe some protein powders and a multi-vitamin, then it goes to show how much crap there is out there. Where there's a chance to make a dollar or make a name for yourself, the snake oil salesmen will be there, and we've been in that era for a long time now. Keep it simple, don't stress too much complexity until the simple things are no longer as effective, and good things will happen!

Wow Bill Pearl haven't heard that name in a long time.

I agree with your intelligent posts.

What I do find in my gym which I started over 2 months ago is the bizarre things I see people doing to try to become more fit.

I remember 15 years ago it was pretty basic but now it seems to be more confusing and gimmicky.

You mentioned progress at a rapid rate is this as a result of the equipment available or the knowledge of the importance of rest etc.?

at least 60

I'll chime in here. Check out stronglifts.com. It's an in-depth, no-nonsense site with lots of information. It's all free too, though later I'd recommend investing in Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. They both follow the same principles of strength/barbell training, but SS is more thorough as far as the lifts go. Take one of those programs, add a caloric surplus, and you will get bigger and stronger.

Spent some time on the 5X5 site very well done and I love the links as a reference to the excercises.

Thanks for taking the time to chime about this.

Glad to see some recommendations!

 

Speaking of Rippetoe, I hadn't seen this quote of his before, but I'm considering changing it to be my new signature:

 

"There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy."

- Mark Rippetoe

 

Interesting quote.

When I was in the army it was the same thing we got in shape because when we got down and dirty of course the leverage of do or get duty was another motivating factor.

I'll chime in here. Check out stronglifts.com. It's an in-depth, no-nonsense site with lots of information. It's all free too, though later I'd recommend investing in Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. They both follow the same principles of strength/barbell training, but SS is more thorough as far as the lifts go. Take one of those programs, add a caloric surplus, and you will get bigger and stronger.

Thanks love the avatar by the way.

Kind of lord of the rings feel to it.

I will check that out.

Do you guys feel that with time the concept of bodybuilding has changed or are the basics always the same and the rest are gimmicky.

It's probably just like the thousand other sites out there that have similar things for sale. If you have doubts, then by all means, don't buy into it.

 

By the way, I did a bit of simple math to check the lucrative potential of selling such a system -

 

Claim of 20,000 people "helped" via his program, with current pricing at $264.75 for the initial package (I'm not even going to touch the $49.95/month for his other stuff). Total amount, $5,295,000.00 in product sold. Divide that by the 8 years he notes that he's been "helping people", and you get a pretty tidy sales figure of $661,875.00 per year. Again, I didn't even factor in monthly fees for the extras and all the other stuff. Even with printing costs, etc., I'd be quite happy if I could simply throw out a package deal and make $400k/year or so as a fitness "guru". Claiming to be able to help everyone get in shape is big business, and you have to stand out to make the big bucks, hence all these testimonials of people making progress that's either at the top of the potentail, or, making outlandish statements where it's claimed that so-and-so lost 30 lbs. of fat and gained 15 lbs. of muscle in 8 weeks. That's a load of rubbish, but people fall for it. It's slick salesmanship for what's probably a mediocre program, nothing more.

 

Again, there's probably a lot of info in there that's useful to people who have no grasp on diet or training, but if the claims were universal for everyone who used it, that guy would be a billionaire and we'd all be bowing down to his shrine right now. Since that isn't the case, I'll just call it one more program in a sea of hype that doens't pay off the returns it says it will give.

Thanks I value your opinion.

Your calculations are pretty good.

The question I wondered was OK how do we know these testimonials are his or true. Yes the photos are one thing but can one ever really know?

What is your opinion of good free sources for maximum results for weight training?

Thanks but I am not after your money.

So not all are like this.

I don't mind someone providing a service and asking for a reasonable fee if the service is worthy but I wondered about this website.

It seems awfully suspect.

http://maximizeyourmuscle.com/

Seems to be saying allot of things.

I agree the rest is non-essential to quality building blocks.

so? and what kind of problems exactly?

Diabetes,

Heart Problems,

Stress on the Liver, kidneys

Cooked fat vegan is still not that healthy.

Healthier to get most of your calories from veggies and fruits.

Been a vegan about a year now and i'm not happy with my "skinny-ness"...I once had a nice "thickish" build, but in those days i was still a carnivore....I was eating alot of calories..high protein - animal protein... gave it up ...So, what do I do? As a vegan .. that wants a muscular bod?????

The funny thing is alot of it was probably bloating.

You are smart to have given it up for you and the our friends.

Train right

Eat right

Sleep Right

Think Right

Drink Right

Good life fitness

Many of our forum members have lost or maintained body fat on a "high" fat diet.

For the record, I have to hide peanut butter in our storage unit because I've been known to polish off 1/2 a jar in an evening.

 

me too haha! I have a ridiculously high-fat diet: nuts, sunflower seeds, peanut butter smoothies, avocados, olive oil, easily over 100 grams a day haha.

I would be really careful with a high fat diet.

It can cause big time problems down the road.

yes. my gym is offering this class starting next week so I can't wait! Hope it's fun.

Cool have fund you seem really nice enjoy.

Thank you for sharing.

Can you build muscle mass on kettle balls or is it more for tone and conditiong?

Do you think it would be to much if you did the alternate days in a gym?