Are We As A Nation Really Supporting Genocide?

[blabbate]

Alright people, don't come on this thread and start saying negative things towards the country which gives you the right to protest in the first place. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Like it or not if you were born in the United States, if you go anywhere else in the world, you are considered an american. Even if you were boprn here and grew up in another country you are still considered an american. So when you start disrespecting your hiome country you are disrespecting yourselves as well.

Yeah, when people say that America has done horrible things in the past, what they really mean is that they hate the country and everything it stands for, don't respect it at all, and would advocate its destruction.

 

Maybe Joe isn't directly insulting you, but I'm comfortable saying you seem like an idiot.

[CollegeB]

I don't think the KKK were really labeled terrorists until fairly recently in our history. The mainstream media of the day in the 1800's was not featuring articles about how the KKK are terrorists. Of course what they were doing was terrorism. It's taken a paradigm shift to where most accept people as people regardless of color to recognize terrorism can happen to anyone.

 

Ryofire has a fair point. Many of us were born in the states and that makes us americans, but it's my belief that just because I was born somewhere no one is entitled to rule me nor does it obligate me to serve anyone. It's a shame that people are classified based on what gang claims ownership of them. I'm not a slave nor a surf for some feudal lord, and nobody else should be one either. I wish people would stop thinking thinking otherwise.

[Vegan Joe]

We need a sign that says "Please do not feed the trolls."

 

Must be highly uncomfortable being perpetually butt-hurt.

 

http://bastardlogic.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/p_donut_cushion_581.jpg?w=314&h=314

[Ryofire]

Vegan Drew and Ducati, I greatly understand we're you guys are coming from. I do protest for a fact, I am a member of M.A.R.C. I don't have to justify anything to people who disrespect my homeland.

 

In regards to 1930's Germany:

 

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."

-Martin Niemoller

 

This is a rough translation from the german text, from the words of the late Pastor Martin Niemoller.

 

Pastor Martin Niemoller ironically was very anti-semetic during the early days of the holocaust. He would often preach against the jews during masses. He was german himself, and when he and several others attempted to appose Adolf Hitler later on, he was taken to the concentration camps for it. So all those times he could of spoken up, he refused to. In return all the harm that he caused to others came back to haunt him many times more.

 

So you see, Adolf Hitler during the holocaust not only targeted jews, communists, trade unionists, socialists, homosexuals, catholics, mentally handicapped people and etc, but he also targeted his own people.

 

 

Similar to how George W.Bush screwed over his own nation just so he could get his name in the history books. George W. Bush does not represent all americans.

[VeganDrew]

Vegan Drew and Ducati, I greatly understand we're you guys are coming from. I do protest for a fact, I am a member of M.A.R.C. I don't have to justify anything to people who disrespect my homeland.

 

This is a cop-out and you know it.

 

 

I don't understand the rest of your post. (If you're trying to compare us as critics of US foreign policy to Hitler killing his own people, well then go take a seat next to Vegan Joe on the "do not address" bench.)

[Ryofire]

Vegan Drew and Ducati, I greatly understand we're you guys are coming from. I do protest for a fact, I am a member of M.A.R.C. I don't have to justify anything to people who disrespect my homeland.

 

This is a cop-out and you know it.

 

 

I don't understand the rest of your post. (If you're trying to compare us as critics of US foreign policy to Hitler killing his own people, well then go take a seat next to Vegan Joe on the "do not address" bench.)

 

Of course you don't understand the rest of my post. That's something I would expect you to say. It takes a lot for me not to care about something, but whatever it is that some anti american prick like you has say in regards to justifying his own double standards, I just plain don't give a shit at this point.

 

Like I said before if you don't the United States so much then get the fuck out. Go live in a nation where they kill you for being vegan.

[VeganDrew]

Criticism is not allowed. If you don't like things the way they are you must leave.

 

That is fascism.

 

"whatever it is that some anti american prick like you has say in regards to justifying his own double standards, I just plain don't give a shit at this point."

 

That is willed ignorance.

 

Real patriots stand up for values rather than burying their head in nationalist rhetoric. You are a disgrace to the values of this country.

[blabbate]

Of course you don't understand the rest of my post. That's something I would expect you to say. It takes a lot for me not to care about something, but whatever it is that some anti american prick like you has say in regards to justifying his own double standards, I just plain don't give a shit at this point.

 

Like I said before if you don't the United States so much then get the fuck out. Go live in a nation where they kill you for being vegan.

 

"America gives you the right to think and say and believe whatever you like. So if you don't feel the same way I do on this issue, you can fuck off and leave the country." Nice.

 

You really manage to pack in the hypocrisy. It's a talent.

[Ryofire]

Criticism is not allowed. If you don't like things the way they are you must leave.

 

That is fascism.

 

"whatever it is that some anti american prick like you has say in regards to justifying his own double standards, I just plain don't give a shit at this point."

 

That is willed ignorance.

 

Real patriots stand up for values rather than burying their head in nationalist rhetoric. You are a disgrace to the values of this country.

 

You think I'm just as much of a facist as you are. That's all I really need to say to a douchebag like you. Mark Twain, a great american author, once wrote in in the adventures of Huckilberry Finn, "just because somethings right, and everyone says it's right, it doesn't make it right." Mark Twain character, Jim the slave said this. So obviously Jim was talking to Huck about slavery.

 

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/1/5/633667566176885974-roleplaying.jpg

This is a more modern version of what Mark Twain's idea. In this issue of Amazing Spider-Man, in the Civil War series, Captain America actually quotes another one of Mark Twains works. Regarding to the government, and how MArk Twain asked who really is the republic.

 

You may say that I'm ignorant, but I don't have to say anything to you in response. So fuck you and your ideas of malarchy.

[blabbate]

This is a more modern version of what Mark Twain's idea. In this issue of Amazing Spider-Man, in the Civil War series, Captain America actually quotes another one of Mark Twains works. Regarding to the government, and how MArk Twain asked who really is the republic.

Except Cap doesn't follow that up with, "Unless you feel that America is flawed in any way, in which case you can suck it and leave the country."

 

I prefer Ultimate Cap in this case, who would simply call you dumb (and probably follow it with Violence, but I don't advocate that here).

[VeganDrew]

You think I'm just as much of a facist as you are.

 

Do you even know what fascism means?

 

a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

 

That's all I really need to say to a douchebag like you.

 

I'm going to write this off as you being 15 and angry.

 

Mark Twain, a great american author, once wrote in in the adventures of Huckilberry Finn, "just because somethings right, and everyone says it's right, it doesn't make it right." Mark Twain character, Jim the slave said this. So obviously Jim was talking to Huck about slavery.

 

I agree. What's your point?

 

 

This is a more modern version of what Mark Twain's idea. In this issue of Amazing Spider-Man, in the Civil War series, Captain America actually quotes another one of Mark Twains works. Regarding to the government, and how MArk Twain asked who really is the republic.

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

 

You may say that I'm ignorant, but I don't have to say anything to you in response.

 

No, you don't have to, but you engaged the discussion and are now becoming defensive and angry that you've been presented with an exhaustive list of facts and have nothing to say about them except that you admit you're ignorant of them.

 

When people are having a discussion, and one person makes a point, the appropriate response is to agree with the point or challenge it. Yes, you can say you don't have to respond, but that's just a childish admittance that you're unable to counter it. It's being stubborn, and it defeats the purpose of logic, facts, and conversation entirely.

 

I offered you the respect of addressing your points with my own and in great detail. I even offered specific documents for you to see where I get my ideas. You then dismissed all of that, very disrespectfully, by saying that anything "anti American" (whatever that means) is not worth discussing, when you began discussing it in the first place.

 

You are actively discouraging dissent in any form and encouraging people who do not agree with the status quo to leave. Would you tell that to Martin Luther King Jr? To Frederick Douglass? To the womens' suffrage movement? To the anti-war movement?

 

If so then you are a fascist and you in fact do not believe in freedom of speech, in people running their own country, in changing anything at all.

 

So fuck you and your ideas of malarchy.

 

There is a world of joy beyond ultranationalist willed ignorance. I invite you to join us.

[blabbate]

So fuck you and your ideas of malarchy.

There is a world of joy beyond ultranationalist willed ignorance. I invite you to join us.

I'm still trying to figure out what he meant by "malarchy."

[Ryofire]

You think I'm just as much of a facist as you are.

 

Do you even know what fascism means?

 

a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

 

That's all I really need to say to a douchebag like you.

 

I'm going to write this off as you being 15 and angry.

 

Mark Twain, a great american author, once wrote in in the adventures of Huckilberry Finn, "just because somethings right, and everyone says it's right, it doesn't make it right." Mark Twain character, Jim the slave said this. So obviously Jim was talking to Huck about slavery.

 

 

 

I agree. What's your point?

 

 

This is a more modern version of what Mark Twain's idea. In this issue of Amazing Spider-Man, in the Civil War series, Captain America actually quotes another one of Mark Twains works. Regarding to the government, and how MArk Twain asked who really is the republic.

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

 

You may say that I'm ignorant, but I don't have to say anything to you in response.

 

No, you don't have to, but you engaged the discussion and are now becoming defensive and angry that you've been presented with an exhaustive list of facts and have nothing to say about them except that you admit you're ignorant of them.

 

When people are having a discussion, and one person makes a point, the appropriate response is to agree with the point or challenge it. Yes, you can say you don't have to respond, but that's just a childish admittance that you're unable to counter it. It's being stubborn, and it defeats the purpose of logic, facts, and conversation entirely.

 

I offered you the respect of addressing your points with my own and in great detail. I even offered specific documents for you to see where I get my ideas. You then dismissed all of that, very disrespectfully, by saying that anything "anti American" (whatever that means) is not worth discussing, when you began discussing it in the first place.

 

You are actively discouraging dissent in any form and encouraging people who do not agree with the status quo to leave. Would you tell that to Martin Luther King Jr? To Frederick Douglass? To the womens' suffrage movement? To the anti-war movement?

 

If so then you are a fascist and you in fact do not believe in freedom of speech, in people running their own country, in changing anything at all.

 

So fuck you and your ideas of malarchy.

 

There is a world of joy beyond ultranationalist willed ignorance. I invite you to join us.

 

I greatly believe in freedom of speech, but there's a differance between those practicing their first amendment rights and this:

 

 

I've been to Ireland we're my family is from. So, I've at least seen nations other than this country. I have japanese kanji tattooed on my right shoulder. Growing up I was always picked on for loving japanese culture, anime, food and etc. I was even told my certain memebers of my biological family, former friends and etc not to love the japanese. The reason they said this to me was, "because they started WWII." However were we any better than they were for dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

 

I understand there are those who don't love america, but my question for you is do you hate america? The reason I'm asking this is only because I if you watched the video the entire video above you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

What happens in China is the governments doing not the peoples doing. To say "the chinese are responsible for the oppression," is chinese plain racist. Like Martin Niemoller, and Nazi Germany, the chinese totalitarian government is killing it's own people. George W. Bush screwed not only Iraq, but the the US over when he believed Paul Wolfowitz, that the oil revenue would pay off the Iraq war. So basically he helped cause innocent Iraqi and American blood.

[blabbate]

I have japanese kanji tattooed on my right shoulder.

It translates as, "Purple baby fish hammock," but he doesn't know that. Sssh.

[vivalasvegans]

I'm still trying to figure out what he meant by "malarchy."

 

It's a governmental system where the rulers are black nationalists.

 

Monarchy- rule of one

Oligarchy- rule of a few elite

Malarchy- rule of Malcolm X

[Ryofire]

I'm still trying to figure out what he meant by "malarchy."

 

It's a governmental system where the rulers are black nationalists.

 

Monarchy- rule of one

Oligarchy- rule of a few elite

Malarchy- rule of Malcolm X

 

My apologies, I spelled it wrong, it's actually malarkey. It simply means nonsense, rubbish/insincere talk.

 

Human error of mispelling we all do it.

[Vegan Joe]

I don't think the KKK were really labeled terrorists until fairly recently in our history. The mainstream media of the day in the 1800's was not featuring articles about how the KKK are terrorists. Of course what they were doing was terrorism. It's taken a paradigm shift to where most accept people as people regardless of color to recognize terrorism can happen to anyone.

 

The same could be said about the Suffragists that Ducati used as his example so what's the point.

[Vegan Joe]

well then go take a seat next to Vegan Joe on the "do not address" bench.

 

Must be highly uncomfortable being perpetually butt-hurt.

 

http://bastardlogic.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/p_donut_cushion_581.jpg?w=314&h=314

[Vegan Joe]

 

Maybe Joe isn't directly insulting you, but I'm comfortable saying you seem like an idiot.

Nothing in this thread that I posted was directed at Ryofire. So the insult is all yours.

[Vegan Joe]

Vegan Drew and Ducati, I greatly understand we're you guys are coming from. I do protest for a fact, I am a member of M.A.R.C. I don't have to justify anything to people who disrespect my homeland.

 

This is a cop-out and you know it.

 

 

I don't understand the rest of your post. (If you're trying to compare us as critics of US foreign policy to Hitler killing his own people, well then go take a seat next to Vegan Joe on the "do not address" bench.)

 

Of course you don't understand the rest of my post. That's something I would expect you to say

Bingo, been here, done that. As soon a Vegandrew doesn't want to deal with you anymore. he cops out, pretty soon he'll be calling you a child so he can feel like a man.

[Vegan Joe]

Criticism is not allowed. If you don't like things the way they are you must leave.

 

That is fascism.

 

"whatever it is that some anti american prick like you has say in regards to justifying his own double standards, I just plain don't give a shit at this point."

 

That is willed ignorance.

 

Real patriots stand up for values rather than burying their head in nationalist rhetoric. You are a disgrace to the values of this country.

Criticism is all what VeganDrew is about. He read other peoples books about how bad the US is and then begins parroting those opinions. He over simplifies without any consideration of the time, the place, the situation involved, lesser of two evils for the good of some vs the good of all etc.. You'll never get past the point of him refusing to hear what you are trying to say. You'll just get to the point were he calls you a child.

[Vegan Joe]

I will have to admit Ryofire, that you're a little to patriotic for me. I love America, I been to other countries. I don't believe every action that has been done in the name of freedom and the throwing off of oppression has been strictly for those reasons but I do believe that America has an interest in helping the world to be a better place, and yes we are guilty of taking the first piece of pie, but that is human nature. Not some marxist utopia thing like some other people think it could be like,but closer to the jungle, so that if you take a mans last sandwich. he will in no way be humane, Oh well human nature. Hense the need for laws and governmental controls. (Mother Teresa being one exception).

Edited October 7, 2009 by Vegan Joe

[Vegan Joe]

Tiananmen Square massacre (are the same thing) Kent State massacre?

This is a false comparison.

[Vegan Joe]

I'm still trying to figure out what he meant by "malarchy."

 

It's a governmental system where the rulers are black nationalists.

 

Monarchy- rule of one

Oligarchy- rule of a few elite

Malarchy- rule of Malcolm X

{EDIT} Never mind, I keep forgetting, that I'm the only one who can trade blows so as to when the smoke has cleared, I don't hate anyone.

Must stem from my childlike qualities. Hey VeganDrew. (not to mention maturity).

Edited October 7, 2009 by Vegan Joe

[Vegan Joe]

OK OK OK I'm going to the gym right now.