ouch my neck

[toby]

Hey guys,

 

I haven't been training for so long. I had this weird tingling sensation on my lower back and hamstrings when I bend my neck back. Osteopath didn't help, so I went to see a GP. He told me not to train and referred me to the neurosurgeon. The appointment is still a month away.

 

I have a look at the C/T Scan and it sounds pretty fuct:

 

"Multi-level cervical spondylosis.

Disc Bulge at C3-C4 and C4-C5 levels.

Focal posterior central disc protrusion at C5-C6 level impinging the thecal sac and causing spinal canal stenosis".

 

Now the sensation has gone. I really want to start lifting again, but do you think it is too risky?

 

Sick of being skinny 

[Vegan Joe]

Before you make another move I sugest that what is most important for you is abdominal and back exercises that don't put much strain on your spinal column. Bicycle maneuvers, traditional crunches, pelvic tilts, and supermans, would be the best place to start and stay until your core is hela strong. BB bench presses would be good also.

If they're telling you that you have bulging disc. then I wouldn't liftany thing heavy for now that puts pressure on your column. How is your posture are your standing and sitting straight avoiding couches and laying down to watch TV and things would be the best for now until those discs have reformed. Stick with the gut work untill you have a six pack on top of your six pack.

You might want to think about investing in something like this:

 

http://backworks.com/images/Inversion%20Table

 

 

PS Just for "shits and giggles" Look into your calcium absorbtion rate there are some tests and some vit that you can take to increase this. Vit D being one, Boron another. Think it might be something to ask your doctor about, get the test don't let him talk around it. See what the tests say.

 

A total calcium level is often measured as part of health screening. It is included in the Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP) and the Basic Metabolic Panel (BMP) groups of tests that are performed together to diagnose or monitor a variety of conditions. When an abnormal total calcium result is obtained, it is viewed as an indicator or some kind of underlying problem. To help diagnose the underlying problem, additional tests are often done to measure ionized calcium, urine calcium, phosphorous, magnesium, vitamin D, and parathyroid hormone (PTH). PTH and vitamin D are responsible for maintaining calcium concentrations in the blood within a narrow range of values.

 

Measuring calcium and PTH together can help determine whether the parathyroid gland is functioning normally. Measuring urine calcium can help determine whether the kidneys are excreting the proper amount of calcium, and testing for vitamin D, phosphorus, and/or magnesium can help determine whether other deficiencies or excesses exist. Frequently the balance among these different substances, and the changes in them, are just as important as the concentrations.

 

Calcium can be used as a diagnostic test if you go to your doctor with symptoms that suggest:

[Marcina]

Hey guys,

 

I haven't been training for so long. I had this weird tingling sensation on my lower back and hamstrings when I bend my neck back. Osteopath didn't help, so I went to see a GP. He told me not to train and referred me to the neurosurgeon. The appointment is still a month away.

 

I have a look at the C/T Scan and it sounds pretty fuct:

 

"Multi-level cervical spondylosis.

Disc Bulge at C3-C4 and C4-C5 levels.

Focal posterior central disc protrusion at C5-C6 level impinging the thecal sac and causing spinal canal stenosis".

 

Now the sensation has gone. I really want to start lifting again, but do you think it is too risky?

 

Sick of being skinny 

 

If your doctor told you not to train, then you shouldn't train. Your spine is something you shouldn't screw around with.

Let me explain to you what's wrong with your back: It's fucked. Focus on getting yourself healed up. Don't start exercising without the O.K from your doctor. You might even need to do some rehab exercises.

[Vegan Joe]

These are rehab exercises for the spine, as little pressure is exerted because the spine is horizontal.

 

 

Bicycle maneuvers, traditional crunches, pelvic tilts, and supermans

[vivalasvegans]

If you're having issues with your spine, I suggest you listen to professional health care providers who can diagnose you in person and suggest rehab exersises for your injury, not strangers from the internets who can quote wikipedia. Hope you feel better soon and get back to training.

[toby]

Thanks.

The reason why I ask is, the GP told me not to do anything just in case . Osteopath said I can still work out as long as it doesn't hurt.

 

I was thinking it is only related to my neck.

 

Will get the answer from the specialist in a month.

[Vegan Joe]

not strangers from the internets who can quote wikipedia.

Or strangers from the internets who can read wikipedia without understand what it says.

[VeganEssentials]

I feel for you - I've had some neck problems that I suspect are related to my disc issues, but I've avoided getting diagnosed because I only tweak it every few months, and it's usually better within a few days.

 

As you'll find, most people in the medical community will say that you should stop training. According to my ortho, I should have given lifting up completely about 4 years back. Of course, when I did take breaks, it made my back issues worse, and in time, I'd have been one of those people who complains about pain everyday and would have probably ended up on painkillers to dull it. You CAN rehab many different spine and disc issues with proper training, but it definitely needs to be done properly and intelligently. I'd suggest maybe having a chiro take a look to see if they can help with alignment that might alleviate pain (it was always a short-term thing for me, but when I was really hurting, a few days of feeling better was greater than being in constant pain), see someone in sports medicine and physical therapy who knows their stuff, and try their approaches for a bit. Unfortunately, general practitioners and non-sports therapists typically tell people to abandon physical activity, which in the end, typically makes things worse (how is allowing the supporting musculature to atrophy going to be beneficial to feeling better? ), so always seek people who say that they think that they can help you, rather than people who are always quick to say that you need to give up what you're doing.

 

For all the people in sports who have come back from crippling injury, I believe that almost everyone can be rehabbed properly over time. It's too bad that most physicians are as terribly misinformed about resistance training's benefits as they are nutrition and diet.

 

Best of luck in healing up!

[Marcina]

If you're having issues with your spine, I suggest you listen to professional health care providers who can diagnose you in person and suggest rehab exersises for your injury, not strangers from the internets who can quote wikipedia. Hope you feel better soon and get back to training.

 

 

THANK YOU!!

[toby]

Ha I was just having a bit of a whinge.

 

I was showing my missus how to do a Kettlebell Clean and Press and why it is not safe for people to do it without proper coaching (with a 16KG). She was like: Put it down! Put it down!

 

But I have been riding on my roadbike alot though.

Critical mass tonight \m/

[Vegan Joe]

Ha I was just having a bit of a whinge.

 

I was showing my missus how to do a Kettlebell Clean and Press and why it is not safe for people to do it without proper coaching (with a 16KG). She was like: Put it down! Put it down!

 

But I have been riding on my roadbike alot though.

Critical mass tonight \m/

 

You're going to upset these women here.

Not to mention one can't control her hatred of me, and I don't even know her vs two men (well VE is no doubt a better man than I) who have had to deal with spinal problems. One of mine being diagnosed with Spondylitis, which I have managed to keep at bay for almost 20 years, and another because of contact sports in High School (lacrosse, football) which left me with Spondylolisthesis L5, something that use to give me alot of trouble until I strenghten my core some. I remenber times when I couldn't get up off of the floor for 5 days before I could stand up and would crawl on my hands an knees to the bathroom. Getting in and out of bed was impossible so I slept on the floor. Which has been on my mind lately as I haven't been to the gym in awhile and know that in time i will be reminded that I have that condition. Also I have a crushed spinous process the knuckle that sticks out of your back at each vertebrae, which I got in a fall. You'll notice I don't do much in the way of squats, dead lifts, and overhead presses unless I'm seated. Pain is a good teacher. I wished I'd gotten my information out of Wikipedia. But I got it the hard way.

It will never go away but I can keep it at bay by exercising my core and doing stretching.

 

PS I was hoping you would answer that question about your posture. As holding correct posture while doing anything is of great impotant to you from now on, especially sitting positions which often happen for long periods of time.

[MartinVegartin]

When an orthopaedic surgeon tells you that you have stenosis, spondlylosis, bulging discs, etc. you can probably believe him/her. But it doesn't mean that these are the cause of any pain or tingling. In a study (see below) it was found that 64% of participants, who had never had any back pain, were shown to have abnormalities in the spine that would have made them candidates for surgery. I'm not saying that the abnormalities in your spine are not the cause of your problems, but some or even all might not be the cause. And if they are, a certain exercise just might help you. As its helped me.

 

My sister was diagnosed with spondylolisthesis and sugery was recommended. She asked for physiotherapy instead. After a few months of that she had no pain and can now walk as well as ever. There is just a bit of numbness in one of her big toes.

 

I was told that I have stenosis and a very slight spondylolisthesis in the lumbar spine. Surgery was recommended. I declined. I bought a book called The Mulitifidus Back Pain Solution and did the exercise it recommends - the bird dog. I now have no pain. I am beginning to walk almost normally. I can lie in bed in any position, whereas not long ago lying, sitting and standing were very painful, and my quality of life is almost back to 100%. In the book he recommends doing the bird dog for the purpose of building strength but Stewart McGill recommends doing it for endurance, and says it should be held for about 8 seconds. That's what I do - 8 seconds each side for 15 reps.

 

The multifidus muscles attach to every vertebrae - three or four pairs of muscles to each one. They are the most important spine stabilising muscles and nearly everyone with back pain has some of them weakened or malfunctioning in some way.

 

I recommend getting the multifidus book for the reassurance it can give and the explanations about back pain. Buy it or get it from your library. If they don't have it, ask them to order it.

 

The surgery that was recommended for me is similar to butchery. The laminae of three vertebrae would have been cut off, along with their ligaments and the multifidus muscles that attach to them. That would be about 12 - 20 multifidus muscles. And fusion of those three vertebrae would have been performed.

 

I do weighted dips and weighted chin ups. These put no pressure on the spine. They act like a sort of traction and I think they have helped me. For over a year I was in constant pain and there were days when any movement was agony. I can hardly believe how much I've improved and how I am now free of pain. I am sure that exercising the multifidus muscles is what did it.

 

 

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Study Shows Herniated Discs Seldom Cause Back Pain

 

To get the full story we have to go back about ten years to a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine involving the use of Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) to diagnose back pain. In this study researchers (who were intrigued by the findings of several other studies concerning herniated discs) selected 98 subjects who did not have back pain or any other back related symptoms and sent them to be evaluated by MRI scans. What makes this interesting is that the evaluators were not told that these people did not have back problems.

 

The results were pretty astounding and sent a shock wave through the medical community at that time. What they found was that 64 percent of the test subjects came back with MRIs that showed disc problems that normally would have marked them as prime candidates for surgery… except, of course, for one little problem… and that was that they did not have back problems at all!

 

Over half of the test subjects turned out to have herniated discs, and a large percentage of these people - who did not have any back pain whatsoever - were diagnosed as having such things as spondylolysis, spondylolisthesis and stenosis of the spinal canal. Here are the exact findings:

 

The most common nonintervertebral disk abnormalities in people without symptoms were ....

 

rebuildyourback.com/herniated-disc/pain.php

 

I haven't read everything in that blog but the foregoing makes sense and corresponds with what I've learnt.

 

You might find some useful info in the next link:

 

back-exercises.com/back_exercises.html

 

Again, I haven't read everything on that site.

 

==========

This next study tested (healthy) subjects by using the bird dog exercise. It is called four point kneeling here. They tested people in three positions: 1. With just a leg extended. 2. with a leg and the opposite arm extended. 3. The same as 2 but with more hip flexion. You can read the full study by going to the pubmed site and typing 16896840 into the search box. Then you'll see the link to the full study at the top right of the page that comes up. Click on 'Free full text article'.

 

European Spine Journal. 2007 May;16(5):711-8. Epub 2006 Aug 1.

 

Electromyographic activity of trunk and hip muscles during stabilization exercises in four-point kneeling in healthy volunteers.

 

Stabilization exercises are intended to optimize function of the muscles that are believed to govern trunk stability. Debate exists whether certain muscles are more important than others in optimally performing these exercises. Thirty healthy volunteers were asked to perform three frequently prescribed stabilization exercises in four-point kneeling. The electromyographic activity of different trunk and hip muscles was evaluated. Average amplitudes obtained during the exercises were normalized to the amplitude in maximal voluntary contraction (% MVIC). During all three exercises, the highest relative muscle activity levels (> 20% MVIC) were consistently found in the ipsilateral lumbar multifidus and gluteus maximus. During both the single leg extension (exercise 1) and the leg and arm extension exercise (exercise 2) the contralateral internal oblique and ipsilateral external oblique reached high levels (> 20%MVIC). During exercise 2 there were also high relative activity levels of the ipsilateral lumbar part and the contralateral thoracic part of the iliocostalis lumborum and the contralateral lumbar multifidus. During the leg and arm extension exercise with contralateral hip flexion (exercise 3) there were high relative muscle activity levels of all back muscles, except for the latissimus dorsi muscle. The lowest relative muscle activity levels (< 10% MVIC) were found in the rectus abdominis and the ipsilateral internal oblique during all exercises, and in the contralateral gluteus maximus during exercises 1 and 2. The results of this study show that in exercises in four-point kneeling performed by healthy subjects, hip and trunk muscles seem to work together in a harmonious way. This shows that when relative activity of muscles is measured, both "global and local" muscles function together in order to stabilize the spine.

 

PMID: 16896840 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

----------------------

 

In the full study they also say:

 

'Stabilization exercises are designed to improve function of the muscles that are believed to govern trunk stability and, when these muscles are functioning optimally, they will protect the spine from trauma [10]. Stabilization exercises are often used in clinical practice. The four-point kneeling position provides a relatively low-loaded, non-anti-gravity posture in which good balance can be easily achieved when a neutral spine position is maintained [14, 31].

 

'The single leg extension task in four-point kneeling provides both low joint loading and limited muscular activity, suggesting that this position could be an appropriate choice for persons starting a rehabilitation program for lumbopelvic pain [8]. In four-point kneeling an isolated contraction of the inferior fibres of the internal oblique muscle (IO) can be achieved more often and more consistently compared with a prone position [6, 38]. Haynes [15] suggests that the four-point kneeling exercise involves the whole body and in this way it could prepare the muscular loop and slings for upright bipedal functional tasks.'

 

 

Good luck.