VeganBadass_CO

Hi! Interesting post, I had to read it yesterday, think about it, and then try to post to you today.

Def sounds like a food question to me.

I am not overweight, but my body just holds on to a certain amount of body fat that I can never seem to get rid of. I am an active person, I love working out... But no matter how hard I workout, my body still never let's go of this ammount of body fat I try to lose.

This one reads to me as not just a 'what' you're eating, but when...

One thing that happened other than weightloss though, was acne. Acne on my face, chest, back, and arms. With the weightloss,

Hmm....

Paired up with the other observables:

- weight off, then status quo no matter what you ate, then weight gain,

- Lots of water, 8+ hrs sleep <--- this is very good!

- love love love fruit..eat a lot...hmm...

- do not eat a whole lot of fat...hmm...

Things to me sound like the right track for you, just a little out of balance maybe.

Good overall health is balance, first sleep/rest/water, 2nd nutrition, 3rd exercise.

Just from your general right up, I'd say your general diet is veg+fruit. Sometimes rice and potatoes. Would be good to work in some other things for balance in your micros and a broader source for protein's and fats. Need both. Generally, out of balance over-consumption of anything can reveal themselves as body fat, esp around the waist. Too much carbs (esp processed carbs), too much sugars, and yeah, too much protein too.

With your various workouts, I didn't read anything in your right up about any energy or performance issues. So that's good!

I don't know much about the "Raw till 4" and I only use protein powders when I know my meals for the day have been 'light' on particular nutrients and can quickly make a smoothie post workout (spinach/kale, fruits, chia, almond milk, pea or hemp protein, water/ice, etc.). With a balanced, variety of plants and fruits in your diet, I'd think that the probiotic is unnecessary, but with your past stomach issues probably ok...I don't know enough about them to know if you get too much are if they're unnecessary do they just 'pass through' or get stored?

Also, to really optimize yourself, should be eating like 5-6 times a day. Eating till you're satisfied (not full) and eating based on either what you just did, or what you're about to do. Foods can include fruits as you list, but some can have higher sugar content than others, so depending on when you're having them and what you're doing afterwards, they could be a contributor to weight. Thinking you need some more grains/fiber/beans in your meals. You need carbs for energy. Protein is a poor energy source...better for repair/recovery.

Need a bit more detail though on a few things,

1) what's in your green smoothie for breakfast?

Lately, my summertime breakfast has been a 'breakfast bowl', usually contains: oatmeal, some steelcut oats, sometimes some chia/bit of peanut butter/flax (for omega oils), almond milk, fruit -- strawberries/blueberries, etc.). Lots of energy, lots of fiber, pretty nutritionally dense. Alternatively, will make my other go-to breakfast (quinoa, lentils, peppers/onion/mushrooms/etc., spices, sometimes some light-life sausage to mix it up, sometimes tomato, whatever is on hand. Ate straight up or with some high quality whole grain breads. (note, safeway has started carrying an awesome bread for like $2.50 loaded with grains, quinoa, chia, etc. -- and no egg/dairy!).

Note, you can put oats or similar in your smoothie if you haven't tried it.

2) salads: nothing wrong with these, just curious what goes in them?

3) fat: Avocado is a great source! I don't purposely avoid fats or add them. They are what they are. Though I do have on average a tsp or 2 a day of coconut oil in my tea or coffee. Otherwise, I just get whatever fats are in my meals naturally. You do need fats for your body, joints, skin, hair, etc.. So, just don't purposely avoid them, esp if you're eating raw/clean.

Good rule of thumb is to only make small (10%) changes every couple of weeks to see how it goes, better or worse. If you've put on some weight, or have a stubborn amount that you can't get rid of, sounds like too much in (cals/carbs) than out. Based on description, I'd target fruit as I think it's pretty hard to eat more calories than you need just from veg....that would be an impressive amount! So maybe replace a serving or 2 of fruit with some other veg or similar -- thinking about lower sugar content things. Then after 7-14 days, track your weight, appearance or measurements, energy levels....

Powders and supplements have their place, but too often can become lazy way of not getting familiar with your body, your nutritional needs and the signals you're body will send you. Without a whole lot of effort, you can get in-tune with your body, and start to just sense when your body is telling you it needs something, some potassium, or some magnesium, or more protein or whatever.

Look forward to your answers about the the smoothie and salad ingredients....you can do this! we can help!!

lots of opinions for SURE! LOL!

Thrive fitness from Brandon Brazier is a good read.

Generally, I go with what my body is doing...if maintaining my weight and having good energy/recovery from my exercise then probably doing okay in sustain mode. If dropping weight when I don't want too...then siimply not getting enough foods/cals so usually tweak my portions and see how it goes. When I want to focus on building size/mass, then portion sizes up 10% again (just using eyeball method to be honest), and add in a bit more to my inbetween snacks (fruits, nuts, simple carbs, etc.) and look to have bit more proteins in my post-workout/evening meal.

Depending on whats for meals that day, I do keep some pea protein powder on hand to whip up in a nutrient dense smoothie, but I don't ascribe to inclusion of shakes/smoothies/powders as part of my regular daily meals..

 

I haven't gotten a pull up bar yet, but I may in the future. I'm just trying to work with what I have currently, as I'm on a budget as well now. What exercises should I drop and what are more compounds I could add? The reason I did so much is because I can't really lift heavy for things like squats, so I thought adding more, and adding accessories would help me where I'm lacking. :/

Just read this part. You CAN add in some combo exercises using just dumbbells. One from Les Mills...Clean/Press w/squats...

Feet shoulder width apart. Can do lots of these so a kind of light weight. Start with weights down by your side, as you pull them up as if you were getting into shoulder press position, do a squat as you move the weights up so that you're in your squat as the dumbbells arrive at your shoulders. Stand up out of your squat as you lower the weights back down (first rep -- arm movement can look sort of like doing hammer curls with a pause at your shoulders.

2nd set....after getting down in your squat as the weights reach your shoulders, slight pause, then execute dumbbell press as you stand up and straighten your knees. Squat again as you bring the weights back down to your shoulder, finally, straightening your legs as you lower the lower weights back down to start position. Repeat....

3rd set...pause when you get weights overhead following shoulder press...squat again, and then back up..keeping arms up over head, then as you lower weights back down to shoulders squat again...reverse curl back to start...repeat repeat repeat..

These should both get you breathing pretty hard as a combo exercise and also exhaust your shoulders while working your legs and core.

Notes: During the 'clean' part, work to keep your elbows in. Also during squats portions focus on your form...bending properly with butt sticking out as opposed to bending over at the waist....

Hi!

So you got some workout tips already. Me, I think the way you have our exercises laid out is okay. BUT, I've found much much better results for me by NOT doing 3-4 reps of any exercise in serial fashion. Meaning, used to hit the gym, and for example would knock out 3 reps of an exercise and then move on to the next.....so, biceps curls, 1 set of 10 reps with say 30lbs, rest, then set 2 with 35lbs....rest then set 3.... (repeat for bench, etc.

My results like what you described...very slow to grow in strength with moderate growth in size.

Enter the 21st Century...and a new approach with MUCH better results. I would suggest keeping your sequence of exercises but do them SEQUENTIALLY (1 set, then move on to the next exercise, and then the next), repeat. ONLY do each 'cycle' 2x. Try that for a month and see how it goes. Best to write it all down too...weights, and # of reps. Depending on your goals, if looking for strength/tone pick weight that you can do 10-14 reps. If you're looking for size, 8-10 reps. Maybe reorganize your sequence to avoid working same muscle group in a row. Lastly, minimize rest periods between exercises.

I'd make a few changes to your warm up (get your heart rate up a bit!) with some jumping jacks, arm-circles, and add in some planking pretty much every day, even non-workout days. burpees, lunges, variety of pushups (standard, narrow, wide, diamond..)

Now to the even more important part...food.

If you're packing it on in the wrong places that would likely be both a combo of not just how much you're eating but also what you're eating and when. For your size, your calorie count sounds a bit high to me on workout days. I'd suggest consider targeting an average 2000/day, and more focus on the what/when you eat around your workouts. All about balance, too much carbs as you mention AND too much protein can both result in added body fat esp around your middle. I can't really say one way or the other on your comment about macros or whether your grms of carbs are too much -- I'd be more curious about the SOURCE of your carbs?

Most excellent mantras to entrench in your mind is 'to either eat for what you just did, or for what you are about to do'. Likewise, don't eat till your full, eat till you're satisfied. And you should be eating something like every 2-4 hrs based upon your activities. In general, plan for a few more carbs in your before-workout meal, and a bit more protein on workout days, with intent of getting a good dose on the evenings after working out so your body has fuels to rebuild/recover.

Do share a few examples of your typical meals for some more suggestions.

interesting! As I'm currently rocking the 'stubble' look, I mostly wash my face and the rest in the shower, then shave my neck in the shower just by 'feel'. Usually just use some shampoo or shower gel....

Hey Todd!

Don't fret. We all need some tweaks/changes to both our food and our exercise routines and this board is great for helping with both!

You touched on both topics, but probably better to start with what you're eating and then move on the the exercise (okay, maybe a little summary of what kinds of things you've been doing, we can get into more detail later on.) if the nutrition is off then you're making your exercise results harder to achieve.

While I didn't click around beyond the link you shared to see what they were selling, I think I'd only sort of agreed with like 2-3 of the things on the list as being 'worthless'. Much of their claim to 'worth' or reward/risk/effort to me points more to form than it did the actual exercise. Doing anything incorrectly not only can get you injured but also can really diminish the benefit of the work.

First think I picked up from your intro post was how to get rid of (and keep off) that persistent trouble area(s) without killing yourself every day. ENTIRELY do able! and sustainable! and without deprivation associated with most other 'diets'.

So that said...and a big wave...

lets talk about what you're typically eating and when? Don't have to worry much now about measurements, etc....just the 'stuff'...

Yeah! Another martial artist!!

Lots of good questions, some are basic beginners questions, some stuff we've all struggled with or learned along the way, and some definitely part of the de-programming we all need esp if we weren't raised on plant-based lifestyles. LOTS of myth and marketing about both counting calories, grams of this and that, etc....some things to watch and worry about but other to just let go of and trust the completeness that is a diverse, well planned plant-based lifestyle.

Happy to help ya!!!

Hi and welcome to both the boards and the vegan lifestyle!

Can't immediately offer up help without knowing more about both where you are currently (height, weight, current foods and execise) and what your target/need areas or issues are? I guess I'm better at tweaking the things you are already doing as opposed to giving you a wholesale 'do this' guide -- not one size fits all.

Nutrition will be key to your success. There are multiple ways and approaches to both tightening up, body sculpting, and when to start your 'cut' to drop body fat about 3 weeks leading up to competition.

Coincidentally, I did just find, read-about and engage with Amanda Fisher on facebook/twitter. Successful vegan bikini competitor. Will post a link below.

http://femmefitale.com/amanda-fisher/

1 16oz package firm tofu (sprouted or not...organic for sure! #COSTCO!)

1 Tbs olive oil (I used coconut oil)

1/2 cup diced white onion

3/4 cup chopped red/green/orange/whatever pepper

1/2 cup finely chopped Anaheim pepper

1/4 tsp coriander

1/2 tsp cumin

1/4 tsp garlic powder

1/2 tsp himalayan pink salt (or regular, but get this!!! again #COSTCO)

1 1/4 tsp ground tumeric

3 Tbs chopped green onions for serving

3-4 tortillas, warmed (or not, i used toast)

optional:

1 sliced avocado for serving

Sour cream (I used vegan/non-dairy)

Salsa (if you like)

Drain water then remove tofu from pacakge and set on plate with kitchen paper to dry it out. Press on top with another piece of kitchen paper (paper towel, haha!) to remove excess moisture. Then place in medium mixing bowl and smash well using your favorite fork. Looking for crumbly consistency.

Heat oil in large skillet over medium heat. Add the onions, red pepper and Anaheim pepper (leave out or use different kind depending on your preference for spice!) and cook until soft, 3-4 minutes. Stir as needed to prevent sticking and for even cooking.

Stir in the coriander, cumin, garlic powder and salt and cook until just incorporated and fragrant, 1 min or so. Stir in the smashed tofu and the turmeric along with 2 Tbs of water, and cook until the mixture is warmed completely, 1-2 mins Taste and season with additional salt or ground black pepper if you'd like.

Serving:

If using tortillas, warm them up per instructions. Suggest Engine 2 sprouted tortillas. Add some spinach, then scoop a generous portion of scramble atop the tortilla and garnish with green onion and sliced avocado. Add sour cream or salsa as you like!

If using nice, whole grain toast, serve the scramble on the toast, or put the toast on the side as you like. Suggest serving the scramble on-top of a bed of spinach.

Optional: Add in spinach at same times a adding the tofu as a lot of it will cook down nicely and add some color to the dish.

Enjoy!!!!

Do you have a link or did I miss it?

Tried finding the original, but the backlink on the site where the article was posted was no longer valid. Maybe too long ago for the article online? I copied and pasted....

You guys are funny!!!

I thought putting all the veg in your tequila neutralized the effects -- like peeps getting Big Mac extra value meal supersized with a diet coke....

I don't know about one or two drinks equaling 2 weeks lost. Mike Dolce who does nutrition/training for UFC fighters commented on a pod-cast that a 'cheat day' (maybe it was a cheat meal? I forget) can undo 2 days of good nutrition and working out. That makes a little more sense to me than 1 beer or unit of alcohol knocking away 2wks of training...unless except that 1 unit of alcohol leads to a plate of nachos, or wings, or both, and other similar crap bar foods.

All things in moderation! And in the event I go a bit over that moderation point...there's always extra stuff to do tomorrow to make up for it...

one time (only 1!) I added in some lemon to my smoothie -- it did NOT compliment the kale....ewww!!!

Hi! Sorry...work/life getting in the way!

Not exactly anti-suppliment/powder products. I do have a big tub of pea protein, some spirulina and some sample kinds of hemp that I've yet to try from the store.

Generally, for those getting into body-building/fitness/weights, we've been marketed too since Joe Weider in the 70s/80s that to really max your performance you need to BUY products (Creatine, protein/amino acids suppliments, pre/post workout drinks both pre-made or make it yourself). Have to remember that in large part a lot of the benefit from products is marketing. Here with lots of these we get a note at the bottom saying "Results not typical."

So paid spokes people may well use the products they pitch to us, but what is left out is:

A) what shape were they in before taking the product, and

B) what else in their diet/exercise routine is also a factor.

On one hand, the products can help the beginner who knows little about good, proper nutrition, and just eats how we were raised as children or how we see our friends eat. I think that with some effort and a good support community (like veganbodybuilding.com!) one can for the most part go 'natural' and focus on getting all their nutritional needs met through plain foods. Timing and awareness of generally what you've eaten in a day, and what you need to eat post-workout to nourish your body for recovery does of course matter.

I'm not perfect. Some days depending on what leftovers from dinner are around for my lunch, what I had for breakfast, etc. can be less than optimal. SO, through some fruit, ice, veg, pea protein, chia, flax into the nutribullet and I'm good to go!

Reliance on suppliments I think is kind of weak in the long run. Better to learn your body, learn your foods....then you're good for life...pre-workout, post-workout, restaurant eating, at a friends for a party -- just looking at the foods and knowing a little about the ingredients and you can choose wisely.

was searching for something else, came across this link in the process. Thought I'd share...though for my 2014 update, I'd nix the canola/olive oils...go for coconut. Avoid to the extent possible processed foods.

--------------------------

How to Be an MMA Fighter on a Vegan Diet

Daniel O'Rourke, Yahoo! Contributor Network

Mar 13, 2011

MMA may very well be the fastest-growing sport in the world today. As techniques, training methods and fighting styles are evolving rapidly, another aspect is evolving as well; fighters are changing their diets. Even in boxing, Muay Thai, and kickboxing, we are seeing an increasing trend of vegan fighters. Athletes are finding that they can gain more muscle, lose more weight, and win more fights on a vegan diet. But how do you become a champion fighter on a vegan diet? These are tips on how to become a vegan warrior.

#1 Go for whole foods.

The ideal vegan diet comes primarily from whole vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, seeds, and beans. Supplements, energy bars and protein shakes are great, but they should not compromise your whole diet. Foods come in varying degrees of wholeness, so remember that the less processed it is, the better. Brown rice is better than white rice, apples are better than apple sauce, and tempeh, miso or tofu are all better than soy protein concentrate. Following this rule, you will lose weight, gain muscle and have more steady energy.

#2 Don't stress about protein.

Vegans have no problem getting enough protein. It is true you need the protein to build up muscles and recover from training, but even the most brutal MMA training regimen does not demand animal flesh. All vegetables and whole grains contain protein. Nuts seeds and beans are especially rich in vegan protein. If you're really looking to up your intake, you can go for tofu, tempeh, miso or spirulina. An MMA fighter needs at least 1.6 grams of protein per Kg of body weight. If you're eating right, you should have no problem getting all the amino acids you need to build muscle.

#3 Don't skip the fat. You have likely heard that you should avoid all fats, but I'm telling you otherwise. Fats will keep you feeling full for longer, and you will need them for endurance over the long, grueling training sessions that MMA requires. Vegan fighters don't get their fats from meat, they get them from sources rich in monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Canola or olive oil, nuts and avocados are all good sources. Avoid packaged foods, which are packed with saturated and trans fats.

#4 Ignore low-carb fad diets

Carbohydrates are your body's main source of fuel and energy. You are not going to be an MMA champion without energy; you aren't even going to survive training. A vegan fighter loves his carbohydrates. Eat natural, unprocessed sources like: whole grains, potatoes, and fruit. Avoid processed sugars and packaged food, which will slow you down and make you fat.

#5 Avoid alcohol completely

Staying away from alcohol is not a guideline; it's a rule. One beer can set you back 2 weeks or more. Vegan or not, nothing will beat you faster than spending a Saturday at the bar.

By following these tips, you will be well on your way to becoming a vegan fighter. Whether you are boxing, kickboxing or fighting MMA, you are now on your way to dominating your sport.

An EXCELLENT non-weight, non-bodyweight upper body workout is....(drumroll.......). Fighting. Boxing. Working the heavy bag. Activities that work your whole body, from your legs, through your core and can absolutely shred your chest/back/shoulders/arms.

Talking functional size, cut, and endurance exercise.

Something you can do at home with a bag, or without a bag but some weighted gloves to make up for the lack of a bag. The strike and quick retraction fires the push and pull muscles on either side of the motion, the impact delivers the strength-training 'pop' of the full muscle flow. Done properly it engages legs and core.

More on this if you're interested....

Good to know overall working and feeling/recovering better!

Quick scan through your foods listed again. Any particular time you feel the bloating?

Would assume you're also drinking like a gallon of water a day?

Without knowing when the bloating feeling comes, my scan kind of targeted in on either the oats or the rice in your later meals.

One thing to keep in mind, if its overall working, just need some small changes here and there to get it good. So could do things like for a week try replacing the rice with some more quinoa or lentils/beans alternatively. See how you feel.

With the exception of the powder supplements, all the rest looks pretty clean to me.

Will think about it and get back to you later on...

Will share what I got later on.

Like lots of things in life, linkages of cause-effect and diet is a complex equation. So there are most definitely cases where one thing or another has occurred and likely 'cause' could be identified (with our without much scientific study). Probably everyone knows of an example of someone who smoked like 6 packs a day and drank loads and lived to be 90 -- doesn't make either one good for you generally.

That said, I don't own a soy farm nor have anything to gain/lose from consumption or not. Plenty of people either just don't like it or choose not to have it and do just fine. haha!

So--circling back to your initial post/questions. Diet looks pretty good to me. And the spreading it out over 5-6 meals is put out as a good way to maintain good nutrient content, energy for your body's needs, and replenishment. How long have you been following it, and doing your current workout routine? How are results so far? Good power, size growth, energy?

Need more time than I have now before work to pull out some references. From another post I shared last summer.

I have lots of books and some of the empirical evidence would be contrary to the claims put forward about soy being bad. In places like the far East where soy has been a primary food for centuries, reproduction doesn't seem to be a problem, nor any villages filled up with with men sprouting breasts.

Soy myth compatible to the protein myth. And as documented by many, the vegan myth -- that being that vegans are all thin, pasty, anemic due to lack of protein and will die due to malnutrition. LOTS of claims are based on marketing from those wanting sell us one thing or another. PLENTY of plant-based examples of athletes in all sports from bodybuilding, to NFL, to MMA and endurance runners and ultra-marathoners (Rich Roll, Brendan Brazier, etc).

So, have to run. I can cite references and studies later on. But like studies that say 'the all bacon and sticks of butter diet is good for you' or 'smoking is healthy' or ....... it's possible to select and steer statistics in a preferred direction if one is so motivated -- usually to sell crap.

One of the speakers pointed out that diary industry was quick to jump on the soy = estrogen = man boobs (note, my wife has been vegetarian for decades, consumed lots of soy and nope, no side-effect boob job emerged....haha!

 

The speaker pointed out that soy does NOT contain estrogen, but does contain the phyto-nutrients or underlying chemical compounds that make up estrogen....2 different things. Like saying drinking water H2O is like drinking peroxide H2O2 because they contain the same ingredients...same but totally different!

I get all my protein and other macros from food. I do bump it up with a post workout smoothie when my workout warrants it, usually spinach/kale, whatever fruit is on hand -and yeah bananas are magic-, ,maybe some chia/hemp if on hand, and some NOW pea protein powder). Some ice/water....recently started adding in some spirulina but it dominates the taste so far. Not bad, just more 'green' and plant tasting....

Fueling up based on either what I just did, or what I'm about to do.

The rest works itself out in variety and combinations of plant-based goodness!

Yeah, takes some time to learn. Some experimentation with what to eat. Veg/Vegan newbies tend to go to the powdered this and that or the mass marketed pre-/-post workout concoction...to each their own I guess.

I'm with you..life's short, what you nourish yourself on should be tasty!!!

Looks pretty good. A bit heavy on the processed protein/creatine stuff for me.

Agree with what c.o. said - the soy myth debunked.

Add some color to that diet! Good greens and browns...now some reds, yellows, purples...peppers, onions, squash..esp now that its prime time summer for fresh veg (here in US, you measure in gms so maybe you're not here?).

were all young and naive (and some -- er, most? -- done dumb things). maybe not all similar to your case, but seeing it for what it was, mistake, paying for it, learning and evolving into new 'you' -- that's positive!!!

Loved your intro! Will check back again....

nice post! Often it's the unexpected changes of plan that turn out to be the best experiences! Like foregoing planned run to go to unplanned sparing....nice!!!

Hmm...DC eh?

Whole of my family still lives there, I left shortly after college at about 26 yrs old.

I could probably cover the negatives in a pretty short list:

1) housing is expensive. Simply due to density of population. While a standard 4 br house on 1/4 acre lot in a suburb can easily top $500k, 500k in Colorado will get you a very upscale house, and a bit more land. With high property prices comes high taxes too. Based on limited research I've done in considering move to SoCal....DC area probably comparible for the housing prices. Of course the further out you live, the more you can get for the money, but....(lead in to #2)

2) Traffic is horrible. Trade off for where to live. Short commutes (depending on where you need/want to go) usually come with higher prices. Metro is expanding further out so that helps.

3) Lots of people...many not so friendly/open as I've come across in other parts of the country to include SoCal. IMO put it down to lots of 'keeping up with the Jones' and putting out appearances instead of being authentic.

4) very easy to get 'washingtonized' or politicized as much of the news is so focused...limited 'local' coverage in my recollection.

The pros...

1) lots of diversity.

2) lots to see and do in DC esp if you're not from that area.

3) beaches not too far, likewise for nature and mountains (hills really by CO standards! haha!) and woods, etc. just a few miles west/north.

4) lots of opportunity whether looking to job hop depending on your field, and lots of opportunities for vegan bodybuilding tips, training, probably even a vegan-vegetarian exclusive gym w/nutrition classes, cooking, etc..

I rarely go back. And when I do am quickly reminded why I left in the first place. Quality of life for me was better anywhere else. note: Colorado can spoil you in comparison to major parts of the country. Low cost of living, not real traffic issues (with exception of Denver during rush hours, no humidity, good temperate climate. Friendly people....but still, would consider living possibly in SoCal or Hawaii if just for a few years.....

Where abouts in DC area you thinking about?

Yayy!!! Was right on with Dr F on preference to get my nutrients from the actual foods/fruits/veg/nuts/beans.

We don't abstain from some of the 'meat' options (just getting into the beyond meat stuff) for some things just roll that way, but have learned how to substitute veg for lots of meals.

Only human.....

be interested to read the Dr Fuhrman article..thanks for posting link, and no, haven't read it yet so will give my opinion and then go see if I'm right/wrong/partially correct.

SO, the whole protein thing. 2 parts of it to me, 1 is the source and 2 is the bio-absorption.

Preferable to eat a rounded enough variety of plants, beans, nuts, etc. to get all your proteins. For some though that's easier said than done. Doing the variety approach can get you all the bits of 'complete' protein which can also be had from single sources like spirulina.

As the protein powders do exist and mix nicely in with a post workout smoothie...(mine are often mixed fruit, kale, spirulina - just started this, and pea powder). Pea powder is tasteless and has mixes well. Info is here: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/go-pea-pea-protein-for-every-nutrition-plan.html

On recommendation of other posts on this forum, I did get some hemp samples from wholefoods (haven't tried them) and some do a combo product that contains pea/wheat/hemp all together.

I've had good results from supplimenting with the pea powder -- usually on days when my other meals might have been lighter than usual. Other days, depending on whats for breakfast and lunch and dinner I skip it. Most days have lots of different sources for me, and on my really long days (work, workout + krav) it's all loaded up....lentils/qunioa/veg concoction for, nicely sourced lunch (usually leftovers from dinner prior in the week) containing beans, or faux-meat option (boca, light-life, beyond meat, etc.) and carb up at lunch too for endurance....fruit in the afternoon on the way to Krav...tons of plain old water, sometimes mixed with some chia seeds....then dinner after.

Can't think of any negative aspects, of course it's probably easier to OD on it than you can with whole-foods derived sources. All about balance.

I'd heard it that fasted training has it's place but it's not optimal for regular engagment -- for reasons like you experienced, and not having the fuels on board for a sustained workout. To each their own, but unless trying to get cut or make weight, I don't get it?

You mention 'no oils'? Can I ask why?

Coconut oil is the bomb!! for cooking, for in your tea/coffee.....mmmm!!!

Source-wise I think you're pretty safe with which ever option you go with or the combo thing. I have found that WHEN I take on various nutrients impacts my performance. So a little experimenting, logging what you ate, when and how you felt...will get you in tune with your own bodies preferences for pre/post workout consumptions.

Off to read Dr Furhman now and see how wrong I got it...lol!