DanDz

Hell to all my old friends on the site and all then newbies. Even though I am not new, I am posting in this category because I haven't written in a while. I have been a member of veganbodybuilding.com since 2004, I believe, maybe 2003. I can't quite remember now. But anyway, although I may not post as much as I used to, I stil hang out reading things on the site quite often. It still amazes me how much this site has grow in the past couple years - truly amazing and that alone serves a sign of inspiration to us all about the health, longevity, and growth of the vegan movement. I also figured now was a good time to re-introduce myself because I see there are a couple of people from the New England area, more specifically Connecticut who have recently joined. I myself was born and raised in CT and plan to live here for life. For those that are from CT, I live in East Windsor, in north-central Connecticut, about 20 minutes outside of Hartford. News about myself: I recently graduated from UConn and am in the final weeks of wedding prepartion. My finacee and I are getting married on July 2nd, and are honeymooning for 4-5 weeks around this beautiful country. (She is a school teacher and has the summers off, and I am in the midst of a job change after being with the same company for 5 years, so now is as good a time as ever to take off for the summer...we probably won't have the opportunity to do it again.) Besides that we recently celebrated our 1 year anniversary in our first home. I have been living here since last October after doing about 6 months of renovation prior to moving in. And since we are more traditionlists, Andrea will be moving in officially after we get married. Nonetheless, life is looking good and I hope God continues to bless us and our marriage in all his beautiful ways! May God bless everyone on this site and hopefully I won't be such a stranger in the future! P.S. Hi to my old friends - Rob, CompassionateGirl, and hi to all my new ones! Keep the Faith

Did you guys have to do any dissection in your anatomy & physiology classes, how much? If you refused to dissect, how did the instructor treat your refusal? Just curious because I will be taking an anatomy & physiology class soon.

Nat, I knew somebody would ask me that. I am afraid I don't know exactly how to explain it, at least not within Christianity. As I said in a different thread, I have a good friend who became a Hare Krishna devotee. His love of God which was great before, has strengthened. He is always telling me about the philosophies of this religion and they are very interesting and there are many similarities to Christianity. I don't really know how to explain it from a Christian philosophy, but my friend would say, as according to the bhagavat-gita, this is the Age Of Kali-uga and there is so much corruption and impurity. The laws of karma just simply tell us that the murders of animals are attached to killing, and thus they will be killed in their next life, as they have not attained God realization. That was about animals, but what about little children with cancer? That is when it gets so hard to explain. With cancer specifically, all I know is that cancer does not just happens, it develops. There are reasons a person becomes sick. Of course, with a child that is harder to say. There is a host of environmental and physical reasons that they may be stricken with the disease. I think it is extremely foolish to attribute God with the cause of the disease. From a more eastern perspective, perhaps even the young child was born with bad karma from a previous life. Perhaps that spirit soul within this child, was once a butcher in their past life. I know this sounds tough, but we do have the choice of where our destiny will take us. ( I realize I have incorporated a view of Christianity with reincarnation and karma, two words that seem forbidden in Christianty. But, I believe they can exist with the other and wouldn't have it any other way.)Tough question!

Hartford, Connecticut. Well about 20 minutes outside of the city to be exact, in an area of mixed rural farmland and small industry, nesteled alongside the mighty Connecticut River...the town is East Windsor, Connecticut. Anyone else on hear from New England?

Jonathan, my friend, what is honestly the point of living if there is no God? Why not kill yourself now, but wait, before that go on doing whatever you want, whenever you want, because there is no reason to live morally if ther is no God. Without God, what is the point of this material existence? Why even live, there is no point? No God, no point to life. I think early you were trying to make a claim against the notion that God does punish his people. Some might wonder, if God is so loving, why do these weather events happen, for instance, where so many suffer? Well, haven't you ever been punished out of love? Didn't your mother punish you as a child? Not because she wanted you to suffer, but rather because she loved you? Your mother did not say, "If you only want to eat candy go ahead, if want to go play in the street, go ahead?" No there were rules and regulations to follow for a proper life, and if you broke those rules you were punished. But again, punished out of love. In much the same way, God is love. If the people don't obey the rules and regulations of God, thus defying the laws of nature, they are punished. Punished out of love. Furthermore, Natalie's discussion subject did not invite criticism. It only invited a spiritual, philosophical debate. Also, she did not pick out bits and pieces of the Bible of which to alter to her own liking. She discussed certain passages where there is no debate to the meaning of the words. I too have read into some eastern philosophies. I actually have a very close friend who is krisna conscious and they have their ancient scriptures called the bhagavat-gita. Other realigions of the eastern world also use these scriptures. Vegetarianism is also a commandment in the bhagavat-gita. Animal slaughter is prohibited, mostly for karmic reasons. If you kill in this love, you too, in turn, will be killed in the next life due to the laws of karma. To break free fromt the cycle of birth and death, you must attain God realization. God realization is the point of all religions. What is the point of life, if there is no God? ( and I know you are going to ask, what is the piont of life, if there is a God.) I'lll be wating.

Megan, welcome. I find it great that you are a nutrition major and are becoming a registered dietician. I will be graduating shortly from the University of Connecticut and will be applying for a doctorate program in Naturopathic Medicine. While there I also hope to get a master's degree in human nutrition. There are so many nutritional fallacies being espoused today it seems. We need more people like you, who know the truth about how amazingly healthy and natural a vegetarian diet is. Interestingly enough, I am taking a course this semester on Health and Wellness. There is this undergraduate nutrition major in the class and we debated many times concerning nutrition subjects. Oh yeah and it is an online class, so everything is seen by all members of the class. Anyway, although she didn't directly dismiss a vegetarian diet as bad, she always had a way of stating indirectly that a plant based diet is not healthy. But, I do feel that I made a pretty strong stand against her...so all is well. Thanks for doing what you are doing - the vegetarian community needs it!

Mike it is great to have you on this site. Paul Bragg is certainly an amazing man and has published some great books. Have you read Miracle of Fasting? That really had a profound effect on me. Also, it is nice to have another person on board who feels that it is pleasing to God to live a more compassionate and spiritual life through a more compassionate and spiritual diet...and one that is full of health benefits as God intended. I think you said it best about why veganism is so great, "I feel like I need to be...because I believe it pleases God and it would be really good for me too...." Thanks for joining! Talk to you soon, on here, I am sure.

Welcome Nobbie! I think you will really enjoy the environment on this site. Enthusiastic, compassionate, intelligent, and healthy - all factors that make this a great site. Glad to have you on board!

Welcome Jason! Were you able to get any vegan or vegetarian food while in the Marines, how often? Thanks for joining us!

Nat, you always are so eloquant and profound in your words...nice job. Jonathan you said, "i think that judeochristian and islamic culture is a major hurdle for animal rights." Jonathan, by all you have said, I find you and people like you, to be the major hurdles for animal rights. I think I understand what you are trying to say, but remember it is not the religious principles themselves that are bad, it is usually the hypocritical people who follow these religions that are bad. I for one, think that aethiests are a major hurdle for animal rights. I know you don't believe in God, but if there is no God then why not kill. Why not kill and eat animals to just gratify your taste buds? Afterall, according to your thinking there is no greater being to judge your actions, so what is the harm? If there is no God, why not do everything that tempts you - lie, cheat, steal? You say there is no God, so what is the point of living compassionately? You have no reason to worry about karmic activities and the like if there is no God. Christianity is not a hurdle for animal rights - some of the followers who do not truly understand God are the major problems. On the other hand, aetheism is a huge hurdle for animal rights. The distinction must be noted.

Somehow, I missed all of this thread. I must have not checked in for a couple of days at that time. This is a very serious topic for me, but fortunately Natalie has said it all and more. CollegeB has also done a great job defending vegetarianism! Up until recently, I too was at odds with my faith concerning Christianity. Being raised a Catholic and still practicing today, I have been told by some hard-core, non-vegetarian, but otherwise spiritual Catholics, that meat eating is fine in the eyes of God, while vegetarianism is looked down upon or unnecessary for spiritual life. At the time I didn't know better. I was only vegetarian for ethical, environmental, and health reasons, but I had not yet made the connection between vegetarianism and my faith. Actually I think I had, but I just didn't know how the pieces fit together. After reading "The Lost Religion of Jesus"a by Keith Akers, my vegetarianism really came full circle. I had always knew that Jesus was a man of strict compassion and love, love of all life and creatures, but I just didn't know how to fit it all together. This book really was a great and miraculous read. I always tell people that I am vegetarian first for God. I am a vegetarian because I believe in God and believe in following the laws of God. If you look at the whole issue at the most basic level, God's intention can be shown. One of the Commandments is, "Thou Shall Not Kill." It doesn't get anymore simple. It does not say we shall not kill humans, but it is acceptable to kill animals. No, it says simply, "Thou Shall Not kill." No consolations. Then we have the vegetarian state in the Garden of Eden and God's many commands of vegetarianism throughout the Bible. We also have commands of compassion towards all creatures, including our animal brethren and respect for all life. Jesus, many biblical scholars conclude, was a vegetarian. He was the Prince of Peace, the extrem non-violentist, who decried in the hours before his death to his disciples, "Put Away the Swords." It is accepted that Jesus was extremely non-violent and killing is accepted as always being inherently violent, so why would Jesus ever kill or accept food of slaughtered animals - he wouldn't. Also, although many who wish to proclaim Jesus as a fish eater, point to the story of Jesus turning a loaf of bread and some fish into enough food to feed thousands as reasons for his meat-eating and also point to other passages where fish is mentioned at his meal, many scholars agree that the term has been altered in translation, as Nat and CollegeB pointed out. However, the issue isn't some much what Jesus ate then as it is, What would Jesus eat today? This most compassionate man surely wouldn't accept the factory farms, abuse, and slaughterhouses of today's world. He surely wouldn't accept the ways God creatures have been turned into living dollar signs for the meat, egg, and dairy industry at which they can torture and abuse freely. Jesus would surely reject all of these practices and would follow the laws of his father, God. Furthermore, MichaelHobson you said, "If your god were actually concerned about any of these issues, couldn't he just put a stop to it?" God grants us free will. We have the right granted by God to kill or to love. To be compassionate, or evil. To be a meat-eater or vegetarian. God grants us free will to do as we please. However, it does not mean he accepts behavior which defies his commands. God is most definitely concerned with this behavior, and he does punish the wicked. Many fail to see how God punishes. We can do as we please, but if it does not please God than we will be punished. Sometimes we get wacky weather, floods, periods of drought, great cold... this is God's power. God does stop behavior that does not please him, he punishes. Some ask, if God is so kind, so loving, why we he punish his people. But, he punishes out of love. Doesn't the mother sometimes punish her child out of love? Yes of course, and God does the same. So Michael, GOd is very concerned about these issues, however we do have free will to do as we please. He does punish, but not always in the easiest, most noticeable ways. God Bless!

Yes!!! I am so proud to see Connecticut on there, knowing that 2 of the shirts were for me! (LOL) Is anybody else on this site from Connecticut or New England?

Welcome to the site, Attila. I was just wondering: how is the vegan scene over in Germany? Are there more vegans/vegetarians in Germany, than the United States, percentage wise? Is it accepted at all in Germany? Here in the United States the whole vegetarian/vegan movement is really growing rapidly. There are more vegan foods than ever before, you hear more people talking about the diet, and you even hear more and more in the medical community embracing the diet as a very healthy one. So how are things in Germany?

Michael Hobson, I do like what you have to say. I guess it is one of those cases where we just agree about what to disagree on, but most importantly we are in accordance concerning the important issues. You do turn to science for your backing, while I turn to God. I don't dismiss scientific theory, but I think God comes first, then science. There is no science without God. We do have different views on the issue, but we are still vegan bretheren, first and foremost...and that is what is important! You asked, "If it's not "man's intended diet", then it's no good? What if your theory is incorrect and the scientific evidence is right? Should we abandon veganism? " I do think that if this is not God's intended diet for man, then I would absolutely abandon vegansim. I would do such because if the vegan diet was found to be deficient then it would be defying the laws of God and nature. However, I will not abandon the vegan diet because I think it is God's intended diet and to eat vegan is to follow the laws of nature. But, then it would still be an ethical issue, not as much as a nutritional one in that instance. There would still be the issue of animal abuse and slaughter, which are sins in the eyes of God. So perhaps if I found vegansim to be deficient nutrionally in its natural state, I would revert back to some form of lacto-vegetarian, but only drink milk from certain cows, raised, respected, and loved in certain ways. However, this diet still has so many flaws and ethical problems associated with it. So again, I would be brought back to veganism; following God's plan and God's diet. Also, Daywalker made some great points. He said, "The average vegan diet is far from being "natural"." He went on to speak about the altered food substances most vegans eat, from soy ice creams to veggie dogs, to puddings. I think that notion brings us back to the point that we should all be striving to eat the highest quality foods possible. Like most vegans who don't eat 100% raw foods, I myself need to strive to get to that goal or close to it. We should all strive to incorporate a greater amount of raw foods into our diets. Daywalker your point that the current vegan diet eaten by many today is not totally "natural" does not fall on deaf ears. Your point is well taken. However, although most don't eat foods totally natural, I think the fact that the diet can sustain a human being in its natural state is the key point. Also, you are right about certain plants losing their nutritional value over time. This has been rapidly occuring over the last 100 years, as fruits and vegetables have been hybridized, genetically modified, and altered to no end. Not only have fruits lost nutrional value with each successive generation, but many people old enough to recall the taste of fruits in previous years claim that they have also lost taste. The only way around this seems to be to not buy genetically modified organisms (GMO's) and search for organic, heirloom varieties. They are harder to find and probably cost a little more, but are worth it in the end. Lastly, we all can only do our best to live vegan and healthy in today's world. We cannot divorce ourselves from this world, this society, and this life so we must make consolations. For example, allthough we cannot always buy organic, we should still remember we are at least buying some sort of fruit, rather than some sugar sweet. We live in a very "unnatural" world today, but the vegan diet still stands out among the rest as the most "natural." It is the most natural diet and that is why I will continue to follow it.

"on the one hand you have religious zealots preaching that you will go to hell if you have sex before marriage, and on the other there are thousands of girls dropping out of school to have kids as no one will have an abortion." Jonathan, I also noticed you seem to be advocating the act of abortion here. I also find it very ironic when vegans/vegetarians argue that all life should be respected and held sacred, as a means to defend the rights of animals, but then those same individuals argue for abortion of human life. Is this the position you are advocating? How can we defend the rights of animals, but then say it is alright to kill humans? We constantly say we must protect the weakest and most defenseless of life (such as those in factory farms and slaughterhouses), but what about those human souls that have not had the right to life. There are many hurdles the vegetarian movement must cross if more people are to embrace the principles of the movement, but if we argue to stop killing animals but say it is alright to kill humans in the form of abortion, why would anyone want to embrace a movement with people who have such a philosophy?

First of all, let me apologize for stating that the beginning of the straight-edge movement was in the '90's, way back when this forum first began. It definitely started in the 1980's and really began to take off in the late 80's and stayed pretty big in the hardcore scene through the first half of the '90's. Ray Cappo and his band Youth of Today were the ones who most people associate with strengthening and growing the straightedge movement. Second, in all due respect Jonathan, you seem to speak alot of nonsensical thoughts here. Alchohol is NOT good for the human body. It is a poison plain and simple. Immediately when the substance is taken in, the body goes through a strict and deliberate process of trying to eliminate it from the organism, just like any other poison. Also, you have said more than once that alcohol use only affects the person drinking it. But for any of us who have had families torn apart because of alcohol or have had someone injured or killed by a drunk-driver, we would vehementely disagree with the notion that it is a victimless offense. Alcohol consumption has far reaching affects. I know that you based your argument on moderation. But I just don't believe in the moderation principle. Those same doctors and "health experts" who advocate 1 or 2 drinks a day also advocate meat and dairy and eggs in moderation. You claim America is mostly a society of extremes, which for the most part is true. However, at least when someone is extreme to one side or the other they are truly passionate about what they believe and are fully engrossed in its principles. Taking the middle ground, or moderation ground seems like the easy way out. I don't support the notion of whatever you want to do is alright. A little of this, a little of that, or moderation - that never got anybody anywhere. Third, most of us include health reasons as one of the primary reasons we are vegan. So what does it say about us if we eat clean foods and the like, but then say it is alright to drink alcohol everyday in small amounts? It is ironic how some vegans will argue all about eating organic foods free from even trace amounts of pesticides, in the attempt to avoid poisons at all costs, but then will embrace the notion of 1 or 2 alcholic drinks a day, a known poision, as healthy. This is a huge hyposcrisy.

This is an interesting thread for me, because my brother and I, (we are both vegan) were discussing the whole B12 issue. I think just like all vitamins it is essential for human health. However, I think the issue has been overemphasized in the vegan community and was mainly just propagated by people who were looking for things to find "wrong" or "unnatural" about the vegan diet. Those same people would say that B12 can't be found directly in plant foods, so for vegans the vitamin would have to be supplemented...so how natural is the vegan diet if those following it have to by synthetic supplements to maintain health? (that is the connection people looking to dispell the vegan diet make time and time again) Therefore, I feel that when people claim B12 absolutely must be supplemented, they are doing a disservice to the vegan diet. If our diet cannot be sustained simply by eating what God has provided in nature, without any refinement by human hands, that it cannot be man's intended diet. Otherwise we'd be defying the laws on nature. I definitely don't think that we are defying the laws of nature living this diet. I think we are truly eating man's intended diet and nature, in its natural state will sustain us. Some studies I have seen state exactly as DayWalker said in his posting, an adequete B12 amount can be found simply by eating unwashed, organic fruits and vegetables. (And I thought I was the only one who has ever heard that concept.) I have an organic garden at my house and I get much satisfication and nourishment just by trying to eat some of the foods raw, right of the vine. Besides, thoroughly washing foods starts to take away some of the nutrients off the skin as you start to "exfoliate" the fruit or vegetable. I have also heard that the amount of B12 we require in our diets is so minimal. For many of us who haven't been vegan our entire lives, we are still with more than enough of the vitamin in our bodies from our days of consuming animal products. I have read that B12 is stored in the body for long periods of time and that further makes the amount we need to ingest even more minimal. Think about it - if this vegan diet is so natural and so intended for us by the Creator himself, than why wouldn't we be able to find everything we need directly in nature?!!! Futhermore, B12 is fortified in so many of the vegan food today, soymilk and the like, that it is even less of an issue. But even so, I for one, will continue to believe that adequete B12 intake can be maintained by eating foods straight off the vine, right in nature itself!

Do you guys get Tom's of Maine products out there on the west coast? They are fully vegan and never tested on animals. The shaving cream is great...feels good, works good, makes the skin feel good, and smells nice. If you can't find it in stores out there, check their website. www.tomsofmaine.com

I always get annoyed when people cite studies proclaiming the benefits of red wine. If you read further into it, the part of the wine that makes it "healthy" is just the nutrients that are released from the grapes. The same effect can be achieved, but more efficiently by drinking a glass of grape juice. The way I see it, not consuming intoxicants is not about labeling yourself straight-edge, but it is rather about respecting this God given body. Anyway you slice it, alcohol is poison. It has all the characteristics of poison...concentrated doses in large amounts will kill and its consumption can affect motor skills and the nervous sytem. I won't consume alcohol because it is poison for the body. About prescription or over-the-counter drugs, I won't consume them either. They most certainly do more harm than good. Instead of treating the cause and identifying what caused the sickness, the drugs only try to fix the sympotoms. This has lead me to embrace naturopathic medicine and I am striving to become one. The straight-edge movement is about keeping the mind clear, the body clean, and the soul pure. It is most certainly a philosophy we all can embrace!

I consider myself straight-edge by definition. No drinking, no smoking, no drugs, no illicit sex. I was first exposed to the concept at the age of 14 when my brother told me about it. At that age when alot of other kids were starting to "experiment" with intoxicants and the like to fit in, we simply had no interest in it. In some ways we probably felt like outsiders. But then discovering that there was a youth movement formed in the early to mid 90's called "Sraight-Edge" gave us a whole new form of motivation to keep our bodies clean. Soon enough my brother discovered the band Youth of Today. Lead by Ray Cappo, who is from Connecticut (my state), they started the whole movement. As Ray Cappo started to also become well-versed in eastern philosophies and spirituality, vegetarianism also became an unofficial part of the movement. While not a "requirement," many straight-edge kids adopted this straight-edge vegan diet because it fit in with the whole lifestyle and also the idea of keeping the body clean and pure. Incendentally, Ray Cappo's vegetarianism was bolstered by his interest in Krisna Conciousness...(I actually have a close friend who was a krisna monk for a while), his interests expanded greatly into the world of spirituality. While the ever changing hardcore scene fluctuates as usual, the spirit of the straight-ege movement is still there in many people. From the people in their early 30's who first embraced the movement then, to the teenage kid today who rejects the current societal embracement of teenage intoxication as a normal occurrence and right of passage...the straight-edge message is still strong. For those who are confused. Straight-edge is not a club or organization, so there are no "requirements." But it is a label that can hold a group of people together who stand for the same beliefs and simply for the individual who won't make compromises on his convictions. The rejection of drugs, alcohol, illicit sex, and for most meat-eating makes so much sense. I once viewed it almost as a sign of rebelliousness from the mainstream, but today I am the same way. Although I never really X'ed up (putting X's on your hands to mark that you are straight-edge), although my brother and friends often did, I still call myself straight-edge if someone asks me. It is so healthy for the body and shows that you stand up for what you believe in! Straight-edge vegan for life...no compromise!!!

Welcome to the site. You are very new but yet you are already an inspiration to so many! So many people have so many misconceptions about raising children vegan and going through a pregnancy as a vegan. But you, your wife, and your family are living proof that veganism is the most natural diet for the human species...just as God intended. Thanks for joining the site and more importantly thank you for you and your family in being living examples of how great and natural a vegan diet is!

As a person who is totally interested in alternative medicine, as I hope to become a naturopathic doctor, this news is especially troubling. I have heard in the past how the evil FDA was hoping to regulate herbs and all natural medicines, because the huge drug companies were becoming envious of the fact that they could not profit off of natural medicines, because they were not classified as a drug. There are all sorts of weird nuiansces regarding federal regulation of natural medicine already. Anyone selling or proclaiming that a natural medicine can treat or cure a disease cannot do so, because then they must call it a drug, and a drug must be regulated. WIth every statement concerning natural treatments, they must include a disclaimer. It is all about the money, and it seems like this is just another step for the drug companies to make people sicker, while making their wallets all that much more sicker by exploiting treatments that should be easy to get. They should stick to regulating their hazardous poisons they call prescription drugs and stop worrying about profiting off of natural medicines.

I am glad to hear that you know what God's ideal is for man's diet, as written in the Bible. It is very tragic that many so called spiritual, religious people cannot make the link between Chrisitianity and vegetarianism, and the same with other religions. All religions demand compassion towards all life, people just misinterpret how far that compassion shall go. My vegetarianism was taken to a whole new level once I was able to make the relation between my diet and my spirituality.

Rob, what do you mean you almost gave up on this site? I was very surprised to hear that. Thank God you never did because this forum definitely is an inspiration to many current and prospective vegans, bodybuilders and non-bodybuilders! I hope now you can see that you made the right choice in sticking to it! P.S. Are they airing your PETA commercial anywhere? In the northeast? Out here in Connecticut I haven't seen a PETA commercial on TV ever, except for the SuperBowl one I think. The day that I see you or any other vegan speaking on behalf of the vegan movement on television will be a great, great day! Soon enough!

Hey everyone! It is nice to know that some others wonder about your whereabouts when you haven't posted in a while. Yeah, I am not really sure why I have been so slow to post on the new site. I think it is a variety of reasons. This new site really is great and it is amazing to see how much it keeps growing. I have been stopping in on the site to read some postings every week or so, I just haven't posted many myself! I have been busy lately...like pretty much everyone, I am sure. Back in March my fiancee and I bought a house. So since then and still now, I am pretty much working on fixing up the house everyday after coming home from work. On top of that I am finishing up my undergraduate work, to allow me to apply to a naturopathic medicine program in December. My goal is still to become a naturopathic doctor and then help spread the real truth regarding proper, God-intended diet, health, and exercise information and help people to heal themselves through natural medicine. In the meantime, I unfortunately let my workout regimen fall to the wayside after training hard in the winter. The work, the house, the school, it all started to add up and I put my exercise on the side burner. However, you can bet that once I move into the new house in late August, I will be training harder than ever! Anyway, there's my little update. Rob, congratulations on winning that bodybuilding event...it was great to see! To everyone else keep, this site going great as one of the most important features of being vegan is to show people just how strong and robust a person can and will become when switching to a plant-based diet. We all need to show people what REAL health and fitness is, and this forum allows us to do just that! I will be sure to check back in more often. Vegan Power for Life!