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Neven

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  1. Oh, here it is:

    ISSUE #1 — Many physicians believe that high protein diets cause kidney dysfunction

     

    RESPONSE #1 — This is FALSE according to everything science now knows to be true. This presumption states that if you take a healthy person and put them on a high protein diet, the protein will somehow negatively influence the kidney, damaging it and causing renal disease. To this end, there is absolutely no data in healthy adults suggesting that a high protein intake causes the onset of renal (kidney) dysfunction. There aren’t even any correlational studies showing this effect in healthy people.

     

    Any studies that show a correlation between renal (kidney) dysfunction and protein intake are in those with some type of diagnosed, pre-existing renal (kidney) disease like diabetic nephropathy, glomerular lesions, etc. Even research into protein restriction for renal patients can be controversial. (Shils, Modern Nutr in Health & Dis, 1999).

     

    Besides, you’ll likely recognize a serious pre-existing kidney condition; the signs and symptoms will clue you in long before you happen upon it with a routine blood test (especially if there's a noted family history of diabetes mellitus and hypertension).

     

    Since an exhaustive search of the published literature will likely not yield a single study showing that the amount of protein in the diet causes, or is correlated with, the onset of renal dysfunction in otherwise healthy individuals, the fact that this notion prevails is puzzling to say the least!

    But even if a doctor were to find an obscure reference that might suggest a relationship between a high-protein diet and kidney disease, there are numerous studies showing otherwise. Here are a few of them:

     

    a) Ann Intern Med 2003 Mar 18;138(6):460-7

    The impact of protein intake on renal function decline in women with normal renal function or mild renal insufficiency.

    Knight EL, Stampfer MJ, Hankinson SE, Spiegelman D, Curhan GC.

     

    b) Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Mar;10(1):28-38

    Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes?

    Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O.

     

    c) Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1999 Nov;23(11):1170-7

    Changes in renal function during weight loss induced by high vs low-protein low-fat diets in overweight subjects.

    Skov AR, Toubro S, Bulow J, Krabbe K, Parving HH, Astrup A.

     

    d) Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40

    Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.

    Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.

     

    e) Am J Kidney Dis 2003 Mar;41(3):580-7

    Association of dietary protein intake and microalbuminuria in healthy adults: Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. "Dietary protein intake was not associated with microalbuminuria in normotensive or nondiabetic persons."

     

    If you’re interested, these studies can be accessed at www.pubmed.com.

    http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/dear.htm

     

    http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/protein_debate.htm

  2. This classic research indicates that during intensive training, strength and endurance athletes may need somewhere between 1.4 - 2.0 g of protein per kg of body mass to maintain nitrogen balance.

     

    As Rennie and colleagues have pointed out, there are several problems when trying to apply the Lemon and Tarnoposky data to habitual exercisers. First, the studies by Lemon and Tarnopolsky were done on athletes undergoing new training programs. While they were recreationally active before the study began, the training stimulus (strength training in some studies, endurance training in others) was novel, most likely causing a short-term increase in protein need, an increase that would not persist in the long-term (Rennie et al 1999, 2000). In other words, Rennie argues that while a new exercise program (whether strength or endurance exercise) may increase protein need acutely, chronic exercise probably doesn't increase protein need at all.

     

    here is another article, same author John Berardi

    http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1173228

     

    P.s.

    I was looking for kidney thing article but couldn't find it, if you ever want to find out just take a look through some medical articles and it will show you that in healthy person there is no problem with more protein. Kidneys will be all right, they will only work a little bit more than with less protein.

  3. Sorry for being dumb, but where is the high level of calcium here?

     

    I know almonds is a good source for calcium, a handful contains just a bit less than cowmilk, but since we know cows milk removes calcim from the body because it's a powerful acidifier, almonds are better !

     

    Legumes also are acidifiers

  4. Here's a reply from someone that is a vegan bodybuilder:

    I think that 150 grams per day sounds good for you. Try it for a bit and check your progress and how you feel, and adjust accordingly.

    For building muscle you really do need more protein than an ordinary person, or an endurance athlete. I don't care if people think that you "can't use" that much protein, that is nonsense. Because one of the main reasons why people ingest above average protein is to promote a positive nitrogen balance. That means even if your shitting out a little protein, by the body having digested it, nitrogen levels increase in the blood and promote an anabolic response (ie the generation of muscle tissue).

     

    Besides all that science stuff, you might observe that those of us who have made serious gains in muscle have an above average protein intake.

     

    To get extra protein on a calorie reduced diet your best bet is to use protein powder. Since I assume you are eating soy products you might want to consider pea protein powder.

     

    As I totally agree with this opinion I would also recommend you to read this article.

     

    Need Vs. Optimization

    Let's take a moment to examine the most common protein question discussed above — How much protein does an athlete need?

    When someone asks this question they're usually trying to figure out how much protein the athlete in question should eat to optimize body composition and performance. But the question, "How much protein does an athlete need?" is a very different one from "How much protein should an athlete consume to improve body composition and athletic performance?" So it's important to distinguish between what someone needs and what's optimal.

    In the research world, the word need is in no way associated with optimization. Instead it's defined as the minimum amount necessary in order to prevent deficiency. Therefore, in asking how much protein an athlete needs, you're asking the question "What's the minimum amount of protein an athlete can get away with to prevent wasting and eventual death?"

    Since most athletes have access to and usually consume enough protein to stave off death, the common protein question about how much protein an athlete needs is a bad one. This question doesn't address the issue of real importance, the one that addresses what an athlete should consume to improve performance and body composition?

     

    Do Athletes Need More Protein?

    While it's obvious that the protein need question is an academic one, I want to address it here because the answer may shock you.

    Before we talk about specific numbers, I need to give you a little background on how to measure protein needs. Measuring protein needs in different populations is usually accomplished by the nitrogen balance technique. This technique involves measuring the amount of nitrogen ingested (in protein sources), as well as measuring or estimating the amount of nitrogen excreted in the urine, sweat, and feces.

    If the amount of nitrogen going into the body is greater than the amount of nitrogen leaving the body, it's said that the person is in positive nitrogen status. It's then assumed that the surplus protein retained in the body has been used to build up body tissues.

    If the amount of nitrogen coming in is equivalent to the nitrogen going out, it's said that the person is in nitrogen balance. It's then assumed that the person is eating just enough protein to prevent deficiency but not enough to build additional tissue.

    If the amount of nitrogen going into the body is less than the amount of nitrogen leaving the body, it's said that the person is in negative nitrogen status. It's then assumed that the person is protein deficient and in time they will begin to break down muscle tissue and, eventually, organ mass to provide for their basic amino-acid needs.

    It's therefore important to recognize that most protein-need studies look for the protein intakes at which people are in nitrogen balance, or just enough to prevent them from being deficient.

    From these nitrogen-balance experiments, it's been recommended that untrained individuals consume 0.8g of protein per kg of body mass to meet their need. Again, this is the amount of protein needed to keep them in balance while staving off the dreaded negative protein status (which can lead to protein malnutrition, muscle and organ wasting, and eventual death).

    With respect to athletic needs, the work of Lemon, Tarnopolsky and colleagues has given some indication that athletes do require more protein (Lemon et al 1981, Tarnopolsky et al 1988, Tarmonpolsky et al 1992, Lemon et al 1997). This classic research indicates that during intensive training, strength and endurance athletes may need somewhere between 1.4 - 2.0 g of protein per kg of body mass to maintain nitrogen balance.

    But what about all the athletes and weightlifters out there that consume fewer protein grams than the recommended 1.4 - 2.0 g of protein per kg of body mass? If they really needed those 1.4 - 2.0g/kg, wouldn't they be wasting away and dying? Since they're not, they must not need all that protein. What's the deal?

    As Rennie and colleagues have pointed out, there are several problems when trying to apply the Lemon and Tarnoposky data to habitual exercisers. First, the studies by Lemon and Tarnopolsky were done on athletes undergoing new training programs. While they were recreationally active before the study began, the training stimulus (strength training in some studies, endurance training in others) was novel, most likely causing a short-term increase in protein need, an increase that would not persist in the long-term (Rennie et al 1999, 2000). In other words, Rennie argues that while a new exercise program (whether strength or endurance exercise) may increase protein need acutely, chronic exercise probably doesn't increase protein need at all.

    Now before you start hatin' on Rennie, it's important to understand that this guy is a protein research legend. Type his name into Medline and you'll get a couple hundred protein-related research publications. Beyond his excellent reputation, his ideas do have both theoretical and research support. Specifically, the research of Butterfield and Calloway suggests that athletes may actually need less protein due to an increase in protein efficiency that may accompany chronic training (Butterfield and Calloway 1984). What this means is that athletes may actually get more efficient in their protein use (i.e. increased anabolic efficiency) and therefore may need less protein than the 0.8g/kg required for sedentary individuals!

    Is this Rennie guy crazy? Probably not! Then why do his comments fly in the face of what athletes and weightlifters know; namely that a higher-protein diet helps pack on muscle mass and helps promote a favorable body composition? Well, actually, they don't! If you think so, you haven't taken a lesson from our earlier discussion. Namely, you're still confusing need with optimization.

    An athlete may need less protein to stay alive but he/she should consume more protein to optimize performance and body composition. Therefore, when I'm asked how much protein an athlete needs, my best response is that it doesn't matter! Asking "How much protein does an athlete need?" is much like asking the question "How much does a student need to study for an exam?" Since a student only needs to pass their exam to remain a student, the proper answer would be "however much it takes to score a 60%." However, very few students want to earn only a 60%. Therefore the best question would be "How much does a student need to study to get an A on their exam?"

     

    Optimization of Protein Intake

    In the above section, I've indicated that athletes may actually need fewer protein grams per day than the typical sedentary dose of 0.8g/kg. Actually, the Butterfield study suggests an exact number: 0.65g/kg.

    In calculating the exact amount of protein they might recommend to maintain nitrogen balance, a 200lb athlete who trains consistently would find that they only need a measly 59g of protein to prevent nitrogen losses and protein malnutrition.

    So, for those of you who staunchly believe that you're only required to eat enough protein to meet your needs,go right ahead and reduce your protein intake from 2.0g/kg to 0.65g/kg. In the meantime, I'll be encouraging everyone else to actually increase his or her protein intake beyond the current 2.0g/kg recommendation.

    If this recommendation seems excessive, it's because you have a narrow view of how protein fits into one's dietary strategy. You're looking at protein in the same narrow way that people used to look at vitamin C; essential at a specific dose but conferring no additional benefits with a higher intake.

    With vitamin C, we all know it's important to consume enough of it (at least 10mg/day) to prevent scurvy. However, it's also commonly known there are a host of health benefits associated with much higher doses (200mg/day or more) including a reduced risk of cancer, increased HDL cholesterol, reduced risk of coronary artery disease, and a reduced duration of cold episodes and severity of symptoms.

    Like vitamin C, instead of thinking of protein as a macronutrient that provides no benefit beyond preventing protein deficiency, we need to recognize the benefits of eating protein (at any dose).

    Increased Thermic Effect of Feeding — While all macronutrients require metabolic processing for digestion, absorption, and storage or oxidation, the thermic effect of protein is roughly double that of carbohydrates and fat. Therefore, eating protein is actually thermogenic and can lead to a higher metabolic rate. This means greater fat loss when dieting and less fat gain during overfeeding.

    Increased Glucagon — Protein consumption increases plasma concentrations of the hormone glucagon. Glucagon is responsible for antagonizing the effects of insulin in adipose tissue, leading to greater fat mobilization. In addition, glucagon also decreases the amounts and activities of the enzymes responsible for making and storing fat in adipose and liver cells. Again, this leads to greater fat loss during dieting and less fat gain during overfeeding.

    Increased IGF-1 — Protein and amino-acid supplementation has been shown to increase the IGF-1 response to both exercise and feeding. Since IGF-1 is an anabolic hormone that's related to muscle growth, another advantage associated with consuming more protein is more muscle growth when overfeeding and/or muscle sparing when dieting.

    Reduction in Cardiovascular Risk — Several studies have shown that increasing the percentage of protein in the diet (from 11% to 23%) while decreasing the percentage of carbohydrate (from 63% to 48%) lowers LDL cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations with concomitant increases in HDL cholesterol concentrations.

    Improved Weight-Loss Profile — Brand spankin' new research by Layman and colleagues has demonstrated that reducing the carbohydrate ratio from 3.5 - 1 to 1.4 - 1 increases body fat loss, spares muscle mass, reduces triglyceride concentrations, improves satiety, and improves blood glucose management (Layman et al 2003 — If you're at all interested in protein intake, you've gotta go read the January and February issues of the Journal of Nutrition. Layman has three interesting articles in the two journals).

    Increased Protein Turnover — As I've discussed before in my article Precision Nutrition, all tissues of the body, including muscle, go through a regular program of turnover. Since the balance between protein breakdown and protein synthesis governs muscle protein turnover, you need to increase your protein turnover rates in order to best improve your muscle quality. A high protein diet does just this. By increasing both protein synthesis and protein breakdown, a high protein diet helps you get rid of the old muscle more quickly and build up new, more functional muscle to take its place.

    Increased Nitrogen Status — Earlier I indicated that a positive nitrogen status means that more protein is entering the body than is leaving the body. High protein diets cause a strong positive protein status and when this increased protein availability is coupled with an exercise program that increases the body's anabolic efficiency, the growth process may be accelerated.

    Increased Provision of Auxiliary Nutrients — Although the benefits mentioned above have related specifically to protein and amino acids, it's important to recognize that we don't just eat protein and amino acids — we eat food. Therefore, high protein diets often provide auxiliary nutrients that could enhance performance and/or muscle growth. These nutrients include creatine, branched chain amino acids, conjugated linoleic acids, and/or additional nutrients that are important but remain to be discovered. This illustrates the need to get most of your protein from food, rather than supplements alone.

    Looking over this list of benefits, isn't it clear that getting lots of protein would be advantageous to anyone's training goals? Since a high protein diet can lead to a better health profile, an increased metabolism, improved body composition, and an improved training response, why would anyone ever try to limit their protein intake to the bare minimum necessary to stave off malnutrition?

    It seems to me that whether someone's on a hypoenergetic diet or a hyperenergetic diet, the one macronutrient they would want to be sure to overeat would be protein. Instead, their protein prejudice often leads most trainees to look for what they consider the bare minimum of protein, and then overeat carbohydrates and fats instead. That's a big performance and body composition mistake.

    I have yet to meet a healthy man or woman that couldn't use more protein in his or her diet. It's high time we drop our prejudiced attitude toward protein and start giving it the respect it deserves.

    Now get outta my lab — I've got work to do and you've gotta go eat some protein.

  5. Nutrition:

    The main focus is that i reduced my carbohydrate intake.

    On training days i eat carbs in the morning and before and after the workout, mainly slow carbs like oatflakes, only after the workout fast carbs with my protein shake.

    On Off days i only eat carbs in the morning.

    The other meals mainly consist of protein and good fat.

    I often eat selfmade lowcarb hig protein muffins when i´m not at home.

    Calorie counting isnt anything for me, i eat until i´m full , reguraly all 2-3 hours.

     

    Something like typical bb diet for cutting.

    What exactly do you eat during the on and off days?

  6. My flax, and pumpkin seeds pretty much go exclusively into my smoothies. Larger nuts tend to go into my salads unless I'm making a deserty chocolaty smoothie.

     

    As for the tofu in salad thing I love it...same goes for nuts...I don't think I'd put flax in though since you'd have to mill it down(whole flax seeds are worthless for anything other than getting stuck in your teeth).

     

    ***You can always do stir fry with tofu and nuts instead if you can't do the salad thing.

     

    So you mix flax seeds or nuts with what, banana, apple, cherry,...?

    Do you mix flax seeds or nuts with oats, or some other carb food?

  7. Where do you put your nuts, flaxseeds, peanuts, in what meals, with what food do you mix them?

    I've been making diet plan and don't know where to put them because of the protein+carbs, and proteins+fatt system.

    It is somehow weird to put only tofu and nuts with salad, or seitan with flaxseed and salad.

     

    How do you do this?

  8. Why are people than saying that some are missing one or two essential amino-acids?

     

    Found out why is that.

    The Amino Acid Score calculated by ND is a basic measure of protein quality, but it has not been adjusted for the digestibility of the protein. Protein digestibility depends on the type of protein (animal proteins are more digestible than plant proteins), as well as the method in which the food was prepared. If digestibility is accounted for, the Amino Acid Score will be somewhat lower than stated.

     

    If the Amino Acid Score is less that 100, a link is provided to "complementary" sources of protein. These are foods that are higher in the limiting amino acid(s), and/or lower in the amino acids most prevalent in the food. By combining complementary proteins, you may be able to increase the overall quality of the protein you consume.

  9. 20.63 total grams of amino acid per 30 gram serving.

     

    All of my other figures were for 30 gram servings so I calculated the difference between the 28g serving data from the GetKemistry website and converted it to a 30g serving.

     

    Amino Acid Ratio of Leucine to Isoleucine to Valine

    ProCore Buckwheat-Soy--- 2 : 1.49 : 1.22

    True Protein Isolate Whey--2 : 1.41 : 1.20

    True Protein Gemma Iso----2 : 1.09 : 1.29

     

    Seems to be the closest ratio to that of Whey Isolate that I have analyzed yet. But, the furthest from the ideal 2:1:1. I have no idea whether or not 2:1:1 ratio is beneficial with regards to a protein supplement, only going off of what is claimed by Amino Acid supplements.

     

    None-the-less, fun stuff analyzing new products. Veggieprincess, let us know what you think after about a month of using the ProCore

     

    Cool man

    Now I have some questions.

    Why are you watching for Leucine-Isoleucine-Valine (BCAA)?:?

    Shouldn't you watch for Lysine and Methionine because they are essential amino-acids that aren't many in plant food?

     

    I'm going to buy some of these products so I want to know what to look for and why.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/100soy.html

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/soy.html

    http://www.prosport.net/katalog/product.php?cat_id=2&start=42&product_id=1030035517

  10. I agree with all three of you, Robert, Veganpotter and Paulcats02.

    But I take more positive step towards Robert and Paulcats02.

    Animals are killed every day and if someone choose more plant-based less animal-based diet I see this as a positive step towards.

    They are still killed but now they are killed less.

  11. It put this kind of thread already on one forum.

    What are your opinions?

     

     

    It says it isn't necessary but there's nothing bad in doing so.

     

    So what would be good complementary food to combine?

     

    beans + corn

    lentils + barley

    rice + peas

    rice + beans

     

     

    With what would you mix walnuts, sesame seeds, peanuts?

    I was thinking adding am just a little bit in some meals so I was thinking what meals would that be?

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