Alkaline Diet, Supergreens & PH miracle

[Sid]

Hi All,

Has anyone tried or is on an Alkaline diet?

Has anyone tried Supergreens or read the PH Miracle?

What are your views on the above wirh regards to health & fitness?

[DaN]

I do not know what these are - but I hear alkaline foods are plant foods & that it is much healthier than acidic foods like meat.

 

I hear that cancer in the body thrives in acidic environments & struggles in alkaline, making us vegans far less susceptable to it than people eating meat.But I have only heard this on this forum, in fragments.

 

I would be interested to read a book on it.... could you list where you are getting your data from?

 

[xjohanx]

I guess I'm on an alkaline diet since 90+% of my calories comes from unprocessed plant food and the rest comes from either oils or refined carbs. However I don't eat any special foods to get my body in an even more alkaline state. Are there any plant whole foods that isn't considered alkaline?

[RAINRA]

Alkaline diets and supergreens such as bac choi, kale, arugula, clorella (and other seaweed), mustard greens and barley grass and wheat grass are all part of the super foods high alkaline cancer buster foods. These are by far the best foods you can eat.

 

Post recipes... if anyone has a more super green meal ideas besides salad.

and smoothies.

[Sid]

I got my info from Dr Robert O Young who wrote the PH miracle.

[cubby2112]

Soups loaded with greens are also a great options. Legumes, grains and many fruits tend to be slightly acidic, but nowhere near as acidic as meat for the most part. Most yellow and orange vegetables are also highly alkaline, just not as much so as greens.

 

As far as health, the ph level is likely very important, but there are so many helpful phytochemicals that those high nutrient foods are loaded with. It is about the whole picture, not just the ph level. An alkaline balance in your diet is just one sign of nutrient density, not the only part of it.

 

There is evidence as far as fitness goes, though, that alkaline diets may help with gaining and maintaining muscle. In a study which has been discussed here before, elderly people were tested and those on a more alkaline (vegetarian) diet has less muscle wastage than those on a SAD diet. This may translate into an advantage in muscle building for athletes, but there is no direct evidence to support that.

[RawVgn]

Body acidity is a pretty standard idea in holistic health circles. I'm a low-fat raw vegan and eat only raw fruit and greens-all alkaline foods. Many starches, like grains and legumes, are often mildy acidic because protein (which is relatively high in these foods) usually appears with acidic elements like sulphur. The acidity of most protein molecules is one reason some experts advise against consuming protein powders, grains, and so on. The body can operate in a very narrow ph range, so consuming acids forces it to neutralize the acids by buffering with endogenous bases (leaching calcium from the bones basically.) This is why countries like the US and Norway, which lead the world in dairy consumption (high protein), have the highest rates of osteoporosis. It is also believed that the residual buffer salts ,from neutralizing acid consumption, eventually leads to degenerative diseases like arthritis as the salts lodge in the joints and tissues. Kidney stones and kidney diseases are also thought to be caused by acid consumption since the kidneys do not appear designed to endlessly filter the buffer byproducts.

 

Typically peoples body acidity increases as they age, though it is not clear that this is natural-it may be the consequence of eating foods we are not biologically evolved to eat. Acidity is closely associated with aging and disease-terminal cancer patients' body ph is often 100 times greater than healthy people and children usually also have relatively alkaline bodies.

 

If you buy some mid resolution ph paper, that reads to tenths of a unit, you can monitor your body ph. Just wait a few hours after eating and test your saliva; it should be at leat 6.8 if you are eating well and healthy. You can test your urine too, though I can't recall the recomended range.

 

There is a holistic health school that believes there is literally an acid test for health.

 

Generally speaking (there are a few exceptions), food acidity is as follows (from most acidic to alkaline):

 

Meat

Dairy

Starches-mildly acidic

Greens-mildly alkaline

Fruit-very alkaline

 

Keep in mind too that NOMINALLY acid foods like citrus fruit leave an alkaline RESIDUAL after metabolism, which is what determines a foods ph for health purposes. Milk is nominally alkaline but burns down to an acid residual-so it is an acid food.

 

My health improved dramatically when I switched over to an alkaline diet; I highly recomend eating all raw fruit and greens- the only alkaline diet I believe is theoretically possible.

[Im Your Man]

Milk is nominally alkaline but burns down to an acid residual-so it is an acid food.

I've read on many charts listing the which foods are acidic and alkaline (like on this one) that only pasteurized milk is acidic. If raw milk was acidic, it wouldn't be a very healthy food for babies, for all species. No ?

[Im Your Man]

Maybe cow's milk is alkaline only to calves. Human milk is alkaline only to human babies. Ect...

[RawVgn]

I think human milk is much lower in protein than cows' milk, so probably less acidic though a small amount of acidity for a few infant years might not be a big deal for our systems? ALOT of diff protein molecules out there and most are bonded with acidic elements like sulphur and iodine, but who knows about human milk?

[Sid]

Body acidity is a pretty standard idea in holistic health circles. I'm a low-fat raw vegan and eat only raw fruit and greens-all alkaline foods. Many starches, like grains and legumes, are often mildy acidic because protein (which is relatively high in these foods) usually appears with acidic elements like sulphur. The acidity of most protein molecules is one reason some experts advise against consuming protein powders, grains, and so on. The body can operate in a very narrow ph range, so consuming acids forces it to neutralize the acids by buffering with endogenous bases (leaching calcium from the bones basically.) This is why countries like the US and Norway, which lead the world in dairy consumption (high protein), have the highest rates of osteoporosis. It is also believed that the residual buffer salts ,from neutralizing acid consumption, eventually leads to degenerative diseases like arthritis as the salts lodge in the joints and tissues. Kidney stones and kidney diseases are also thought to be caused by acid consumption since the kidneys do not appear designed to endlessly filter the buffer byproducts.

 

Typically peoples body acidity increases as they age, though it is not clear that this is natural-it may be the consequence of eating foods we are not biologically evolved to eat. Acidity is closely associated with aging and disease-terminal cancer patients' body ph is often 100 times greater than healthy people and children usually also have relatively alkaline bodies.

 

If you buy some mid resolution ph paper, that reads to tenths of a unit, you can monitor your body ph. Just wait a few hours after eating and test your saliva; it should be at leat 6.8 if you are eating well and healthy. You can test your urine too, though I can't recall the recomended range.

 

There is a holistic health school that believes there is literally an acid test for health.

 

Generally speaking (there are a few exceptions), food acidity is as follows (from most acidic to alkaline):

 

Meat

Dairy

Starches-mildly acidic

Greens-mildly alkaline

Fruit-very alkaline

 

Keep in mind too that NOMINALLY acid foods like citrus fruit leave an alkaline RESIDUAL after metabolism, which is what determines a foods ph for health purposes. Milk is nominally alkaline but burns down to an acid residual-so it is an acid food.

 

My health improved dramatically when I switched over to an alkaline diet; I highly recomend eating all raw fruit and greens- the only alkaline diet I believe is theoretically possible.

 

I agree with most of this apart from, I think that greens are more alkaline than fruits, some fruits are highly acidic due to the sugar content and not too sure about milk apart from it being mucus-producing.

[Sid]

Body acidity is a pretty standard idea in holistic health circles. I'm a low-fat raw vegan and eat only raw fruit and greens-all alkaline foods. Many starches, like grains and legumes, are often mildy acidic because protein (which is relatively high in these foods) usually appears with acidic elements like sulphur. The acidity of most protein molecules is one reason some experts advise against consuming protein powders, grains, and so on. The body can operate in a very narrow ph range, so consuming acids forces it to neutralize the acids by buffering with endogenous bases (leaching calcium from the bones basically.) This is why countries like the US and Norway, which lead the world in dairy consumption (high protein), have the highest rates of osteoporosis. It is also believed that the residual buffer salts ,from neutralizing acid consumption, eventually leads to degenerative diseases like arthritis as the salts lodge in the joints and tissues. Kidney stones and kidney diseases are also thought to be caused by acid consumption since the kidneys do not appear designed to endlessly filter the buffer byproducts.

 

Typically peoples body acidity increases as they age, though it is not clear that this is natural-it may be the consequence of eating foods we are not biologically evolved to eat. Acidity is closely associated with aging and disease-terminal cancer patients' body ph is often 100 times greater than healthy people and children usually also have relatively alkaline bodies.

 

If you buy some mid resolution ph paper, that reads to tenths of a unit, you can monitor your body ph. Just wait a few hours after eating and test your saliva; it should be at leat 6.8 if you are eating well and healthy. You can test your urine too, though I can't recall the recomended range.

 

There is a holistic health school that believes there is literally an acid test for health.

 

Generally speaking (there are a few exceptions), food acidity is as follows (from most acidic to alkaline):

 

Meat

Dairy

Starches-mildly acidic

Greens-mildly alkaline

Fruit-very alkaline

 

Keep in mind too that NOMINALLY acid foods like citrus fruit leave an alkaline RESIDUAL after metabolism, which is what determines a foods ph for health purposes. Milk is nominally alkaline but burns down to an acid residual-so it is an acid food.

 

My health improved dramatically when I switched over to an alkaline diet; I highly recomend eating all raw fruit and greens- the only alkaline diet I believe is theoretically possible.

 

I agree with most of this apart from, I think that greens are more alkaline than fruits, some fruits are highly acidic due to the sugar content and not too sure about milk apart from it being mucus-producing.

[RawVgn]

I've never seen anything suggesting sugar is acidic. Sugar is the only molecule our bodies can oxidize to release chemical energy, so unless the sugar was bound with an acidic mineral, it will leave no metabolic residual. If you check food ph tables, you will see that almost all fruit is highly alkaline, at least as far as foods go. You have to always distinguish between nominal and residual ph, residual being mineral remains after burning/oxidation. The only residual from almost all fruit oxidation is water-it is natures nearly perfect food; it leaves almost no waste to accumulate and eventually cause degenerative diseases.

[Sid]

I've never seen anything suggesting sugar is acidic. Sugar is the only molecule our bodies can oxidize to release chemical energy, so unless the sugar was bound with an acidic mineral, it will leave no metabolic residual. If you check food ph tables, you will see that almost all fruit is highly alkaline, at least as far as foods go. You have to always distinguish between nominal and residual ph, residual being mineral remains after burning/oxidation. The only residual from almost all fruit oxidation is water-it is natures nearly perfect food; it leaves almost no waste to accumulate and eventually cause degenerative diseases.

 

In the book pH miracle by Dr. Robert O Young its got a table of foods and it shows fruits as acidic apart from avocado, tomato, lemon and lime. In the book Dr. Young says that sugar feeds -ve microforms which produce acidic wastes which make people Sick & Tired.

Tony Robbins also advocates this. He previously used to advocate the Fit for Life diet by Harvey Diamond which was largely fruit based, but he said it left him feelind tired.

[RawVgn]

Interesting Sid

 

I'll keep my eye out for sugar criticisms. It strikes me as odd though, since only sugar can be oxidized by the body for chemical energy release; sugar is the ONLY energy source the body has. Any other macronutrient consumed has to be digested to sugar before it can be burned. As a person who consumes over 80% of his calories from sugar (raw fruit), I can tell you from first hand experience it does not lead to fatigue or an acid body; I am very high energy and my saliva usually comes in at about 7.5 ph which is very alkaline.

 

My geuss is they are referring to yeast growth which is definitely an issue on a high fruit diet, if you don't aggressively limit fat. In order to avoid microorganism growth (yeast) on a fruit diet, you have to limit fat consumption to no more than 10% of calories. Otherwise, the insulin receptors along the arterial walls start getting clogged up reducing energy delivery to the cells and keeping sugar in the blood long enough for yeast growth. It's very easy to exceed 10% fat- eating all fruit and one avacado a day will come in at about 15% daily fat, or eating 2 ounces of nuts a day will do the same thing. To be successful on a high fruit diet, you have to aggressively limit fat meaning no more than 1 ounce of nuts or 1/2 avacado a day for most people. If you keep the fat way down, the sugar burns like dry kindling and you have endless energy and there is no acid by-product from micro-organisms that don't have an opportunity to flourish.

[DaN]

Rawvgn & Sid - I am finding this very interesting.

 

I am curious Rawvgn, how much fruit do you eat per day & are you doing any weight training.Also how long have you been eating only fruit.

 

In fact can you tell me the whole story.Sorry if that is a bit nosy, I am just interested in a healthy diet & at the moment I am eating all sorts of vegan foods includiing cooked foods, which I am noticing are making me more sluggish than raw.

 

[RawVgn]

About 95% of my daily calories come from fresh fruit-more if you consider tomatoes and cucumber as fruit. The only non-fruit I eat are greens like chinese cabbage and lettuces which don't amount to many calories regardless of how many you eat. A typical breakfast for me is often 6 large bananas, in the summer lunch might be 1/3 of a large watermelon, dinner might be a large canatlope, after dinner snack might be another 6 bananas. As snacks during the day I typical eat 1 or 2 large salads of cucumber, greens, tomatoe, and half an avacado a day, and misc fruit as desired.

 

Because I don't eat grains or legumes or roots and so on (all foods that require a lot of energy to digest and yield low net energy per cal consumed), my overall cal req are probably 20% lower than a person my size and activity level. I do super high intensity weight lifting twice a week for half an hour each session, so about an hour a week total-only half an hour actual lifting. Sometimes I also run 20-40 minutes a week, and I do Yoga stretches about 20 mins a week. In my experience, diet is about 80% of fitness so it is very easy for me to maintain a high level of fitness with minimum work.

 

I learned how to eat this way from a book by Dr Douglas Graham called "The 80/10/10 Diet." It's a fascinating read.

 

Fatigue is probably the most common complaint I hear from vegan friends. In fact, a few of my vegan aquintances have gone back to the SAD because of being tired a lot. Ordinary vegan diets are typically based on starches, and starches are relatively tough (which is why they almost always have to be cooked to break down their cellulose casings) so the body uses a lot of energy just trying to convert them into monosacharrides for transport to the cells and oxidation. Fruit on the other hand is already monosacharride and does not in most cases even have to be digested; it moves very rapidly into the intestines and is absorbed by the villi right into the blood for transport-which is why triathletes eat dates and oranges and other fruits during competitions.

 

Hope this helps.

[DaN]

Thanks RawVgn, thats fascinating.

 

If you dont mind I have a few more questions

 

What are the effects on the teeth, with such a high sugar diet?

 

Are you getting enough protein?

 

I am trying to add muscle, as I am naturally quite slim.Could I do this on a diet like yours?

 

Are you trying to gain weight?

 

Also, lastly (I promise!), how do you feel, & how long have you been eating like that?

 

I am beginning to feel sluggish after cooked food, but great after the vast quantities of fruit I already eat.

 

[RawVgn]

I've been on the diet 10 months.

 

Teeth tend to do real well on this diet as there is little to get stuck on them. I've read that sticky stuff like dried fruit is what really tears up teeth.

 

Fruit averages about 5% protein which our school believes is ideal for good health. There is a growing belief in expert nutritional circles that excess protein consumption is bad. i also eat a lot of raw greens which avg about 15% protein. Our school also believes that cooking macronutrients like protein and fat denatures them and makes them largely biounavailable while simultaneously creating byproducts, many inorganic, that toxify the body and must be removed.

 

At 6-1 and 173 lbs I don't worry about getting bigger. My strength is far greater than I need for even my pretty active lifestyle. Even so, my strength is gradually increasing because of this diet and occasional high-intensity lifting. And I'm 48 yrs old.

 

About 4 days after switching to this diet, I had to increase the weights I was lifting about 30% across the board! In 35 yrs of intermittent lifting, I have never otherwise experienced a step-wise increase in strength; in the past, it's always been very gradual if at all. As long as I don't indulge in nuts and keep the fat under 10%, I feel super energetic and strong. At 48, I am stronger and healthier than I ever have been in my life! And the health extends from my clear, smooth skin and muscle strength all the way into my cholesterol level and blood pressure; my Dr looked at my biostats during my last annual checkup and said I should go on the health lecture circuit.

[DaN]

RawVgn, thanks so much for your replies -

 

I am considering shifting to a diet like yours, from my standard vegan diet.My concerns about teeth are due to some expensive dental bills I am paying at the moment, a punishment for years of not looking after my teeth!

 

My only other concern other than that is trying to bulk up.I am naturally quite skinny, at 6ft, & have made it my task to get my body to a size I am proud of.I am having good success on my current diet, but worry I will lose that success if icut out what we are told helps with muscle growth - beans, peas, nuts, etc... ie protein sources.Perhaps I will have the courage to try cutting these things out for a while, & just see how it goes

 

You sound like you are in great shape, so congratulations on that, I hope you wont mind if I ask some more questions some time soon, but for now I'll shut up!

 

[Sid]

I think I'll have to read 80/10/10.

[Sid]

I think I'll have to read 80/10/10.

[RawVgn]

Sure. feel free to ask questions. And yeh, Dr Graham does a real good job laying our this diet in his book. Lots of good solid science and decades of experience with the diet on himself and hundreds of clients, some world class athletes. If you go to vegsource.com look down the left column for his discussion group. Tons of people in there who use the diet, some for many years Dr Gs been on it over 20 years himself.

 

Sometimes it will take me a few days to answer; I travel a lot sometimes and often work 65 hour workweeks so things can get hectic for me.