ATank

Thanks everyone. I also really appreciate the last post veganessentials. Your advice is excellent and better than that it is entirely practical. I just recently came across this posting by nutritionfacts.org (http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/plant-based-atkins-diet/). The studies that are discussed seem to indicate that even a "high-protein" diet is healthy if it comes from plant sources. I'm pretty pumped to read this news! A friend of mine also found this article on pubmed which is supposed to be related to the video on nutritionfacts. I haven't read it yet but I will share it as well: "Development of symptomatic cardiovascular disease after self-reported adherence to the Atkins diet." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19559147

A-freakin'-men! I never understood the aversion that so many in the vegan community have had in regard to protein. The oversimplification of "protein = death" bullshit that I've heard so many times over the years is one I'd hoped would die off, and while it seems on the decline, there's still enough people who want to peddle that tired old story that keep it alive. I believe that the simplistic thinking of "worrying about taking in more protein means you'll turn to animal products" is what got people started on this, as there have always been people in the vegan world who only see things in their half-cocked assumptive absolutes. I also believe that it got this way when people in the community were happy to lie about the supposed dangers of protein, thinking that it was fine to obfuscate the truth if it meant that people would be afraid of it and would associate higher protein with declining health. All because they never considered that, if people want more protein, there are more than enough vegan sources out there for anyone who is after them. But, for some, it was more about drawing a line in the sand to call protein the "enemy" and make it an oversimplified and false battle that wasn't worth waging in the first place. It's exactly why I'm grateful that there are places like this where facts can be shared instead of the old wives tales that used to be the "facts" people would spread around regarding protein! There is no denying that "politics" definitely played a part in the rise of vegetarianism/veganism and making protein the enemy was a wise move in this regard although it may have been inaccurate. However, there is no denying that an excess of protein, regardless of the source, will put more pressure on ones liver, kidneys, pancreas, and so on. My question is exactly what constitutes and excess and does that value depend on the source (plant or animal)? I was hoping someone here had either come across any research that discusses this or has any personal experience with this. I am not trying to equate protein with death, nor am I a hippy who cannot bench press an empty bar. I just want to continue to maximize my health while keeping that in balance with my desire to still have a bodybuilder'esque physique. I hope the two are not mutually exclusive.

My BMI has been close to or greater then 30 since I was 18 (I'm 32 now and I started working out when I was 15). So in terms of the body wanting to be efficient I get what you are saying as it makes sense that my body would want to bring the overall BMI down to a more Cardiovascularly manageable level. My main point was that it seems as though my body loses mass faster on a veggie diet than it did on an animal protein diet. Now, this may be a moot point because I will not return to eating animal proteins. I just thought it was an interesting observation and I wanted to see if anyone else has noticed the same thing. As an important side note I need to point out that this mass loss only happened when I could not workout for an extended period of time. I did lose some mass (sans workouts) when I was a carnivore but not as quickly as now. However, I have to say that it has been about 4 weeks now since I have been able to workout , and the mass lost has stopped leaving me at 205 lbs rather than my usual 220 - 230. I should be getting back to the gym in less than a week (yay!!) so we'll see how fast the mass comes back. All of the above was a side note I wanted to ask about though. My primary questions was about the safety of excess protein (even if it is from plant based sources). I'll address that below with a quote from another forum member.

I checked out the link you provided, thanks. Dr. McDougall echoes a lot of the thoughts I had, especially in regards to how animals like horses, elephants, hippos (and the one I was thinking of was the belgian blue) can attain such muscle mass, on a strictly vegan and low protein diet. Since I have been a vegetarian I have found that if I can get into the gym my muscle mass and strength increases as quickly as they did when I was a meat eater. However, the biggest difference I have noticed is that my body loses its mass much more quickly if I don't go to the gym (I haven't been able to go for the last couple of weeks and I have lost 5 lbs). Perhaps the excess protein helps preserve muscle mass better (but at what health cost?). My schedule should get back to normal again in a couple of weeks so I can start hitting the gym 4 times a week again. We'll see what happens.

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and Veganism (although to be honest I haven't had the courage to give up eggs (4/week) and I love cream in my coffee), so really I am still a vegetarian. I apologize if this question has been asked elsewhere already. I recently watched "Forks over Knives" and they presented some interesting information about protein and acidosis and various types of cancers. I know they were specifically focused on animal proteins (dairy) but the suggestion was that a daily protein intake of greater than 15% of total daily calories leads to all sorts of health problems. I haven't been able to find out if this applies to plant based protein as well. It would make sense that plant based proteins would still lead to acidosis, and therefore calcium leeching from bones, electrolyte disbalance, greater cellular damage etc. if consumed in greater quantities. Has anyone found any evidence that plant based proteins somehow prevent this effect? I have been a bodybuilder for 17 years now (non-competitive but still pretty big: 230lbs at 6'0" with 8-10% bodyfat) and really don't want to lose the muscle I have put on so I would like to consume more protein to support this mass. My health means more to me than my vanity so I can take the hit to my mass, but I really would prefer not to. Any insight or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.