boardn10

One thing I never seem to be able to get is a 6 pack. When I get lean, I just have flat abs.

Vegan, what do you consider maxing out? Are you referring to a one set max?

I tried full body workouts but they never work for me ultra done once a week or I over train. Example I trained legs today and did heavy, intense square. My quads are killing me and will still be sore days from now so fir me each body part is hit once a week. I hate having muscle overlap and over training during the week's workouts. Perfect example. I am stressing because when I do stiff legged deadlifts on Monday, my upper back is still sore on Wednesday which is my current back day.

I really want to try Robert's sample program. It is similar to a program I did in college. However, at this stage of my life, I am short on time and 4 days could be rough. 3 days of lifting appear to be my current limit so I make the best of it. I even thought of doing a 4 day a week program but splitting my workouts into two a day....but I am not sure I can pull it off between work and child care. I also have limitations with my shoulders. Thanks to shoulder pain, I can't do overhead presses. For this reason, one of my main shoulder exercises are dips and sips hit the pecs so there is serious overlap there if I do shoulders and pecs on separate days.

The data was collected on animals, not people. Most results from animal testing don't apply to human beings and vice-versa. Different systems. The feeding studies done on animals have never been done to the same extent with people. You can't lock a human being in a cage and control all their inputs for a life time. Google on CRON. They have a yahoo group. Talk to them, they will tell you the same thing. They believe they are making an educated gamble. No, it was collected on people. There was even a recent 40 year study conducted going over similar data. Hey, I am not saying I follow a low calorie diet, but the proof is there, and it makes complete sense. Unfortunately I love bodybuilding too much. LOL.

I would like to know what I need to do to get to the next level. Been lifting weights and bodybuilding for 24 years but I have never thought of competing till now. How much larger do I need to be? I am 6'2 1/2" and 212 lbs. I guess I just need some guidance on what my steps should be. I have an idea but want to make sure I am not missing anything. This would be for an all-natural contest!

Good points. I may give it a try. I am looking for a new routine and I know I did a variation of this years ago. I just know that if I do stiff legged dead lifts, my hams can be sore for 5 days or more. If I have a hard chest workout, my pecs can be sore for days too so I always wait a day or two after the soreness subsides.

Hey guys, I re-read Vegan Bodybuilding and Fitness and can't help but notice the sample training program on pages 116-117 seems to contain a lot of overlap between days and a lot of possibility for over training. I come from the school of thought to only hit each muscle group at most once a week, so if I were to do chest one day and triceps and shoulders another day...my tris are getting pounded and not much time for recovery. However, maybe he is not going to failure as much. I tend to go all out when I go to the gym so I will for example do chest, shoulders and triceps in one workout with low volume, very high intensity. Thoughts on this? I bring this up because this sample workout looked interesting but I fear the overlap and over training.

Actually there is cold hard data to support a calorie restricted diet. Lots of it.

But would Jack have lived past 100 and in decent health had he eaten less and not lifted as heavy? Hey, I am on your side....I am just playing devil's advocate. I do a lot of reading about longevity and health and the number one way found to increase longevity and health is a restricted diet. How do you take care of your joints?

There is a mountain of research showing that a low calorie, nutrient dense diet is one of the big keys to not only longevity, but also a healthy existence. I have been battling this lately because I want to eat less calories but low calorie diets do not exactly go hand in hand with bodybuilding. Although I have heard of some guys on the forum building muscle on fairly low calorie raw diets so maybe it can be done. I try to concentrate on nutrient dense more than anything.

Sounds like you are thinking that really heavy lifting is hard on your joints, causing future problems? So, it sounds like maybe my dream of being a master class bodybuilder in his 50s and 60s, may not happen. How do guys like Clarence Bass still do it without joint pain? I know he had a hip replacement so maybe there goes that theory.

I definitely agree but I am talking more about hard bodybuilding where you regularly push to new heights....not just weight training for health.

I keep wondering am I placing too much stress on my joints, tendons and ligaments. I have lifted heavy for 24 years but sometimes wonder if it is natural or should I stick to light weights, walking, low impact, etc. Will I be better off in the long run? How many bodybuilders who are natural, experience serious joint problems as they get older and as a result of heavy lifting? I have always stood on the other side of the fence and believe it strengthens not only the musculature, but all of the tendons and ligaments, hence strengthening the joints. Any thoughts on this?

I was only able to get about 5 hours sleep last night and I have a heavy chest workout today. I slept great all week but had a bad night last night. Typically I will just tough through and then catch up sleep in the following nights. You all think this is OK? It is interesting though that even after little sleep, I can still be very strong in the gym. -Rich

Thanks Vegan.... I train through a lot of pain but somehow get through it.

Hey all... I know I was stopping lifting due to back issues and muscle pain due to Babesiosis and a Bartonella infection...but I just couldn;t stay out of the gym. This thing is not going to beat me. My doctor is worried if I train hard, building muscle...I will weaken my immune system due to the extra stress placed on the body. Not sure how accurate that is, especially since I have immune issues but so far I am back in the gym and making progress. I still have limitations due to shoulder and back issues. No squats or overhead pressing. My weight is up over 210 at 6'2 1/2"

Yes, I want to investigate yoga. One friend claims Bikram Yoga can cure all physical symptoms, but he also hurt his back doing this! Not sure what to think. I do believe the heated room of Bikram really helps so maybe I can find a more gentle yoga that also uses a hot room.

You know, I always thought I would be the guy to live to be 100 in good shape, I would be the guy to compete in a masters class competition at 75, I thought I'd do this till I died. Lyme disease, Bartonella, Babesiosis and now Ankylosing Spondilitis took that all away from me. I have horrible spine swelling and horrible pain through my spine and upper back. Looks like my AS is getting worse and so goes the lifting, out the window. I wanted to let you guys know it has been fun and informative. You all are some of the best people around. Really good, caring people on this forum. I will check in from time to time but for now I need to work on my health and try to fight back. Peace, Rich

Is the Omega vert also single auger? My nutritionist urged me to stay with the slow juicers. I bought the Hurom on the Black Friday sale at $299 with free shipping. I am fighting Candida right now due to taking antibiotics and I am told to not juice for another two weeks. till I get it under control.

Thanks for the support and ideas! Yep, my nutritionist says juicing should really help! I am going to get a Hurom slow juicer and start soon. I don't want to over do it either during this period. I am hoping I don't notice much muscle soreness as I normally notice that during heavy periods, then I get the DOMS. I have to decide if I want to do a split or just do maybe three light full body workouts a week.

The Bikram thing is confusing because I have friends who swear by it. I read claims of Bikram having the capability to help people relieve and even get rid of some serious symptoms.

Since I am going through a tough time with some serious infections and immune system problems....I might start to back off from the heavy training for a while and just do a light to medium weight circuit type program staying in the 12-15 rep range and never going to failure or near exhaustion. My immunologist and nutritionist are urging me to take a break. I have really been pushing it and made nice gains but I might need to back of for several months and concentrate on strengthening my immune system. Does anyone think I can maintain what I have built by following a light to moderate circuit, maybe even a three day a week full body program? If not this I could do a 3 day split or something like that. Today may be my last heavy, all out workout for some time. Thoughts? Ideas?

You really notice a big difference with those yoga poses? I would like to start taking Bikram Yoga but was scared off when a friend got into it only to seriously injure his back. I might still do it but can't afford Bikram just yet. I make sure I get a good warm up in before trap bar deads and stiff legged deads. I also am sure form is good and I go up in weight slowly. I find I do trap bar deads better than squats so I made the switch. Due to a disease I have, there is a lot of upper back pain, shoulder and arm pain so it is more comfortable for me to do trap deads and leg press for quads. I do stiff legged deads for hams. I am not sure if I shold do shrugs or not. I did heavy smith machine shrugs the other day after deads and felt a dull pain in my spine so I stopped.

VeganEssentials, it is really frustrating all of the conflicting arguments! A freiend of mine with some serioous back issue, herniated disks, etc adn who also had had some fusing done in his cervical spine.....recently started doing yoga and pilates. The instructors and also his neurologist told him how bad heavy weight lifting is for the spin and the health of the nerves that run along the spine. UGH! Yikes! I hate the lack of knowledge and understanding out there on these issues! The Neurologist ev en went on to say how many lifters he sees with arm and leg problems from damaged nerves!