Vegetarian Dog Products?

[joelbct]

Hey, long time no post... hope everyone is well in vegan-athlete-internet-land!

 

So my housemates brought home a puppy, he is not 100% vegan but if I am to feed him, I need vegan products... can anyone recommend a good vendor or brand of Plant-based/Vegan Dog food, and non-animal product chew toys?

 

I did find a good vegan dog treat, Petgaurd "Mr. Pugsly's Vegetarian Dog Biscuits..." But no luck on the vegan dry dog food front yet...

 

Thank you!

 

-Joel (and Jasper, below!)

 

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/joelbct/Hammock2.jpg

[VeganEssentials]

http://www.vegancats.com and http://www.veganessentials.comwill do the trick for what you need. And, let it be said, I have no affiliation with either company

 

Seriously, though, we do stock tons of different things for vegan dog and cat products and foods. For dog foods, there the HOANA kibble mix, Evolution Diet canned food and kibble, PetGuard canned foods (two types), Natural Balance kibble, Natural Life kibble, and Ami Dog kibble, with a few new brands coming in the next 2 months. Lots more to come this fall, too!

[veginator]

According to PETA's page on animal nutrition needs, some breeds of dogs (they don't say which ones) need supplemental carnitine and taurine (types of aminos) to reduce the risk of a heart condition called dilated cardiomyopathy if they're going to be vegetarian or vegan, or even if they're eating certain commercial non-veg dogfoods. Vegedog is the supplement we give our dogs to make sure they get those (available at vegepet.com). I can't remember the brand of dog food we feed our dogs because we put it in a big plastic bin and recycle the bag as soon as we get it, but there are a fair number of vegetarian or vegan dog foods out there. PETA's page has a list of companies that both make a veggie dog food and say that they don't test on animals.

 

Here's a page I found that seems a little more informative about all of this: http://www.ygrr.org/doginfo/health-heartcondition.html. They say 90% of dilated cardiomyopathy cases are in eight breeds, and that "A healthy dog's body produces the nutrients naturally - taurine from vitamin B-6 and the amino acids methionine and cysteine; carnitine from lysine, methionine and vitamins C, B-1 and B-6 in the liver. " It doesn't say what foods are best for making sure these nutrients are obtained, so in short there seems to be a shortage of information on the Internet on how to make sure dogs' nutritional needs can be met on a veggie diet without supplements, though it appears it's possible. Vegetarian Resource Group has a list of how much of different amino acids are in certain foods and it looks like there are a fair number of food with high levels of the amino acids taurine, lysine, and methionine.

[joelbct]

According to PETA's page on animal nutrition needs, some breeds of dogs (they don't say which ones) need supplemental carnitine and taurine (types of aminos) to reduce the risk of a heart condition called dilated cardiomyopathy if they're going to be vegetarian or vegan, or even if they're eating certain commercial non-veg dogfoods.

 

Thanks Veginator- This dog is not 100% mine, so he will not be able to be 100% vegan anyway (I tried), but I am aware of the carnitine and taurine issue- many vegan dog foods have those included, among other supplements.

 

From what I have read, despite lack of Veterinary education on the issue, Veg dogs live healthier lives than factory-farmed-meat-eating-Dogs. Alas, Veterinary science is muchly in the pockets of the Meat industry, as is clear from the dockets and pending legislation commentary at the FDA and US Agriculture Department websites... very sad.

 

Cats, I think particularly male cats, have a harder time due to urinary tract issues, and probably shouldn't be Vegan. So I suppose ethical Vegans probably shouldn't own Cats... c'est la vie!

 

And VeganEssentials, thanks, I already placed an order from V-Dogs, and one from Amazon for "Sam's Yams' veggie rawhide, but I will def stop by veganessentials for my next order. Cheers-

[Marcina]

 

Cats, I think particularly male cats, have a harder time due to urinary tract issues, and probably shouldn't be Vegan. So I suppose ethical Vegans probably shouldn't own Cats... c'est la vie!

 

 

I've owned cats since before I went vegan, and I feed them meat. Are you saying I'm not an ethical vegan unless I get rid of them?

[Aaron]

Marcina, probably depends on your ethics. If you're going straight on animal suffering... well there's some math to do - how much cow/chicken/whatever is your cat going to eat in it's lifetime? If you throw some other considerations in then maybe the math goes the other way...

 

-a

[Marcina]

Cats are carnivores and need to eat meat. If I don't feed them meat, they'd die. It's the food chain, my friend. Humans can survive perfectly fine without meat, so they really don't need to eat it. They certainly don't need to treat animals like crap to get it either.

 

I love my cats, and I'm not going to give them up because they are natural carnivores. You guys can call me a shitty vegan all you want, I don't care.

[veginator]

Cats are carnivores and need to eat meat. If I don't feed them meat, they'd die.

 

No, actually they will only die (or be sick) if they don't get the nutrients they need, same as humans who don't eat meat. These days, there isn't much naturally occurring Vitamin B-12 in fruits and vegetables, so vegans have to eat foods fortified with it or take supplements occasionally. As long as we do that, we're fine, but we risk nervous system damage if we don't.

 

By the same token, as long as you feed your cats supplements with carnitine and taurine and take precautions to make sure they (especially males) don't get urinary tract infections, cats can eat a vegan diet, too. Just Google around and you'll find plenty of information on how to keep cats healthy on a vegan diet, if you're interested. On the other hand, if someone feeds their cat a vegan diet and isn't careful how they do it, of course it's easier to screw up the cat's health than it is with a human, because cats are natural carnivores. But that doesn't mean they can't eat a vegan diet and be perfectly healthy.

[VeganEssentials]

Cats are carnivores and need to eat meat. If I don't feed them meat, they'd die.

 

No, actually they will only die (or be sick) if they don't get the nutrients they need, same as humans who don't eat meat. These days, there isn't much naturally occurring Vitamin B-12 in fruits and vegetables, so vegans have to eat foods fortified with it or take supplements occasionally. As long as we do that, we're fine, but we risk nervous system damage if we don't.

 

By the same token, as long as you feed your cats supplements with carnitine and taurine and take precautions to make sure they (especially males) don't get urinary tract infections, cats can eat a vegan diet, too. Just Google around and you'll find plenty of information on how to keep cats healthy on a vegan diet, if you're interested. On the other hand, if someone feeds their cat a vegan diet and isn't careful how they do it, of course it's easier to screw up the cat's health than it is with a human, because cats are natural carnivores. But that doesn't mean they can't eat a vegan diet and be perfectly healthy.

 

Nicely put. Saves me the time of getting back into one of these discussions about cats needing meat, vs. the fact that they need taurine and arachadonic acid which can be synthetically derived instead of from meat as they'd normally get it.

[Marcina]

Cats are carnivores and need to eat meat. If I don't feed them meat, they'd die.

 

No, actually they will only die (or be sick) if they don't get the nutrients they need, same as humans who don't eat meat. These days, there isn't much naturally occurring Vitamin B-12 in fruits and vegetables, so vegans have to eat foods fortified with it or take supplements occasionally. As long as we do that, we're fine, but we risk nervous system damage if we don't.

 

By the same token, as long as you feed your cats supplements with carnitine and taurine and take precautions to make sure they (especially males) don't get urinary tract infections, cats can eat a vegan diet, too. Just Google around and you'll find plenty of information on how to keep cats healthy on a vegan diet, if you're interested. On the other hand, if someone feeds their cat a vegan diet and isn't careful how they do it, of course it's easier to screw up the cat's health than it is with a human, because cats are natural carnivores. But that doesn't mean they can't eat a vegan diet and be perfectly healthy.

 

Dude, I'm a veterinary assistant. I went to school for a year and I know some things about pet nutrition. I've been to multiple seminars on the subject, and been working with animals for almost a year. Cats are carnivores, and I don't want to screw around with that by giving them synthetic supplements and "hoping" it will make them healthy. There's much more to it that just giving cats synthetic proteins. I just don't feel it's natural to feed a meat-eating animal a plant diet. Cats need to have a urinary PH of 6.3-6.5. Cats also have a unique liver. There are so many shitty cat foods out there that can cause urinary and liver problems over the long-term.. How am I supposed to know these vegan foods are any good? Are they AAFCO approved? Been thoroughly tested? Will they help form acidic urine? How much protein and fat is in it? (Cats don't digest carbohydrates well)

 

I'm sorry, based on all the knowledge I know about pet health, I cannot give my cats a vegan diet and trust it will keep them healthy. Back on the subject about the unique liver cat's have, if the liver starts to fail it's too late to fix the problem by time the cat starts showing symptoms. When cats get sick, they go down fast. I'm not willing to risk that.

[Marcina]

Btw, I know I probably seem quite bitchy or like a know-it-all or something. I'm not trying to come across as such. I get very defensive about this subject because I've seen sooo many sick cats at my practice as a result of negligent owners, or because uninformed but well intentioned owners don't know how to feed their cats and they end up getting sick and dying of something that is easily preventable.

 

I work with sick animals everyday, and it's hard because you don't know what happens to them when they go home.

[VeganEssentials]

There are so many shitty cat foods out there that can cause urinary and liver problems over the long-term.. How am I supposed to know these vegan foods are any good? Are they AAFCO approved? Been thoroughly tested? Will they help form acidic urine? How much protein and fat is in it? (Cats don't digest carbohydrates well)

 

All the brands made in the USA are AAFCO-approved, such as Evolution Diet foods and HOANA brand products. Both are brands that have been on the market since the 1980s and have been thoroughly tested (James Peden, founder of HOANA, did years of laboratory research and nutrient testing before settling on their formulas). Different brands have different nutrient ratios, so it depends on the chosen preference.

 

If the brands on the market weren't AAFCO-approved and hadn't been in use for around 20some years with great success, I can see having a great degree of skepticism. However, there are many, many people out there who have been feeding their cats vegan food for long periods, sometimes for the cat's entire life, and have had great results. But, as often goes with products, the people who have the biggest problems tend to shout 10x louder than those who have the best results, so what usually gets the most news is that so-and-so's cat had health issues on a vegan diet much moreso than all those whose cats thrive on it. It's just like anything else - while a million cats may live long, healthy lives eating something like Friskies brand cat food, others may not deal with it well and have health complications. It's much like how going vegan as a person doesn't mean you won't be able to get cancer, heart problems, or other ailments - there are no guarantees in life, and while it'd be nice to say that a vegan diet is optimal for all animals, there will always be exceptions in those who do not take to it as well as others. Humans and animals are very much alike in that manner.

 

It's the personal choice of the person caring for the animal to decide if they want to change the diet for the cat. If someone is not completely comfortable with changing a cat's diet and has not done enough research to feel confident in the change (not to mention, committed themselves to doing the diet PROPERLY vs. winging it, which usually results in bad things happening), then they are best to not try it, or only try a partially vegan diet for the animal to test it. It's nothing to go into lightly - a change of diet for a cat to go vegan is a serious issue and needs to be addressed properly and thoughtfully to ensure that the cat's health comes first and is monitored closely. Anything less is irresponsible and downright dangerous for the animal.

[Marcina]

Yes, I agree with you.

[joelbct]

I've owned cats since before I went vegan, and I feed them meat. Are you saying I'm not an ethical vegan unless I get rid of them?

 

Well that is a conundrum. I didn't mean to insult anyone, but with the puppy coming into our house, I certainly had to ask myself the question of whether I wanted 20-40 animals to suffer and die each year in factory farms and slaughterhouses, so that I can feed him animal-based food. This is coming from someone who was inspired to Veganism several years ago by slaughterhouse and factory farming expose films, like 'Meat your Meat.' After watching that footage, I would have a very hard time buying any meat product, whether it is going to myself or my pet.

 

Now if I myself had owned a cat before I went vegan, no I wouldn't put it down, but my compassion for the animals suffering in those unspeakable factory farms would certainly force me to phase the cat onto an AAFCO approved, veterinary-tested vegetable cat food, with appropriate supplements and after doing plenty of research on the matter. I think that is clearly the course that yields the least suffering all around.

 

You could say this is not in keeping with their ancestral fare, and an 'unnatural' diet for the cat, but so is Meow Mix. Evolution has regularly seen descendants of carnivores become herbivores, and visa versa, and 10,000 years of domestication means that cats are pretty far from the 'natural' diet of their ancestors anyway.