el_flaco

I wanna gain some strength so I am looking for help with that as well.

Man you look pretty damn strong already.

What kind of weights are you lifting at the moment?

I still think this is the pinnacle of beautiful squatting.

 

 

May not be rock-bottom, but man, Coan glides like he's on rails whether he's squatting 60 or 600 lbs.

Great vid. When asked how it felt to squat 900lbs, Coan said "same as 500lbs, but better concentration".

xPhilx - that's definitely one of the lightest squats I've seen posted on the internet. Nice find.

I use it as a backoff exercise to work my joints in my shoulders nothing to build mass more to prevent injuries.

I think that exercise is more likely to cause injury.

give me one moral reason AGAINST eating the eggs of truly freerange chickens

Whether or not it is morally correct doesn't change the fact that it isn't vegan.

I did have a little spot when I hit 300, 315 and 325. 275 was with no spot but when I get over 300 I want to make sure I'm not crushed so I keep a spotter around.

Nothing wrong with having a spotter, it only invalidates the lift if he touches the bar.

I started going to the gym at 15. My gym had two benches, one had a bar weighing 145lb and a sign saying "if you can't bench this use the other bench, don't take the plates off". Me and my training partner didn't want to appear weak so getting 3 sets of 10 with that was the first target, got that within a couple of weeks.

I am trying to pinch my shoulders back - as stated above. Can you explain to me what you mean by driving your knees forward?

I don't think it's a shoulder move, it's more a shifting of the weight onto the heels and dropping the ass backwards.

Here's the initial setup, which doesn't look so bad to me:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/spug_myers/soo_dead1.jpg

Then you rock backwards, leaving you in this position:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/spug_myers/soo_dead2.jpg

The above is the position I don't like. To me you are no longer in a position to make the bar move upwards. The bar is so far in front of you, when you drive with the legs the distance from the bar to your hips makes moving the bar at (at least) the same rate as your hips almost impossible. It's more likely your legs will extend but the bar will remain on the ground. Which is what is happening here:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/spug_myers/soo_dead3.jpg

The cue to "drive the knees forward" is just to drop the hips a little from the first position. If you just pushed the knees forward a little from that position I think it'd be a pretty good starting point. I think it's a more effective mental cue than thinking about dropping the hips, as thinking about that leads you into a position like second frame.

I'd also bring the bar a little closer to you during setup, maybe that's a reason it's hitting your shins.

Setup looks strange to me. You look ok, then you rock backwards.

Are you intentionally trying to bring your shoulders backwards? I did this for a while and it messed me up off the floor. Once I lengthened my spine, kept the shoulders over the bar and drove the knees forward to initiate the lift I started getting a good drive off the floor.

£1 is a bargain!

It's not just the coaching, as not all gyms will look to coach you. A couple of other things:

You'll have access to better equipment.

Gyms can be a really nice place to hang out, especially once you meet a few people. That helps keep you motivated.

You see people lifting heavier weights, which helps get rid of some of the mystique (the internet has helped with that though, you can see massive weights shifted on youtube).

If you're doing anything really stupid, someone will probably question it

Ah bawsacks. I learned how to do deadlifts watching the Starting Strength DVD, says to get your grip before dropping shins (which is what I meant), and not to drop your hips while doing so. This is why I assumed it was a flexibility problem, because i couldn't grip the bar without squatting down a wee bit (or completely arching my back).

Ah I get what you mean, I've seen clips where he goes through that setup. It's not bad advice, I think Rippetoe is pretty astute, but it's just his way of arriving at a decent starting position for the deadlift. If the bar is lower feel free to bend your knees or arch your back a bit to reach it.

Is the DVD good?

You might be surprised by the gyms. I've trained in uni gyms, commercial chains (Bannatyes, Fitness First), council-run gyms, converted industrial units and I'm currently training in what I reckon has to be the poshest gym in London. I've managed to get a decent deadlift workout in all of them, as long as they have a free weights section.

I'd have a look. Once you nail the technique on deadlift you'll be needing some pretty heavy weights, it's a big exercise. Catering for that in your house is going to get expensive pretty quickly.

My hip flexibility is quite bad, I need the bar higher otherwise I can't grip the bar without either rounding my back, lowering my hips or dropping my shins to the bar prematurely. The lowest peg on my power rack is still to high (bar sits just below my knees).

What do you mean by "dropping my shins to the bar prematurely"?

Lowering the hips doesn't sound like such a bad idea either. Are you sure this is a flexibility issue?

Is there no gym you can go to? I'm always sceptical of people trying to make progress in their house. I'm not saying it's impossible, but in my experience it is rare.

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_avi

 

I don't think he considers himself a bber but the guy is Huge/ pretty lean and looks great

Yeah I've heard Avi say he considers himself a powerlifter and isn't comfortable with bodybuilding.

He's got a great physique, but does only weigh in at 90kg. Must be hollow

Is there video anywhere online of Ed Coan pulling 901 @220lbs? I think only 11 guys have pulled more since and they all weighed 268lbs and over.

Ask and it shall be given thee:

He had a decent conventional pull on him too, this is from his 2400lb total:

I suppose it begs the question, if a man builds muscles in the woods where there's no one to see them, is he really bodybuilding...

I only wish there had been a clip of Konstantinov's deadlift from the side - if you want to see crazy form with an arched lower and rounded upper back that makes everyone scream "His form is terrible!", he's the one to watch.

Ask and it shall be given thee

Hey man, good to see another Scottish vegan (although I'm exiled down South these days though).

I'd be tempted to stick mainly to chinups rather than pullups at the moment as you're getting a much better working set of them. In time the pullup strength will come.

I consider a "bodybuilder" to be someone who has already competed on stage....many would not agree with me...but as a competitive bodybuilder, I have my reasons for that type of labeling......

I'm not sure what you mean by "having reasons" for those labels, other than to make it a more exclusive group

I think the terms "competitive bodybuilder" and "recreational bodybuilder" are indeed what you are looking for.

There are many people out there who want to build their body for aesthetic reasons but (understandably imo) have no interest in competitive bodybuilding. To refuse to call them bodybuilders seems churlish to me.

Regarding big vegan athletes in general, Jonathan who posts on here and more regularly on VF was 6'8, 280lbs+ at one point.

I am also interested as to why that is awful technique.

To my naive eyes it appears beautiful.

Great pic

Jardine is headlining next UFC against Rampage Jackson I think.

Just a wee point as I fear I'm beginning to sound like a form fascist. In powerlifting terms at least, squatting until your hamstrings are parallel with the ground isn't "squatting to parallel". In powerlifting, the crease of the hip must drop beneath the top of the knee. That will be substantially lower for most people, especially if you have big legs.

That's not to say there's anything wrong with squatting to "hamstring parallel", depends what your aims are.

think outside the box a little and focus on more than just protein.

My experience with bodybuilders is that they are obsessed with all aspects of diet.

In fact one of the few things they agree upon is that you need sufficient protein. That could be why it is one of the first pieces of advice given to wannabe bodybuilders. Because it isn't in dispute.

When I moved to AL for the first month and a half I lived in the "hood" and we were only white people for blocks. I would go outside all pumped without my shirt on just to let people know what was up. Never had any problems. Also would take weights outside and lift in the front yard to yet once again make a point.

The non-whites are probably just waiting for you to get sloppy. Cheat on your diet. Gain a few pounds.

Then they will pounce.

I still have to disagree. It's beneficial to building overall strength simply to stand in one place with a heavy bar draped over your shoulders without any movement, so even though L&G may have used a short range of motion, I don't think that means it doesn't have benefits.

I think you're making an argument where none exists. Read my posts, all I've said is that personally, I wouldn't do them. I've never said no benefit, I've said not enough to merit them. If I'm going to do partial ROM, I'll go for a larger ROM than L&G. Maybe go with his workout until the half squats. Once you've half-squatted with 100lbs more than you can handle, what's to be accomplished by the partials?

We know we're going to take some heat and we know we'll be criticized.

Really

I doubt there is anyone on this or any other vegan board hoping that vegans competing in bodybuilding (or in sport) fail. Any "heat" on this thread came from comments like these, which I guess were viewed as being economical with the truth:

He was too busy squatting like 560 pounds

Just squatted 560, throw some plates on it;

L&G and I are the only people here to have managed 500+ lb. full squats to parallel

Bastard

Well, speaking as the only man to total over 1400lbs here...

Strong guys do all kinds of stupid things. If you take any worthless exercise, dodgy supplement or wacky diet from the last 30 years, I guarantee you you will find strong guys who did that. I used to neck vanadyl sulphate and do heavy wide-grip shrugs to widen the shoulders, holding onto the plates rather than the bar.

Nobody is saying partial squats will prevent you squatting heavy, or even that they don't help. I just think done with the ROM shown they aren't worth the effort (and certainly not worth the video, or the initial braggadocio in the workout reports). This is no knock at all against L&G, I knew a strongman competitor back in the 90s (back before it got trendy ) who did partial squats very similarly.

There's also an associated injury risk. Am I right in thinking the only guys who have managed a 500+ lb full squat in the past can't currently achieve this feat? Perhaps they engaged in some sub-optimal training practices which affected their longevity?

Robert - I think there's a huge difference between dumbell press with some assistance through the sticking point and these short-range squats. These squats go nowhere near any kind of sticking point. No-one is arguing against all partial ROM or assisted reps here.

the boy has some legs on him

That is true.

I think it's always good to question training practice, keeping in mind that it isn't a personal attack. Sometimes we get a bit too precious about our form or our lifts. They're just things we do to get bigger and stronger.

Personally I wouldn't do them, too much hassle loading up the bar, too much effort without much reward. Plus L&G has a high bar squat position (like myself). I don't find that supporting weight in that position is tough. Guys who go low-bar which forces the torso forward and requires a bit more active work to maintain that position benefit more from walkouts and partials.

So it will look funny but it's what I can do right now and even with only 95 my back "didn't feel right" as if it was on the brink of potential slipping (my vertebra's rotate sometimes which is incredibly painful and immobilizing). I write this now so I don't have to write it later when asked why I'm only lifting 95lbs.

Have you read anything by Stuart McGill on lower back problems?

I have his "Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance" book on my desk just now. I think he also has a book called "Lower Back Disorders". He's got some interesting thoughts on rehab from injury and on lifting safe, they make sense to me.

To be honest I wouldn't really recommend the book, it takes too long to get to practical advice for me (maybe I'm just impatient), but have a search about on the internet for some articles by him.

Actually did this myself, this is his website: http://www.backfitpro.com/

And an interview on t-nation: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/back_to_mcgill