karlhubris

busted....I should know better not to say I know something when I just have hint (and then put it in all caps) Bush lived in Texas from the time he was 2 until presumably the beginning of prep school in Andover Mass. I believe the prep school covered his high school education. I guess that doesn't prove he went to public school, there are plenty of private schools in Houston. But I am surprised he spent even that long in Texas. I mean I lived in Germany for 11 years but that doesn't make me German. (Although technically I am because I was born there and had dual citizenship)

I checked out the bio on the whitehouse page...I'd be skeptical of the info on there...it states her served in the Air National guard, alot of people (including his commanding officer) would say that is false!

I wonder how long you have live somewhere to be considered "growing up" there. Like I said, when he ran for Senate he lost big time and was called a "scalawag"

hmmmmm, curious. I wonder how long he spent in Midland. Like I said, I knew he was born in Conn., and he went to high school at Andover Prep, then Harvard & Yale...it surprises me that the grandson of Prescot Bush would attend public school. Like I said, they are from old school New England elite stock...Bush was raised Anglican but converted to Methodist due to Laura's influence, Anglicans are considered the Am. version of the Church of England, after the revolution it was unhealthy to be associated with anything British for a while ...do you know how long he was in Texas?

Here is a touchy subject, especially for this site, and I think I made someone mad when I brought it up (innocently I assure you) a year or so ago when I first visited this site...

If we are vegan for solely ethical reasons, is it trully ethical to load up on 7000-8000 calories a day so we can bulk up? When some have barely enough to survive? The money I save on vegan protein bars and excess calories could probably feed several starving children. ( I know this because I help feed a child in Africa with money I use to spend on cheap beer!) I think there are absolutely valid arguements that say it is accetable to bulk up, you provide an example contrary to the stereo typical 90 pound vegan. But then you could say a vegan who wears leather provides an alternative to the "holier than thou" stereo type of vegans. Personally, I think we all try our best, some go further than others, but noone can claim having reached the ideal. Its good to inspire one another, but not to judge...but then maybe I just believe this to justify my Reeses peanut butter cups. And before anyone gets irrate...I am trying to bulk up, I'm only posing the ethical query.

I have heard the argument from some "vegans" who wore leather that they got it from thrift stores or had it before they went vegan. They also said that since leather lasted so long it was healthier for the environment because they didn't have to purchase new clothes/shoes as often. Now before you condemn me, I'm just telling you what they said...it's an interesting concept but I don't buy it. I will confess, a friend of mine brought me a Soviet Navy belt from Russia, it has a leather strap, and I do wear it occasionally. I like how the big buckle with the hammer and sickle agitates Texans!

the more you know...I did not know that was where the term vegan came from...I give the short answer that I am vegan, the long answer is that I have moments of selfish weakness. But then, for me veganism is for selfish reasons...I hate the way killing animals makes ME feel...it really is all about me,me,me! I feel bad when I see something suffering, in order to nip those feelings of guilt in the bud I just try to stay away from death. In the end, its all selfishness.

Gw was born in Conneticut and went to Annover prep school, as far as I know he NEVER went to public school...he moved to Midland after college.and after a (uh hmmm) brief stint in the military...

I could be wrong as far as GW not being in Texas until then...George the 1st has always been considered old school New England conservative.

As for Schlitterbahn, where is that? I lived in Wiesbaden for 8 years and Bremerhaven for three...now Germany, there's a place where it would be hard to vegan!!! Do they make soy Wienerschnittzel?

The justification I heard was that the existance of breeds like pitbulls only encourage blood sports...it wouldn't surprise me if it was a smear campaign, but I'd still like to get down to the bottom of it. There was a time when PeTa swore they would never euthanize an animal...they denied the rabbit dearhs for a while before they finally fessed up, like I said, that wasbackin '92, I know alot of people cancelled their memberships over that...I canceled mine when they sent some idiot playboy bunny to be interviewed by Bill O'Reilly, she made the whole movement look like idiots...at one point O'Reilly held up a piece of paer that he claimed was a study that proved that if everyone was vegetarian we couldn't grow enough food!!!! By the end the PeTa spokesperson was supporting animal research and accepted an offer by O'Reilly to go out for steak!!!! PeTA sent that airhead!!!!!! Does anyone remember that?!

I would argue veganism is a diet, so it only applies to food...but that gets tricky...in momnets of wealness I eat Reeses PB cups. Some times I eat out and I suspect the food is not entirely vegan. I sometimes prefer honey over sugar because I feel more sympathy towards migrant workers in the sugar industry...but I might be putting them outta work, but should I even be eating sweets anyway? It gets so complex...more later, gotta go...

Concerning G W Bush...he's NOT from Texas, nor is his family. He's 100% New Englander. Years ago when he ran for a Texas Senate seat he lost, in large part because he was called a "scalawag"...an opportunist yankee who comes to the South to take advantage of the poor defeated Confederates! He only came to Texas for business. Amazing how well he's been accepted once he learned to play the part of a good 'ol boy!

As for Texas Panhandle culture, you're absolutely wrong...it has no culture! At least nothing that should be considered culture

I'll put pics of the rest of the clan up later...we are: me , my wife Lori, daughter Zoe, dogs-Barbell, Buckwheat (a ginormous lab/wolfhound (?) mix rescued from the pound), Sigo (a cow-dog(?) pit mix that followed us home from school one day-pop quiz-what does Sigo mean in Spanish), & Sake (like the drink) and Sabot (2 kitties resulting from a failure to get mama spade before she got knocked up) Mama was Basmati, but she died a few years ago. I'll get pics up soon...

Yeah, I know about Colorado, more specifically Denver, but what is PeTA's stance...again, I have heard they are for euthanasia of ALL pitbulls...it could be a smear campaign, that's what I'm trying to figure out...I read it on a pitbull rescue site...

I'm curious about the reference that PeTA is only 25 and more famous than AR groups that are 100+ years old. What groups are you talking about?! If you are talking about the Humane Society or SPCA I think you're mistaken, I don't know thier exact ages but I don't know if they qualify as AR, and if you are considering them as AR, then you are mistaken on their "fame," they are far more well known than PeTA. So that there is no mistake I want to make it perfectly clear, I think ALL these groups serve a valuable purpose. But I also think they have made mistakes.

This is what I was hoping for...a reasonable conversation. Some people go ape-shit if you dare suggest PeTA is not perfect...

I agree with most of what has been said, PeTA has done a tremendous amount of good, but sometimes they do more damage, at least lately. As far as them euthanizing, my point is why are they attacking other gr4oups that euthanize?! And does anybody know their stance on pitbulls? I still haven't heard about that. If they are for euthanizing all pitbulls as is ther rumor, then that's just f**ked up!!! There are a few aggressive dogs of that breed, but that's the owners fault not the dog's! Most pits I've known are real sweeties! I work at the SPCA, we have a lot of pits we rescue from the Humane Society (kinda ironic) and they are all sweet & affectionate dogs, even the ones who came from fighting backgrounds...still sweet after all the sh%t they've been through. Of course I realize we don't see the highly aggressive ones. I say euthanize the as**oles, not the victims!!!

I didn't put a whole lotta faith in that Penn & Teller crap, but it was depressing...was that the show you were talking about? But you hit it on the nose, they're (PeTA) a BUSINESS. And they sponsor a whole bunch of veggie "hipsters." Once you reach a certain size I think its impossible to keep the heart of the movement at the forefront...too much pressure to please too many people. I can be reasonable about it. PeTa (in my opinion) is AR 101-a great beginner course. These days I really like Vegan Outreach...one of their pamphlets can do way more damage than 10 people dancing in the middle of the street in a cow costume. As a matter of fact, one of my professors has been hinting that he wanted to try vegetarianism. I gave him a Why Vegan last week and his wife, another professor asked my wife two days ago where the best tofu in town was. With any luck I got 2 converts with 1 pamphlet, I ain't ever seen the PeTA cow do that! I have seen it piss people off though...you gotta win their hearts and minds, not make 'em hate you!

No need to thank me, I thank Barbell for putting up with me for so long! Barbells too cool, heres another pic from the same day...

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/444/zoepics10638ny.jpg

I saw that Penn & Teller documentary...it kind of bummed me out on Penn and Teller. They were kinda assholes, especially since they lumped the whole AR movement with PeTA. To be honest I'm torn on alot of AR tactics...mostly due to how I see Pro-life people. When I see idiots protesting in front of Planned Parenthood I wonder " is that what AR people look like to others?" Thats a whole 'nother topic...

My own personal experiecne is that I have turned far more friends vegetarian than enemies...so I proceed with that in mind.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to moving from here...

As for why they teach them about vegans...its so the know who they are up against. As for having the wrong idea about what goes on in a slaughter house..hhmmmm...just a guess, is it a HOUSE where animals are SLAUGHTERED? He might be right, they're probably not houses per se, more like giant factories, but I think I know what goes on there.

To give you an idea how backwards this place is, I went to Quaker Meetings here for a while and discovered one of the six "Friends" was a Prof. @ WT A&M and he created and studied cattle carcasses!!!!!! Quakers here are just "progressive Baptists". NO self respecting Quaker anywhere else would have been involved in such a field.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Thanx for the help...I can fine tune from here, hopefully...you have enlightened me to the wonders of computation!

This is me and Barbell...Actually it's Arabella, but somehow when she was a pup it turned into Barbell thru baby talk...she's 14 years old...her mom was a dear friend and Barbell was her first pup. Her mom didn't know what was going on so I had to help deliver her. We gave her to a "friend" who ended up abusing her. She ran away from him several times and kept winding up on our doorstep. Once she dove through an open window. After a while I caught on to the abuse and decided I would keep her. She's a real sweetheart, but she can be a grumpy old lady sometimes.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4620/zoepics10645om.jpg

I'm still new to these computating machines and I can't figure how to post a pic...can someone walk me thru?

I know, I'm a moron!

She knows why we don't eat animals, thats not the problem, the real problem is it alienates her from other kids. Kids tease her, we all know how "kind" kids can be to one another. Especially in elementary and Junior high it seems so important to fit in. She has no friends her own age who live the same lifestyle...we will move soon, out of the beef belt, hopefully then it will be different for her. Surely there are other parents out there who can relate, or is Amarillo the only place so intolerant of heretical vegetarians (3 things you can't bad mouth in Texas...God, Beef, 'merica)

And yet another thing concerning euthanasia...

recently I was visiting a pit bull rescue site and several people were griping about PeTAs stance on the issue, as I recall they were calling for euthanasia of "dangerous" breeds to stop dog fights, attacks...I don't know if this is even true, does anybody know about this issue? Is that really their stance these days? If so it is the PARAMOUNT of hippocracy. It could be fabricated. I should try to find that site again to double check the exact context, either way, they're not making friends among people who could be valuable allies...

And another thing...

Lately PeTa been campaigning against animal shelters that euthanize...this is just hippocritical...years ago in '92 when I first joined PeTA there was a scandal because it was discovered they had euthanized a bunch of resued rabbits due to an inability to care for them. They tried to keep it on the down low, but word got out and they justified it. Does any body else remember that? I mean come on!!!! I hate euthanization of animals due to human stupidity, but aren't there bigger tofu chunks to fry? I swear, sometimes I think they have been infiltrated and are being destroyed from within! Speaking of...slightly off topic but consider this....my father is in law enforcement in GA., he worked security with some 1000 or so other cops for some big G7 type conference in Savanah a few years ago. They were expecting another Seattle so there was lotof law enforcement, but only a few protestors showed up. About a dozen people were arrested, heres the best part...HALF OF THOSE ARRESTED WERE UNDERCOVER LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!!! My dad thought it was hilarious, I finf it disturbing, and only adds to my paranoia about PeTA

Yeah, I loved her reaction. I have to admit it can sometimes be embarrassing. She can sometimes make scenes. There have been many times where we have been eating out or at a friends house and she will announce (to all) that we don't eat animals because we love them. It's only embarrassing because sometimes we just want to have a quiet meal and not debate someone over our life style choice. But, I guess I'm proud of her most of all.