Epi-Gen

I can be a pretty tolerant person but... Ducati you have hi-jacked my thread. You have done it by speaking for ectomorphs and endmorphs. Now you are speaking for women as well. If I was an endomorph I would be very offended that you find things that could describe me as degrading. Considering small amount of muscle that might leave me in the ecto-mesomorph range I got to say stop talking for me. I highly appreciate being skinny after growing up overweight. I could not care less if I never bulk up even if I want to be fit. If you have a problem with people having low self esteem stop empowering the words that are offensive through empowerment. Have you ever considered how long certain issues are prolonged by the activism against them through people not subject to the issues? Not everyone is a Buddhist or a child. People have to want to see things in themselves. Pushing your ideas down their throat like they do not know what is best for them I doubt is the answer. Being an endomorph does not mean you are big or overweight. It means you have more endodermic tissue, and MAY be prone to gaining weight and having trouble losing it COMPARED to others. You brought the problems to this thread and I do not appreciate it or your demeanor. This is my last post because I want nothing to do with such an aggressive forum.

Please do not call it eugenics. Eugenics is an entirely different thing and implies things people might actually see as extremely offensive. Collect data? Well you just have to read the posts; this is nothing official. You have more genetic information than is expressed - a lot more in fact. That is why the term epigenetics is used and yes it is primarily the only thing we can and do see between living things without a microscope. I could made a post asking if everyone had genetic information from what part of Europe, Africa, Asia, whatever, that your mitochondrial DNA was traced back to but... it is not very interesting information to body building and I would of got less replies and probably more controversial replies. Gynic men have bigger leg muscles typically. Less work for them in body building. Andric women tend to be amazing athletes. Plus once again the fashion world likes andric women, so it is all personal opinion. Funny enough the ability to roll ones tongue is a genetic quality if I am not mistaken. If your ear lob (where the piercing typically is for pierced ears) is connected to your head or not is another. Dimples (face), windows peak, and a few other things are too. That is to say they are traits that differ within humans and not just from family lineages; they are dominate or not traits. (not that dominate ones in many cases mean anything other than the fact it usually is chosen when the DNA compiling from both parents happens)

I am sure a lot of mesomorphs are jealous of your sheer size VeganEssentials. You look like a great example of why endomorphs do not have to fear anything. Well so far you do contribute to the ongoing longer ring fingers! P.S. a lot of people want to be as thin as that ectomorph in the drawing that is quiet silly. I could wear small children pants with women's t-shirts and if I put on sun glasses look like a rock star if I was that size! I see nothing wrong with that.

I am simply going to have to disagree, strongly. If I am labeling, I am doing it to everyone. I have not given any particular personal preference to any of them. For all you know I find mesomorphs unattractive and useless because in times of war they are expensive to feed and not capable of running long enough distances to be worthwhile in the athletic endurance world. What difference does it really make? That is my opinion not yours. Perhaps you missed the part where I said an endomorph does not have to be overweight. Many endomorphs feel there is no way for them to lose weight so they do not try. What is the difference between me telling them it is possible but not easy if they stopped trying or if they have yet to start. What is wrong with giving someone the truth, that typically endomorphs have a harder time losing weight, what is wrong with facts? Besides "not being easy" might just mean you do not drop 10lbs a week, you drop 3lbs or 1lb, it is still something. Had I met you as a child I would of told that you can get in shape if you want to with the right diet and exercise, and if you asked me why you were not already like so and so I would tell you because everyone is different. You are making the terms endomorph and ectomorph degrading. YOU ARE by SAYING THEY ARE. Have you considered how many people reading this did not think the terms endomorph or ectomorph where offensive until you said they were? The world over different people value different body types. It is a matter of view, and I am trying to work with it objectively. You view the labels endomorph and ectomorph as degrading to use so best to avoid altogether. I view that as neglecting truth, lying to oneself. At the base of the names is the type of tissue that is dominate. It is not some fantasy description. It is like saying I am offending people for saying you either have blond, brown, black, or red hair (and mixings) under the precondition that you only value blond so by ignoring truth I am saving people from themselves (? that is weird). If you consider that being overweight is by all known medicine putting people at higher risk for disease then recognizing they are overweight so they can make changes seems pretty smart to me. The same goes for people that are deathly underweight and need to gain enough weight to survive the next flu that goes around. You can stop pulling the "I was an overweight child and young man" thing because I was too. I got told all sorts of total beeswax all the time by everyone I knew. I still found a way to change that for myself because I wanted too even after trying so much and failing, even after being told some people are just bigger or have a harder time, blah blah blah. It is anecdotal and there is power behind it but rival in that we are two examples of people that made changes even if it was not easy or required the right strategy, not our painful childhood misfortune.

I am not a proponent of wasting resources, so use what you got, sure, but you could always not buy a large amount and try something new briefly. Anyways best of luck to everyone.

You know what I am not going to worry about classifying people. I do not want to purposely offend anyone but I have limits on sheltering people from reality. It is like stereotypes, they come from somewhere even if they can be offensive and wrong for many people. I also do not see any connection to Sheldon, somatypes, and Hitler. I can not cater to insecurities anymore than I have been. If you think you fit a statistic then maybe you should do something about it. I think a lot of people here, including you (Ducati), have. If you felt you were part of the obese statistics Ducati then you are certain proof that you can make the effort to change it. Perhaps it is the spin we look at it. If you are overweight then there is little sense in denying it but no one wants to be called "fatso" or anything like that. Instead of alienating the person you can treat them normally and encourage them when they want to change. Those are two very different things, and I am only getting the latter on this board - I see no one putting people down, only encouraging. Ducati be careful because there may not really be anything there but you keep looking until you find something to be concerned with. Reality is there are differences between people. Knowing and understanding can help people reach goals and fight/avoid problems. We can not always just pretend everything is alright when we ourselves are at peace but those we speak to are not. That is the mentality most doctors and nutritionist take. They think everything else is wrong and only what they have to say works and it comes naturally for someone not in a position of being unhappy with their health/weight/muscle. There may be some level of acceptance involved with all things. Anyways this is all a bit off topic. I will share despite my frame size leaning towards being ecto-mesomorph or mesomorph more likely, I was very overweight for a long time. However while my approach is different now I use to gain strength fast when weight lifting. It came pretty easy and naturally. Just to say that is several people posting showing similar things, that they have high growth rate factors, were exposed to testosterone (fingers). That may not mean we are better at muscle development anymore than it might mean we are drawn towards it but all of us did show up on here.

Vegimator what can I say? If you feel you have no B12 issues then I am happy for you. However for anyone else that does not feel they are in the same position maybe trying to argue that something that has technically less harmful to health - even if the harmful component is considered at an innate dosage - is not a battle worth pursuing in that 'what do you get out of it?' For me Methyl B12 is doing a lot. You want to know something? I honestly felt like I did not have long to live and had been depressed. Methyl B12 has been changing that with no other additions to my diet which is not deficient in any calculatable aspect. For others I have read and seen posts about several B12 early deficiency symptoms. There are several threads on taking a lot of B12. You have presented your evidence and do not see the optimistic side for something that does not have a harmful potential aside from if you choked on too many tablets. I posted this in hopes that others that feel they are not meeting some concern they have. There certainly is a fair amount of - while anecdotal - passages about ineffectiveness of B12 supplementation that I have browsed on and may not be a double blind study. Besides if no one here considered any anecdotal information to be useful well then this forum would not even be around!

Hm well I would not try to say I am interested in "classifying" because it usually leaves too much open room. However knowing a lot and becoming educated on the differences I think is very intelligent. I am not going to say that the Google image thing is flattering to anyone other than Mesomorphs. Although if you look at it in other ways people use to have a use for the different body types. Endomorphs were good at surviving famines, times of war, etc... Ectomorphs (probably ecto-mesomoprhs) are far superior at marathons today and it probably was useful for early humans that had to hunt wild game with spears etc. Being a mesomorph might have advantages in today's society but it was not always such. Plus these days for example fashion only likes ectomorphs typically. It is all up and down and really endomorphs are the only ones at the largest problem because the typical diet may make them gain weight easily. Currently in Hollywood the theme is endo-mesomorphs like Gerald Butler so you never know! Different values, different times, different cultures, all mean different things when it comes to body types.

According to here only 1% is usually absorbed, so it would seem that doing what you can to enhance it would be smart! They used the same study as above, but have more information on what is happening. http://health101.org/art_methylcobalamin.htm

I got to tell you it would be a pretty far stretch for me to use any of that information for unethical purposes. I am just college kid in my studio apartment waiting for school to start, oh and checking out huge amounts of CDs and books from the library a block from me. One can not change being your somatype but people are often confused on it. Being an endomorph does not make you fat, not at all! People that think that are ill-informed and could benefit from some diet and exercise changes! You could still be an endomorph even though you are very fit without excess body fat. It only means you have more endodermic tissue is all. You could of very well been told the wrong information too. Jay Cutler is an endomorph but good luck telling Mr. Olympia 2nd place 6 times that he is fat. I think it is good encouragement to know that anyone of any frame and body type can see results! Everyone is unique but we share some attributes or breeding would not go well. cubby it sounds like you are a mesomorph. Your pictures certainly would make one thing so! If your hands where not as big they would probably just touch uh?

My curiosity of the different shapes and genetics of people. Perhaps there will be correlations to who wants to body build, who excels at it (besides the obvious mesomorph), or some interesting pattern may come up. Plus I think it is interesting so I assume others do as well.

From http://veganhealth.org/b12/noncyanob12 Awesome. That really has nothing but good things to say about it expect that it is hard to have it be as stable so larger amounts are needed. I do not think I need any extra Cyanide. Also the greater point why not try it if you feel you could benefit from it? It is not going to hurt you. After all science explains what it can not all.

Actually this is where I found it, http://www.dadamo.com/B2blogs/blogs/index.php/2004/02/07/cyanocobalamin-versus-methylcobalamin?blog=27 I do not need a study to tell me that I have twice as much nerve reception in my legs. I have taken the Cyanocobalamin on and off for a long time with little to no difference. The Methylcobalamin when I first took it changed receptivity first right away, and then more evenly across my muscles overnight. (But I do search PubMed for different things, one thing that did pop up unfortunately was based off of Medline research so it was not it's own study, but did mention benefits to Methylcobalamin) It is worth a try as opposed to the people popping 10mg a few times day which is not that cheap either.

By the way, I am Frame Size : Just Touching (on the lower end towards overlapping) Finger Ratio: Both ring fingers are longer with narrow gonial angle Legs : Lower is long, and I reached my final height or close to much faster than most people I grew up around. Blood Type ; I am A - and my family is A or AB on one side with a history of cardiovascular problems so it is safe to say I wish them to stop eating at least red meat. It would confuse them if I told them that being vegan would actually help them, make them lose weight, considering that they have traditionally been big meat eaters (and weight gainers).

Oh? I thought people would find this information very useful.

Hello everyone. I did a bunch of searches on here to find out what people's habits are concerning Vitamin B12. Well anyone on here I am sure knows it is important to a vegan diet since there are not realistic animal sources. We are just simply blessed with the fact that we can store a lot of it, and sometimes it is found in dirt that you end up eating... Here is what you should know. The supplementation and differences in lab results has a lot to do with the synthetic form that is used in probably 100% of fortification and 99% of supplements. Cyanocobalamin is the common and almost only used form of synthetic (animal free) vitamin B12. The prefix to the word cobalamin - vitamin B12 - happens to be cyanide. The amount of cyanide is small but no amount is healthy. Also if you are taking high doses of vitamin B12 then you are increases the cyanide. Funny enough the cyanide is not the bigger worry! Fact is that cyanocobalamin does not occur in nature anywhere and is not very bio-available to your system. It does get broken down in your system to usable forms but perhaps not nearly as much of it as you need, if much at all. It becomes methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin and leaves cyanide behind (in you). Methylcobalamin is a form that is seen naturally in the world. It appears that it is absorbed and retained in higher amounts in your tissue. In particular it is used by the brain, nervous system, and liver. If you are 100% Vegan with nothing like eggs in your diet, I highly suggest you make your next purchase be Methyl B12 for your health. I personally enjoy the benefits from it greatly. It is a noticeable difference for me. It does cost more but overall the price paid for the amount I need, and how long it lasts, I can do.

Hello everyone, I am new to the board and probably not going to be very big contributing member but... I do independently study Epigenetics. Epigenetics refers to "overall" or rather what is being expressed, genetics. We all get what we get from our parents but different things are turned on and off throughout our lifetime. I am posting here to get an idea of how different Epigenetic qualities affect body building. I will state a few of them, and then explain some of their relations to express. Hopefully everyone will enjoy the idea of comparing them and considering what they mean. First off, frame size. Wrap your middle finger and thumb of one hand around the wrist joint of the other, usually to have the fingers meet where your watch would be at. You either clearly overlap, just touch, or do not touch at all. There will be varying degrees but it is really only one of the three. For example one of my wrists is almost an overlap, but not a clear one so it is really just touching. People with a small frame (clearly overlapping) tend to be ectomorphs, or ectomesomorphs. This means they have more ectodermic tissue which is strongly associated with skin. The more ectomorphic you are the more you will have to work in order to develop muscle. Frank Zane and Bruce Lee are examples of possibly some of the most muscle toned ectomorphs (ectomesomorphs actually) that you may be familiar with. I give the as example because if you are one you should not feel like you will never build muscle, you certain can if you find what works for you. Their naturally almost non-existent body fat helps with a lot of what people want to achieve for body building. They also tend to be more andric, which means they have more of a natural gap between their legs even when their feet are together. Medium frames tend to be mesomorphs which is strongly associated with muscle. They often have wide shoulders and smaller waists. Muscle development comes with relative ease for them. They often have low to medium body fat so definition is not hard but sometimes requires a little more size to bring it out because the amount of muscle they have actually hides some that they want to show when they do not have very low natural body fat. Large frames tend to be endomorphs or endomesomorphs. Endoderic tissue is associated with larger internal organs and more "padded" skin in appearance. These individuals have the hardest time losing weight and showing definition. They are likely to have thrifty metabolisms and benefit from low carbohydrates for keeping excess fat down. They are also prone towards wide hips. In time of famine and such they usually do quiet well. They however typically will be the largest of anyone who works out since they have a large frame and often large muscles. They can really dwarf other other people in sheer size. *Please note while certain things are typical, you will also find ectomorphs on large frames, anything is possible. Finger Ratio Do you have longer ring or index fingers? Measure on the inside starting at the crease. The shape of the hand can make for misleading guistimations, measuring is best. Often people will have one hand be the opposite of the other. It is more typical for people with longer ring fingers to be more gynic (legs touching) than andric (legs not touching), also longer fingers are prone towards being endomorphic and perhaps a wider gonial angle (the angle of your jaw from ear down to turning point that leads out to chin). Lower Leg or Upper Leg This one is sort of complicated to measure. The top leg is done by sitting in a chair and measuring from where the crease from torso to leg meets (a bit towards outside of body, there is a bone there, sit up straight) to the dip just before the knee cap. The lower leg is done on the outside from the tip of the ankle bone (think just past where it sticks out the most) to just past where the knob of bone sticks out below the knee cap and towards the outside of the leg. Longer lower leg shows a high growth rate factor. Typically the longer it is the more tendency the person has to be taller. I am unsure of specific connections to muscle with this yet. Blood Type There seems to be small evidence of the RH factor being important towards much of anything, however the difference in ABO groups in some studies do show certain interesting factors. The Japanese use it like a horoscope and it is somewhat accurate there but you may not find the same results in such a strongly mixed background pool of an European originated area (Europe, US, South Africa, Iceland, etc). There is at least one connection to very big benefit towards not eating hard to digest meats, and that is of anyone with the A antigen (Type A or AB). This is a benefit not seen in the O or B group but by no means does that signify that there is nothing of interest in alternative diets, just that for people with the A antigen it is especially helpful for their health. This is that people with the A antigen have less intestinal alkaline phosphate in their intestines, or rather it is inoculated perhaps by the A antigen. Intestinal Alkaline Phosphate helps with the digestion of fats, and since the fats in meat (red in particular) are saturated, people with the A antigen do not process them and end up with them in their cardiovascular system which as we all [should] know leads towards plaque, cholesterol, and the sorts. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16412386 Anyways Thanks for entertaining me on this. Perhaps this will be very fascinating to see the kind of results vs. genetic indicators. Based on them I would certainly encourage slightly different approaches to nurture the different shapes of body and muscle, by the way, but I am sure most of you are fairly aware of that predicament. Thanks!