seitan_man

So one protein shake after a workout is enough you reckon?

Alexander, if I looked like you I wouldn't even think twice about changing my diet, as it has cleary been optimal in helping you create that amazing physique. I am a vegan for ethical reasons, but find that so much contradictory information is given about the vegan diet that it is hard to know what to eat to build muscle etc. especially for someone new to the lifestyle. Soy and gluten are common 'lean' vegan protein sources so if you were cutting them out completely you may run into the problem of having to 'get protein through carbs', a common criticism of the vegan diet in terms of it being beneficial for bodybuilding.

Excellent transformation ducati, care to post an exercise and diet plan?

I suppose 'not having a gut' would be my ideal physique, but I fear I will never achieve it.

I just hate gyms full stop and refuse to go into them. Full of arrogant, body fascist primadonnas and generally people with low IQs. Not to mention extremely unsympathetic towards vegans. Sorry!

I drink once a week but no more. The key to alcohol is moderation.

Maybe the folks at 'Organic Athlete' could advise you on an optimal raw diet?

It seemed to me that the mother simply didn't research nutrition well enough or bother to make interesting and substantial meals for her kids.

Just came across this: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/healthy-living/how-our-vegan-diet-made-us-ill-848322.html They state at the end: High-biological-value protein is found in meat, fish, eggs and dairy products. Low-biological-value protein is found in nuts, pulses and wholegrains. Separately, the latter don't contain all the essential amino acids, but do when combined correctly. Knowledge of which foods to mix together is therefore crucial.

Would the seeds in the dough be ground or whole?

Some great posts on this thread everyone, very encouraging! I think my problem maybe is down to my negative mindset and hatred of my body in general, I probably even have BDD to some extent and will have to work hard to appreciate my body in any form. I am prepared to put in the effort though and don't want to give up. Dare I ask what other people's typical meals plans look like? I'm very interested.

Is that guy 'natural'?

Thanks for all the advice peeps, I really appreciate it! In answer to your questions xjohanx, I have no idea about the first one, calories are something that confuse me to be honest and I normally think in terms of protein, carbs and fats. There are few vegan foods I don't like, with the exception of mustard and uncooked walnuts, the rest is all good. First are foremost I would like a nice, tight stomach, not the pot belly I have now. I would also like a decent chest and arms.

Well it looks like I know even less that I thought about diet and training and feel like I am back to square one. Maybe I should just sign up for veggieprincess' program and forget the last few years of my life? If I was going to buy weights, I would be limited by space so would only be really able to buy dumbells. As I have very little strength though I do think that at the start I could use jugs filled with sand as they can seem heavy to me. Dare I ask what a decent meal plan would look like compared to my carb heavy, sugar heavy, low protein one?

Well I had no idea my diet was so bad, although I wouldn't know where to start with regard to creating an optimal one if the one I have been eating is so off the mark. Having said that if I ask people to suggest an alternative diet plan I likely won't get much help, only vague suggestions. Maybe there are 'so many people like me' on training forums because there is so little in the way of help out there for vegans wanting to get in shape.......unless they part with large amounts of cash.

I don't really like gyms to be honest and was actually thinking of creating my own 'weights' by filling plastic water jugs with sand etc. Surely chin ups and tricep dips are good exercises for bulding up biceps and triceps though? I know enough about nutrition to stay healthy, but this is what my typical meal plan for a day would be: Breakfast: Museli or oatmeal with banana, soy milk, pumpkin seeds. Maybe beans on toast. Cereal bar. Mid morning: Couscous or mixed bean salad, maybe some fruit. Lunch: Large salad with either tofu or fake meat, sometimes falafel. Soy yoghurt. Sometimes wholemeal bread based sandwiches. Dinner: Could be seitan and noodles, veggie burgers and mixed veg, lentil casserole. Sometimes rice and beans. Late night snack: Fruit or a few pieces of soy meat, with hummus. During the day I drink nettle tea, sometimes green tea or normal tea with soy milk. I do about 30 mins cardio a day, sometimes more depending on how tired I am after work.

I actually started off from day one by working with a personal trainer. I literally had never set foot in a gym before and he showed me about proper lifting, form and everything else. I found when I started to do bodyweight exercises my strength increased dramtically, although due to having a small frame, I always knew that would put me at a disadvantage compared with some 6'3" guy in terms of strength. I stopped working with the trainer as he was very dismissive of the vegan diet and told me that I would struggle to build a decent body without animal protein. Why are bodyweight exercises so inferior to weights btw? Don't gymnasts develop great physiques without lifting weights? A far as a workout routine goes, there are zillions of books out there dedicated to that subject, it is just trying to adapt bodybuilding meal plans for a vegan diet is so complicated and there is no way to get a straight answer about diet, usually all I get is codescending remarks and aggression.

Thanks Marcina, although that is pretty much what I have done. I couldn't sleep for 10 hours though, I would feel terrible the next day.

Hmm, was that an insult directed at me? If it was a serious question, then I have flicked through it but found it to be badly written and full of nutritional errors.

Thank you for your concern everyone, but I feel I truly have done everything I can, worked my ass off, probably even done *too much* exercise at some points. I have read the Body For Life Book, The Abs Diet, all manner of things from sites such as this but have got pretty much nowhere. I couldn't say exactly how many grams of protein I eat a day, but I consume plenty of seeds, tofu, seitan, beans, rice and fake meats and I am sure I get more than enough protein. I simply don't feel that gaining a decent body is possible for me , I think it must be something to do with my genetic make up that restricts me, it seems impossible for me to lose the last bit of body fat and to build muscle. veggieprincess, yes I truly believe over the last few years I have truly done everything I could do, I could pay 200 dollars to access your routine and diet plan, but I doubt you could give me anything new. I wonder whether you are actually just trying to sell your routine to me or really wanting to offer me helpful advice? If one day someone comes out with a definitive guide to creating a great body through a vegan diet then I will buy it, but so far nobody has. I think a lot of people on forums such as this do a *great disservice* to veganism by keeping these exercise and dietary secrets to themselves. Clearly there are methods that work, but they are nigh on impossible for people like me to access and we are left to burrow through endless rhetoric to try and find the truth. Why the hell aren't the 'vegan bodybuilders' helping others to develop killer physiques and thus promoting veganism rather than just keeping it all to themselves? Sorry, but I am becoming very disillusioned and I don't think I should blanme myself, as I have exercised my ass off.

Maybe we should all eat a raw vegan diet?

I have done just about everything I can think of to lose weight; jogging, running, eating a restricted calorie diet, as many press ups, chin ups, dips and ab exercises that I physically can do. Diet wise, I have tried everything I can think of, but get so confused at what to eat with the amount of conflicting information out there. I just can't seem to get anywhere. Maybe my body just wasn't meant to be in shape or I have a certain genetic make up that prohibits muscle growth or weight loss? So frustrating!

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I just can't believe I have been training for so long and got nowhere. The diet side of things is probably where I am going wrong, but there is so much conflicting information out there it makes my head spin. If only there was some book written by vegans for vegans with regard to a bodybuilding diet it would be a dream come true. Maybe one day someone will write it? Until then I fear I will just get more and more frustrated.

I wasn't going to post this but I am really at the end of my tether. I entered a gym for the first time in my life toward the end of 2006 and started working with a personal trainer, my intention being to lose weight and gain muscle. The PT told me I 'would struggle' to gain muscle on a vegan diet and after the last session I had with him, I mentioned that I was pleased with the progress I had made and he replied 'Just think of the gains you would see if you ate meat'. Feeling disillusioned I started doing bodyweight only exercises after reading that weights weren't needed to build muscle. I have had some ups and downs over the years, but here we are in July 2009 and my physique resembles the middle picture in jj4479's progress pics here: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=18392 I had wished that I would have at least 'fitness model' body by now, but I have nothing of the sort. I feel like it is going to be impossible to lose my gut and get a six pack and have already been researching doctors to perform liposuction. I really don't know what else I can do, I have always felt completely confused and bewildered when it comes to working out meal plans as there seems to be so much conflicting information out there. I feel like giving up, I really do. Can anyone relate or give me advice? I really do feel like crap at the minute.

I once had a product in the US called 'Tofu Salad' that tasted very much like cottage cheese. I remember it had umeboshi vinegar in it.