Bill O'Reilly supports a Public Option for health care

[Addai]

i'm an anarchist.

 

america forgives its own celebrities. big deal. turn off the tv.

 

in the real world, was america "forgiving" when it went into iran and installed the shah? has america "forgiven" afghan civilians who are suffering because of the actions of radical extremists trained by the united states? was america "forgiving" when it torched a bunch of iraqi civilians and destroyed historical relics that had been preserved for centuries? even when most intelligence sources said there were no nuclear weapons there?

 

You need to read with context. When I said America was forgiving, I meant the American people. Which was true. I gave many examples that were analogous situation to what we were discussing (actually worse!). Things the government has done are irrelevant to what was being discussed. I'm not sure how you misunderstood that.

 

I'm an Anarchist in the sense that I just want to dismantle the government because it's corrupt. Corporations already control the world, but the Governments in place are the things that enable them to do things like print money and wage war.

 

If I remember correctly Ron Paul also claims to be a free market anarchist.

 

I was an anarchist for short period. Anarchism, however, is a very complex philosophy. "I want to dismantle the current government because it's corrupt" does not make you an anarchist, it makes you a revolutionist. Your anger seems to revolve around "corporate fascism". You're confusing terms.

 

I agree with you completely about the governments allowing certain things and printing money, though...that sounded a bit Ron Paul'ish.

 

Ron Paul is NOT an anarchist in ANY sense of the term however. He is the opposite, he's a Libertarian. In short they believe that people should be allowed to live their lives however than wish so long as it doesn't interfere with other people's right to do the same. Under Paul's belief, and basically everyone with their head properly affixed to their shoulders (referring specifically to free market believers when I say that), a government is NECESSARY.

 

Capitalism and free markets boil down to ONE thing only: private property rights. Without a government to enforce these rights, neither can exist (exceptions being very small utopian-esque societies that have existed around the world that in fairness are little more than tribes.)

 

I find it funny when people say us free market guys want government to go away. Like hell we do! Under our model the free market can't even EXIST without the government! We're the people that coined the term MARKET FAILURE! But I digress -mutters-.

[Addai]

He's not an Anarchist? He's either that or some sort of neo-confederate. Funny how he endorses and writes for this website then: http://www.lewrockwell.com/

 

My problem is not with corporate fascism, it's with the monetary system and almost every acting branch of government.

 

Did you not read my post? He is the opposite of an anarchist. Under his political ideology a government is necessary. Perhaps you don't understand exactly what anarchism is, what libertarianism is, how a free market works, capitalism, etc. Everything I know about Paul I know from a primary source: the man himself. I listen to him speak, his letters, and his books. All else is just noise.

 

Anywho, for YEARS I've been ranting to people about our monetary system. It's so refreshing to hear someone else mention it!!!! Speaking of which, Paul put out a great new book called "End The Fed."

 

He's been the loudest voice for reforming our monetary system for the last three decades. HR 1207, his latest legislation that looks like it might actually pass, you've got to love that bill. I actually arrived to work an hour late just so I could finish watching the three hour house financial committee hearing on it.

[Vegan Joe]

I'm all for a world in which China and Arab nations wield more power than America.

Oh Boy! That sounds like a fun place. Someone pass me a plate of tienemen squares and some of those bomb vests. PLEASE!

[Vegan Joe]

I'll pass you a stolen 2000 election, lies that send people to war and a prison industrial complex. After all, it's in better conscience to just enslave someone than it is to kill them right? God bless the American way.

I'll take the freedoms afforded by the American way any day. Not to mention flushing toilets.

[Addai]

As an American it is really not in your interest to have the pack of lies that keeps your country affluent (the fiat dollar) changed to something like gold or something commodities related. A "fair trade" economic system would impoverish America, who is out manufactured by countries like China and far lower in commodities than countries like Canada and those in the Middle East.

 

I'm all for a world in which China and Arab nations wield more power than America. What you want as an American is up to you. I'm headed back to China anyways.

 

Now really, why do you go and say something dumb like that? Here we are, on the verge of a serious conversation, and you say that? You need to understand that if you're going to say ridiculous things for the point of effect, nobody will respect you, nobody will take you seriously, and your voice will hold no more weight in this world than a bawling child.

 

So I'm going to ignore those ridiculous things and respond to the one reasonable sentence you put in there. I too dislike a fiat currency. That said, every large country in this world operates off fiat. I do not know where you are from (where are you from?) but I'm guessing you're on fiat too. If you don't want fiat, and you don't want commodity, then you're about out of choices. Representative is all you have left, and that's merely commodity backed in lieu of commodity--they're fundamentally the same. So what is it you propose?

[Addai]

Again with the ridiculous statements above...really, I am making an effort to show you respect, the least you could do is be serious.

 

Perhaps you don't understand exactly what anarchism is, what libertarianism is, how a free market works, capitalism, etc. Everything I know about Paul I know from a primary source: the man himself. I listen to him speak, his letters, and his books. All else is just noise.

 

Did you ever notice how Reason Magazine and other libertarian groups were reluctant to endorse Ron Paul because of his ties to the confederacy? Did you know he is also anti abortion and anti gay marriage? He is not a cut and dry libertarian. He is something different.

 

Ron Paul is the human embodiment of libertarian philosophy. If you disagree, than you do not know what libertarianism is. That's not an arguable statement, you either are educated or you are not.

 

Let me respond to a couple of the points you made there. Abortion is not a libertarian mandate. This is a topic that can split any political ideology. In libertarianism there are two schools of thought on this. You seem to only know the first: that a person's right to their body, and their life, is absolute--therefore abortion should be legal. The second, however, is actually more backed by libertarian philosophy than the first: force cannot ever be used to bring about a change, and all humans have a right to their life, going back to the idea that everyone has absolute power over their lives insofar as it does not affect another's right to theirs--therefore, killing a child, terminating life, using force to bring about a change and so on--would be anti-libertarian, and thus abortion should be illegal.

 

That's a similar debate to what you see in any political ideology, and why? Because abortion has NOTHING to do with politics. This goes to the core of our belief systems, and furthermore, any position on abortion can be validated with any one of a thousand rationalizations.

 

Secondly, you say he is against gay marriage. You are wrong. According to Paul, the government should not be involved in marriage, and thus anyone could marry anyone. One thing nearly all libertarians agree on is that marriage ought to be a private union, that government should have no place in it.

 

Now, as for Paul's personal feelings, who knows or cares. Libertarians, just like any other group of people, have prejudices. Some might not like gay people, or meat eaters, transgenders, mexicans, and so on. The difference in libertarianism is that they all agree on one thing: like it or not, people have the right to live their lives as they see fit. I'm sure there are a host of things Paul doesn't like, but he supports your right to do them.

 

For instance, Ron Paul HATES drug use. HATES it. However, he has crusaded for an end to the drug war and for the legalization or marijuana for years. He's a champion of the cause. Yet he hates it. Why? Because him liking or disliking it has nothing to do with your right to live your life how you want it. That's integrity and conviction in your beliefs.

 

I've always found it funny how people compromise. They want rights x,y, and z but only for THEM. Second something goes against what THEY want, they push to restrict another persons rights. The difference with libertarians: they're consistent.

[Addai]

According to Paul, the government should not be involved in marriage, and thus anyone could marry anyone. One thing nearly all libertarians agree on is that marriage ought to be a private union, that government should have no place in it.

 

Was something unclear?