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karlhubris

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  1. Or, some would argue (myself included), that not until people stop being cruel to animals will they stop being cruel to each other. As one person put it, cruelty to animals is a fundamental human debacle, a debacle so fundamental that all others stem from it. Wow, this is really a chicken or the egg debate...I don't want to go there, I disagree ,but not entirely...how about this...I think this is a good compromise...people should be kind to ALL animals...and people are animals too in a sense: cruelty is a fundamental human debacle, a debacle so fundamental that all others stem from it.
  2. Which makes what they are doing all the more worse, as they know what it is like to be a victim. To inflict similiar treatment they have been through on to others..... Two wrongs do not make a right. I agree...that all stemmed from a horrible misunderstanding about a comment I made being grateful for being able to make the choice to be vegan...I was commenting on poorer nations whose people don't consider veganism because they are too busy just trying to get ANY food and other necesities of life...someone interpreted that as me condoning animal abuse...I thought they were saying that ALL people ould be vegan and if they weren't they had no sympathy for them...then it just got kinda crazy...I was writing on the assumption that they equated all non vegans as animal abusers, they thought I was excusing animal abuse...I thought it was "uncompassionate" to say you had no sympathy for people who weren't vegan...the whole thing is kinda funny in hind sight... 2 wrongs don't make a right...and those people should be able to empathize more than anyone else...
  3. once again...here's your quote...I'm talking about veganism, but you're on a tyraid about animal cruelty...I said we made a choice to lead a vegan lifestyle...then you went off on how poor people mostly eat vegetarian...but that was never my point...I'm talking about veganism...you're talking about a choice to be cruel...
  4. it is almost funny...and in hind sight I can see why it got so heated...we were talking about two different things! So do you agree with my point? We are pretty lucky? VEGANISM is somewhat of a luxury?
  5. Gaawd does that argument get old. All I am going to do here is to state what should be beyond question: like LL said, nobody, **nobody** needs to be intentionally cruel. In that regard, you are wrong - compassion is not a luxury that only the privileged have; compassion is a moral imperative that the human race cannot afford to live without. To dismiss it as a "luxury" is to dismiss humanity's only hope for survival. . I see this is where the confusion started...I'm talking about veganism, not animal cruelty...but at the risk of re-igniting the debate...cruelty is a learned behaviour...when people stop being cruel to one another, cruelty to animals will halt soon after...not saying its right, just saying the cycle needs to be stopped...agreed?
  6. Perhaps you should read my post before arguing with me...my post was specifically about veganism. I had to go back and reread it myself... somewhere along the line it was changed to animal abuse...that wasn't what I said...suddenly I'm accused of condoning kitty sacrifices and the skinning alive of spotted owls....VEGANISM...read it...nothing really that controversial about my post...
  7. Actually this was about pictures of a cute dog...it turned to attitudes towards animals in Mexico...after contemplating the poverty in Mexico I was grateful for my life in a wealthy part of the world...that is where my thoughts came from...like I said, I never thought it would be so controversial...next thing I know I'm advocating ritual kitty burnings and southeast asian puppy massacres...
  8. [quote="compassionategirl The backpedaling was for veganpotter...sorry...I should have clarified...
  9. here it is again....wow...does that say vegan...hmmmmmmm...yep...
  10. again...leather shoes...they don't really care that they came from a cow...that's my point...they are happy to have shoes, they don't really care where they came from...once more...veganism-the pursuit of living life free of using animal products- is a luxury some do not have, they just don't care because they have other concerns... (and I knew that China/India made up 1/2 the population- I was merely pointing out India's milk consumption (1/4 the world's pop.)
  11. That is exactly what you said...and I never said people had "no choice but to be uncompassionate"...but I can see the jumbled double triple negative and I can see how that is kind of confusing in hind sight...but to make it clear...people always have the choice...BUT for many veganism is not high on their priority list. Maybe YOU weren't talking about veganism, but I was...go back and read it...and if you think VEGANISM is not a matter of priorities I suggest you go back to Armenia or Turkey and ask the people in the slums...I doubt veganism is at the top of their priority list. Again, maybe I should have put it in really simple terms...when people are free from oppression then animals will be that much freer from oppression. Can you at least agree with that... You do understand that I am a vegan, I'm not knocking it or condoning abuse...but if you don't think that leisure allows for the contemplation of philosophical inquiry I don't know what to say other than you need to get out more...
  12. you seem to be backpedaling and making veganism a diet issue and not a lifestyle...leather, eggs, dairy, fish, honey (some would argue insects which are a staple in some countries), etc ...again, the choice to be vegan is a choice made by the allowance of free time for contemplation on "the greater meaning of life/actions" rather than day to day survival. I agree 100% that poor folks more than likely eat mostly plant based diets out of necessity...but they also wear leather shoes with no thought of where they came from...and despite your claim -1/4 the world's population see nothing wrong with milk (India) Is it really that hard to acknowledge that we in North America have it pretty good compared to most of the world? And that that relative priviledge allows us to contemplate philosophical ideals?
  13. And once more...cute dog...looks like he/she will be a good friend! Maybe we should discuss less divisive issues...like the role of religion in sexism/racism/specieism...
  14. you're done cuz you don't have a leg to stand on... I never said people had no choice but to Not be compassionate...I said we are lucky to have that choice when most do not...this particular lifestyle is a CHOICE that we made because we were able to put it at the top of our priority list, since basic sustenace was already met... Again, I'm not too concerned about waking up to tend the crops to feed my family tomorrow morning..so hmmmmm, maybe I'll discuss veganism/compassion on the internet...see how that works...quite simple really... you're making an arguement out of someone merely expressing gratitude!!!! As well as understanding that the ability for us to contemplate the ideology of animal rights is provided by the leisure that our wealth facilitates... FYI: Europe/U.S./Canada (arguably the richest regions...excluding mid east since that wealth is in a very few hands) make up less than 13% of the world's population...I'd call that a minority...(those are the projected figures for 2010...the current figures are even less) Average income is about $6,900 for the whole world...I'd say we're pretty fortunate on the world scale, wouldn't you?
  15. Like I said...some countries/people view animal welfare a bit lower on their priority list...I didn't say anything about excusing abuse...I merely recognized that people who have to resort to wearing cardboard shoes may think less of abusing animals than someone who has the leisure time to contemplate philisophical ideals...sorry...animal rights is a philosophical ideal...much as human rights was /is in parts of the world...but perhaps you're right...this site has nothing to do with luxury, priviledge or leisure...after all...consuming 8,000 calories per day, protein bars, hours in the gym each day, and travels across the country/world to meet up with other vegans have nothing to do with leisure...they're necesities... If I recall, I merely stated we should feel grateful for the luxury we have to contemplate and act upon ideas of compassion...I guess I shouldn't be grateful...
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