el_flaco

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned that 6'3 and 200lbs isn't bad going. What kind of weights do you lift? Why is your diet restricted?

Lots of training talk and advice though, which is what I look for in a vegan fitness forum. The "bodybuilding and strength training" forum here is painfully quiet. It seems to me that on both forums the guys who get most involved in the arguing and bickering are the ones contributing the least to the fitness aspect of the forum. Certainly two of the guys here complaining about VF did nothing but spoil for arguments during their time there.

There's no need for that. It's a pretty normal deadlift style. Worth tweaking a few things to see if it works for him but it's in no way "horrible". Is there something in "Starting Strength" that encourages people to critique form in this fashion? Does Rippetoe write like an arsehole? How you can comment on flexibility after seeing that video is beyond me. He makes no attempt to adopt a position that taxes his flexibility.

Where in Scotland are you from man? I'm from Kirkcaldy originally, down in London these days though.

Try pushing your knees forward over the bar as that last motion before you start the lift. This will drop your hips a bit and bring them closer to the bar. You might find your chest naturally comes up a bit when you do this. Although it does look like the bar is a bit far away from you in the start position, I'd leave messing with it until you try the above.

I've PM'd the admins. Part of me suspects you've just been banned though.

I knew there had to be a reason the guys on VF are so much stronger than the guys here

What do you mean you don't trust them? You are doubting the fact that they got big? The fact that they are vegan? Personally I don't believe that you are asking questions that you want honest answers to. I simply don't trust any body builder.

That's not the point.Of course it is. Your worry is that plant proteins are insufficient to support your mighty weightlifting efforts. Empirical evidence to the contrary counts for nothing? If your worry was that animal protein was insufficient finding large muscular animal abusers would put that worry to rest. It's the same here. Sadly you are. Someone has told you that PER is important, you have bought that. Now you are on here asking for plant protein sources that rival animal sources in terms of PER even though a simple glance at the highest ranking proteins by PER would indicate they are from animal sources. When offered the opinion that PER is not important, you ignore that as not being part of your "Great Protein Debate". In your intro you claimed to be a college professor. An educated man. If that is true I cannot believe that the disingenuous way you are attempting to frame this "Great Protein Debate" is accidental. I'd guess you are just looking to have some dilettante fun trolling the vegans.

This focus on individual protein sources is a complete waste of time. From wikipedia regarding measuring protein quality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score As you said in your intro, you'll be consuming a fairly large amount of calories to gain weight. Assuming a relatively varied diet, you will not be deficient in any individual protein.

I believe that your focus on your diet is misplaced. By your own admission you only recently picked up a copy of Starting Strength and that in six years weight training prior to that you believed that 145lb squats and 155lb deadlifts were beyond you. This would suggest that it was poor quality training that was holding you back. A 155lb deadlift wouldn't place you in the top 15 vegan women on the strength table in my sig. As a 6'1 male, how could you expect to gain muscle with that training stimulus? Why attribute your improved results now to your cheese, egg and milk diet rather than your change in training technique?

Do you really need to ask "if" it is possible to gain muscle without eggs, whole milk and cheese pizzas? The question seems to imply that no-one has ever managed to do it, that it is still only a theoretical possibility. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/01/anti-soya-brigade-ignore-scaremongering The anti-soy stuff is a load of bollocks. Even t-nation retracted its previously anti-soy stance. In my experience most self-proclaimed hard-gainers have lifting technique that prevents them from moving heavy weights. If the attention they put on their diet and supplementation was directed into their performance in the gym they'd see better results.

This isn't appropriate advice on a vegan site. I suggest you remove it.

Ah sorry, I missed the previous discussion. I only check in from time to time. Personally I don't see any upside in using a projected max. Their accuracy varies so much from person to person. Plus I enjoy maxing out

Solid lifting man, but those projections are just estimates, they shouldn't be used on the table. There are all kinds of reasons why someone might fall well short of their projected 1rm.

I really think you should try to get some sleep. Lack of sleep coupled with the delusional* and paranoid** behaviour outlined above sounds quite worrying to me. I think it's a shame that you've taken what should be a straightforward and positive message, how to build muscle on a vegan diet, and coated it in this snake oil insanity. Mathematical formulae for success, scamming flights and supplements and befriending celebrities * delusional: ** paranoid:

Fixed.

Another disagreement for us, because I thought that was a terrible advert for women's MMA. Carano was flat out shocking. It gives me no pleasure to say that as one of my good friend's girlfriend has lost to Carano and I know how solid a fighter she is (my friend's girl that is). But that fight was ropey anyway, Carano missed weight by miles, refused to cut anymore and this was with her opponent coming up in weight for the fight Ah well, nothing new for Carano there... From the off Carano wasn't in the stand up. Looked like she'd never had a punch travel in her direction before. Then inexplicably Santos took her down. Well I say took her down, more placed her on top in full mount. Then Carano decided mount wasn't such a great place, she'd be better stood up where she had a clear disadvantage. Carano nearly giving up the heel hook was pretty poor too. Three minutes in both fighters were gassed, this was a 5x5 title fight. I'll admit it was a fast paced fight, but to be gassed out in the first is unacceptable to me.

Lol, I walked away from the show during that series too. Just not interested in watching that kind of behaviour, not even Kimbo can tempt me back. To be honest the format was getting old for me anyway. It took me a while, but I eventually realise the TUF guys weren't very good or very interesting. It bothers me a bit that they get so much post-TUF exposure.

Nah no offense taken, just a bit of forum rough and tumble. I think there's an argument to say that handing Brock the first Mir fight was no favour. Compare Brock's UFC debut with Crocop for example, and think about where they were in their respective careers. Who was more in need of a gentle opener? Brock was getting paid a lot more than established fighters, but as I say, the issue is the low pay of the other fighters imo. Dana loves to talk about how on a single UFC card you can have so many great matchups while a top boxing event might have one superfight and a poor undercard. He neglects to mention that the entire fighter budget for that card doesn't come to what the boxer will earn. To me Brock poses the problem that heavyweight mma has to answer, that's why I enjoy seeing him fight (maybe "enjoy" is too strong a word). If we are going to pretend that the bottom game is viable at heavyweight we need to match it up with a dominant wrestler at the top of the weight scale. I think you are overstating the level of sportsmanship in mma vs other sports. Off the top of my head, I don't remember much love between Marcus Davis and Dan Hardy recently, even after the fight. Junie Browning hasn't exactly covered himself with glory. Babalu holding onto the choke for too long, Henderson claiming the "late" punch on Bisping was to shut his mouth. Didn't Phil Baroni punch a ref?

I know you can't. I think I can see why this thread is mainly composed of posts from yourself with no responses. You might want to treat other posters with a bit more respect. People have spent a long time building a reputation of sportsmanship and camaraderie on this forum, it's disappointing to see you display this negative persona. It's not something a lot of us want to be associated with. You have posted saying Brock isn't respectful enough, I get that. I'll touch on it in a minute. But you also posted complaining about his weight advantage and the opportunities afforded to him. I was pointing out that those complaints seem misdirected. I happen to agree with him regarding pay in the UFC. The issue for me isn't how much Brock makes, but how little the other fighters get. This is a direct result of UFC anti-competition practice. They are the only game in town, so they pay peanuts. Compare the UFC fighters to that of the top boxers. I have a friend who fought for the UFC when they came to the UK, he got paid less than a small-hall boxer in the UK. I don't think that a fighter has to represent the UFC in any way. I want to know who the best fighters are. I want to see them fight each other. I couldn't give an arse whether they don the company tie, wear a smile and spout the corporate line. Maybe we have a difference in outlook there. Brock doesn't owe anybody a favour. UFC elevated him to main event and title status for money and to advance their profile, not because Dana and Brock are golfing buddies. As for flipping off the fans, if you go along to view a sportsman and hurl abuse at him, don't run crying to your mother when he dishes some back. I see this all the time with soccer fans when a footballer has the temerity to reply to their chants with a gesture. We want our streams of abuse to flow in one direction.

I didn't realise you were even making arguments. What exactly is it you think you are arguing for? Brock to come in lighter next fight? Brock to refuse opportunities that are given him? If you have a problem with the way he advanced to the title then your problem is with Dana and the UFC, not with Brock. There isn't a fighter in the world who would turn down a title shot. Especially one they believe they can win. The fact that he has won the title and humiliated your "more skilled" fighter shows that those who decided to fast-track him were correct. The quality in the UFC heavyweight division is terrible. Ah, now I understand. Thank you for the lesson in weight categories But ideally, what is it you would like big bad Brock to do? What can he do to make you happy? Not use his weight advantage? Let your more skilled fighter up instead of sitting on top of him? And I can think of many other times where this didn't happen. Witness model professional Marvin Hagler's treatment in London. Who said anything about being a fan of Brock?

I'm coming round to your way of thinking. It's a shame that the best martial artist should be decided by something as uncouth as fighting. We should have a system where periodically martial artists jump about to demonstrate they have learned the moves, and some kind of master can award them a coloured belt. That way we will know who is the most skilled. Wasn't the Mir loss Brock's second mma fight? Kneebars and heel hooks were typical ways the inexperienced martial artists got nailed early on in the UFC. Not from a lack of technique, but from over-committing. In a year and a half Brock has tightened up his game to the point where someone who could expose that weakness last year is completely dominated in the return match. You can disagree with Brock's past-fight antics if you like, but the Mir nuthugging on this thread makes you look ridiculous. The skill in mma is in winning. I also don't understand why you are complaining about someone's size in a weight-limited category

I think you are getting your VBBs mixed up... Pete runs http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/main.htm Agreed with the loyalty point though, I'll pimp myself wherever I can get an audience

You must have missed the event. Mir got his ass beat. There have been lots of fights where guys refuse to hug up afterwards. Emotions run high and can take a while to subside. It doesn't bother me at all. I'm no fan of the breaks given to Lesnar but you can hardly hold that against him. It's up to your "experienced and skilled" fighters to prove he wasn't worth the money and opportunity. Right now they aren't doing that.