I'm afraid to try creatine...

[Vegercize]

If you really want to be a consequent vegan : kill yourself, now

 

And then you cause pain and suffering to your friends, family and loved ones

[Nicholas_Weir]

I will let cancer take me if I get it. Not a martyr…just doing what’s right.

 

Let me guess, you've never had a serious life threatening illness, right? Perhaps it's not intentional but your attitude here is extremely condescending.

[manoka]

As far as creatine goes, I would start with 2g plus 1g of sodium bicarbonate - reportedly this way creatine is better absorbed and needs no loading phase - and then slowly increase according to what feels right for you.

Reportedly "Creapure" is vegan - and is available inexpensive too. Kre-Alkalyn might be good too - it has already an alkalising agent in it.

Your fears are only justified if it is taken in large doses.

 

...

I can't stop animal testing, even if I boycott those companies it will not change anything for the animals...

Of course, an individual doesn't change anything by boycotting.

On the other hand, those companies are testing animals only because of individuals, who are buying their products.

So which other way than boycott is there to change this?

They are far too rich and powerful for change via politics.

 

I understand the positions of both "parties" here, as both have good reasons for their points of view.

That's why it is important to respect each others morale.

This is not a matter of who's right or wrong, but of personal preference, what feels right and probably even of individual (genetic?) disposition.

 

 

@ precision female,

You deserve the highest respect for your ethics and attitude.

It is ridiculous to say that you're being selfish for avoiding the pain of feeling guilty.

Doing what feels right is the only way how life works, as it is being truthful towards oneself.

Go for it as long as you can bear it. resp. as long as it feels right for you.

 

However, the question is also, what is healthy and where starts a psychosis.

I would say, healthy is to stay within a "happy medium" or, we need to worry or to feel guilty for a healthy awareness and conscience.

 

But if you "see and hear those animals 24/7", this is doing you unnecessary harm.

It's just as imbalanced and unhealthy as a 24/7 "automatic shut off to not think about things that are too traumatic/disturbing to think about".

Both are extremes, which cause a system to become screwed up.

 

Just as some food for thought, there is a quote from a Dan Zadra:

"Worry is a misuse of imagination."

 

It would be preferable to treat your impairing PTSD, and to work on the causes of your depressions - I hope you can get an adequate psychological therapy.

 

Are you getting enough sleep and recreation?

I may be wrong, but I'm getting the impression that your health is suffering from too much pressure and/or other stresses, either from people around you or from yourself.

 

Could you improve your diet?

 

And what about natural remedies?

You should be able to get vegan versions of the following possible antidepressants, e.g.:

- St. John's Wort

- Mucuna pruriens

- Kava

- Coca

- 5-HTP

 

In possible cases of deficiency - as in situations of stress the body needs some extra nutrients:

- EPA

- Folate

- Iron

- Vitamin B12, B5, B6 and D

- SAM-e

- Phenylalanine

- Inositol

 

You probably have to experiment to find out which work for you - unless you can find some sort of a physician, who is into such treatments.

More suggestions and information you can find e.g. at http://www.raysahelian.com/depression.html.

 

All the best

manoka

[precision female]

I don't remember saying anything about a natural life....I was talking about having a right to choose a natural death without ridicule...

 

The difference between animals suffering for meds and animals dying out it the corn fields is the cruelty intent, we purposely torture the lab animals, and farm them, and they spend their lives in cages. Mice in the corn fields get a natural free life and aren't intentionally killed but its sad that it happens. Personally I find cornfield deaths just as tragic. But its the human intent to harm that makes me really angry.

 

My physical health, and life in general is actually amazing....abnormal for someone not doing well in spirit. I'm high functioning despite how I feel. Diet etc not a problem. Taking vega 100% of everything vitamin stuff etc so I'm covered there... intense 3hr workouts every day and my body shows it. Nobody in real life knows what I think or that I'm depressed. I have a great job that pays extremely well, live in my dream house in the mountains with a big garden...my external/physical life itself is perfect.

 

I've been in therapy (numerous different therapies) most of my life for PTSD/depression etc. They actually told me finally that they can't help me if I won't take medications and accept main stream society's way of thinking. I completely agree 100% a good vegan is a dead one and I battle that every day. Battle to justify staying alive...not whether I think its right to kill myself.

 

I don't avoid the pain of feeling guilty at all...guilt affects everything in my life.

 

The suffering of family and friends is incredibly minor in comparison to the reduction in animal suffering my death would have. A dozen people cry for a week or 2 versus thousands of animals not suffering in a multitude of ways becasue of my existence for the next 50 years...(and I know my brother would be stoked to get my motorcycle)...it seems like logic to me...I don't favor my life or any human life over an animal life...they're equal.

 

There are masses of people out there making a difference to animals...one less body in the crowd won't have much affect on outcome. If I was someone like Robert, or Vegan essentials maybe I'd debate whether I can help more animals than I hurt...but I'm not a person with much influence or power.

[manoka]

What if all the depressed people would work on changing whatever causes their depressions, instead of just changing their brain chemistry with chemical drugs?

 

I believe they (or we) have many of these causes in common. With combined strength and efforts a desperately needed change could be brought about.

 

Why do we allow a minority of rich and powerful to get their way on the expense of the majority?

 

But first we should get our priorities straight. We need balance and stability in the systems, a materialism-, capitalism- and socialism within sensible and healthy limits, and not on the expense of a sound nature and of our true quality of life.

 

__________________

Failure is the mother of success. - Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up. -- Chinese Proverbs

Failure is success if we learn from it. -- Malcolm S. Forbes

Failure is the tuition you pay for success. -- Walter Brunell

If you are not big enough to lose, you are not big enough to win. -- Walter Reuther

If you have made mistakes, there is always another chance for you. You may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call 'failure' is not the falling down, but the staying down. -- Mary Pickford

The greatest barrier to success is the fear of failure. -- Sven Goran Eriksson

When we begin to take our failures non-seriously, it means we are ceasing to be afraid of them. It is immense importance to learn to laugh at ourselves. -- Katherine Mansfield

If there exists no possibility of failure, then victory is meaningless. -- Robert H. Schuller

There is No Failures, Only Feedbacks!

The only real failure in life is the failure to try.

There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure. -- Colin Powell

To err is human.

Through trial and error we learn and grow.

Edited November 24, 2011 by manoka

[Richard]

I've been taking creatine for a few weeks, still have two arms and two legs, making gains. Can't say that it's having a huge impact, due to all the other factors that contribute, but certainly haven't had pain or anything negative at all

[James]

The suffering of family and friends is incredibly minor in comparison to the reduction in animal suffering my death would have. A dozen people cry for a week or 2 versus thousands of animals not suffering in a multitude of ways becasue of my existence for the next 50 years...(and I know my brother would be stoked to get my motorcycle)...it seems like logic to me...I don't favor my life or any human life over an animal life...they're equal.

 

Cry for a week or 2? Only if they don't like you much!

 

Again your posts in this thread sound very much like they're coming from someone who's been lucky enough not to experience acute life-threatening illness or to have suffered a bereavement of someone very close. If so then you're lucky, but please take a break from feeling sorry for yourself for just one minute to consider that some others aren't so fortunate.

[precision female]

James...your assumption is wrong...others said the same thing and I already responded to it...