I worked with PETA this week

[robert]

I suggest a formal letter to Peta, and you can send it care of Mike Brazell if you like, since he is one of the main coordinators. He is "PetaBodybuilder."

 

I don't mean to offend anyone, but we can post all day long on forums about what we'd like to see done (since we don't work for Peta), but a formal letter with specific suggestions, recommendations, examples, etc. including your contact information for future dialoge to Peta will probably be a lot more effective.

 

A lot more goes into it than just standing out there. There is a reason they do what the do to impact media. Even if only a few hundred people see them out there, perhaps 100,000 will read about it the next day in a newspaper and go to www.goveg.com to learn more information about what happens to animals as they are turned into "food."

 

Granted, I've only worked with Peta once, and spent a couple of days with them, but I already understand a little more why they do some of the things they do.

 

Is it all right? Of course not, it never will be, but I think they've been around long enough to know what works best, or better than other things. I'm sure they keep track of all that stuff, tactics and experiments they've done to find out what is most effective.

 

Do I support everything they do? No. But I do support them and understand they are in a position to make a tremendous impact on a lot of people. They helped me go vegan more than 10 years ago and I've been able to do a lot for veganism since then.

 

Feel free to discuss ideas here, but please take the time to send in a fomal letter with suggestions and request a clear response from them.

[Guest]

I think if PETA stopped doing these things they would dissappear like alot of organizations do...not dissappear altogether but the media wouldn't cover them at all and the majority of the public would just forget them...that leaves vegans knowing of PETA and ultra conservatives and that would leave a big part of the movement out of the loop

[PETAbodybuilder]

If any of you want to follow what robert said on here:

 

Mike Brazell

PETA

IGC-VEGAN

501 Front ST

Norfolk, VA 23510

 

or you can reach me at: [email protected]

 

757-622-7382 is our office number.

[robert]

Thanks Mike,

 

I was just about to post the address, but you beat me too it and provided more info.

 

Thanks.

 

Everyone, please feel free to send the fomal letters and remember to request a response. I hope it all goes well. We can make an impact and influence how PETA and other groups move forward.

[compassionategirl]

Too often we are criticized for what we do, but no options are given that would be a comperable way of getting the message out to the masses... What do you think would be effective...

 

LIke I suggested earlier, Mike, I think Kathryn's suggestion is a fanstastic one. Have a billboard or campaign that juxtaposes beautiful big brown bovine eyes, with beautiful big brown human eyes. Not sure what a good caption for this would be, but the juxtaposition I think may be very effective. Cows have eyes that are so similar to beautiful brown human eyes...

[PETAbodybuilder]

I def agree that it is a wonderful idea...

 

There are so many things, that all of us can do for the animals... and we love it when we are given suggestions... I cant promise that we will use all of them, but you never know... and/or we can help get your ideas into hands that will use them... we have contacts all over the place, and I love hearing from activsts... Keep them rolling and thanks again for the ideas!!!!!

 

Mike

PETA

[robert]

Great ideas......and if you guys want. I can sort through the thread in the near future to extract the ideas, and send them in a formal letter myself. I think it will do better when they receive it, maybe even carry extra weight coming from me They are big supporters of Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness. I've even heard they have our Fit Vegan Calendar on the wall, and Irgrid and others have our DVD.

 

[_raVen_]

Put massive amounts of money into creating/hiring lobbyists

 

Send healthy-eating athletes on tour around the world, showing how vegans can be healthy and eat right, and be strength athletes as well as bodybuilders on a vegan diet and regimen. Use a variety of athletes -- strongmen, endurance, bodybuilders, etc., doing demos, comps, etc.

 

Contact local public tv stations to fund/air intelligently designed documentaries or diaries, etc. Fund various vegans to keep a vegan journey diary or film it and send it in to the various pbs (public tv stations).

 

Put money into tv commercials.

 

Get some of the Hollywood friends Peta has accumulated to do a project on a large scale -- a film, an event, a tv show.

 

That's just off the top of my head. There are a ton of things Peta can do besides scraping the bottom of the barrel and exploiting human beings. and there is enough money, based just on what I see Peta doing. If they stopped the negative stuff, they'd have enough for endeavors for real change.

 

Next:

Stop sending contributors wasteful, annoying envelopes stuffed with crap asking for money every two weeks. And stop putting those stupid nickels in there -- you're not getting anywhere with that. People don't like to be manipulated into things. And they don't like to feel they are being guilted into anything.

 

Stop exploiting women.

[PETAbodybuilder]

We do many of the things that you mention... We do contact TV stations, we do send out PSA's, we work with groups like veganbodybuilding to promote athletes (we have a new web feature called buff vegans coming out soon), and we do a lot of stuff behind the scene... We host Gala events that the celebrities attend and get to interact with activists... We host conferences that help individuals become better activists...

 

Our focus is on Animal Rights. That is why there are amazing groups and organizations like veganbodybuilidng to focus on the nutrition, fitness, and athlete part of veganism. We send many people to this site and others if the concern or the issue is out of our scope.

 

The idea, as noted before is that we have to get the attention of those who would otherwise not want the information. The women that we have at our demonstrations are all volunteers who love to do what they do for the animals. We are not just limited to having women do these demos, as we have had men in the same position (myself included). The idea is to get the message and the information into as many hands as possible. If we get one psa on PBS, x many people will see it... if we get a photo in New York Times, and then in an AP wire, it will be seen by millions- internationally. We have to approach this at what would be the best in getting the message out. If you ever have the opportunity to attend one of these demos, I encourage you to do so. You will see it from a differnt perspective, as Robert noted earlier.

 

We do appreciate your ideas, and keep them rolling...

[_raVen_]

I'm not going to argue with you, and this will be my last post about this issue: You are obviously not effective with lobbying (which I know of no evidence), nor tv shows, commercials, or movies. Putting more effort, creativity and money in the right places will get you farther than putting a little everywhere.

 

Glad to here you are putting more into web stuff, that is an effective tool.

 

There is never a right time to exploit people, and you can deny it's exploitaion all day long and it won't make it so.

You should not exploit women not because the question is "what alternative is there?" You should not exploit women because it is the wrong thing to do, PERIOD.

And just because someone chooses to exploit themselves, doesn't make it any less wrong, nor damaging.

 

You have no idea what I have seen or done, so I don't appreciate your assumption that I haven't "seen." I've seen quite enough to form my opinion.

 

ETA: Also, the reason you are not effective is because you are not respected. By your sexist campaigns and other offensive acts you isolate tons of important would-be converts.

If you were a respectable organization, you would have people clamoring to put on the world stage, pitch their products, give you money, etc., etc.

[PETAbodybuilder]

I am def not arguing with you, but I do not know what your background is, and I am addressing the issuse and concern you are raising here in this post.

 

This is just an issue that we will just have to agree to disagree on. I apologize if you felt it as an attack, but I am just offering up the an explanation to issues you addressed.

[_raVen_]

Okay, one last post

 

I did not write you "attacked" me. I wrote don't assume what I have seen or haven't seen, that's all; nothing more than that.

 

I also don't see why my background has anything to do with this. I'm writing my opinion and gave suggestions as you asked.

[robert]

These are all really good ideas. I will start compiling multiple letters to send out sometime in the near future.

 

Perhaps I'll post them here so others can add input before I mail them out.

 

Thanks all for taking the time to think of things for PETA to consider. And thanks PETA (PetaBodybuilder) for opening up to suggestions.

 

We appreciate it.

[Jay]

I don't have time to give my full suggestion right now.. or really reply to what was said...

 

Basically... focus on the most thoughtful 10% of people. Try to get them to turn vegan. Once you have 10% vegan. Then the other 90% will very easily:

1. Know what the word means at least!

2. Know it's not bad for you health, know you can be strong

3. Factory farming, environmental concerns, etc.

 

Once 10% are vegan, the other 90% will know these things simply by word of mouth.

 

Getting that 10% can be done without worrying so much about breaking the MSM censorship. (Being on the far left politically I know all about MSM censorship. In complex political issues, there is no solution other than breaking this censorship. With veganism it's just not as important as it's just really not that complicated.)

 

When instead you have Rodman posing nude, you are turning off that "thoughtful" 10%.

 

I'm not trying to be elitist. I'm not saying forget the other 90%. I'm saying that veganism just hasn't gotten off the ground yet. (Although it seems to be slowly doing better.) I'm saying, at least at this point in time, money is being wasted trying to appeal to the people who are the most conformist and least likely to become vegan.

 

In appealing to this "thoughtful" 10%, you can throw the sex stuff out the window. They don't want that. You can mostly quit worrying about breaking into the MSM news. A few adds and some quality material; movies, good music, etc is what is needed.

 

You know, what percentage of vegans even became vegan because of PETA? Obviously some. But it doesn't seem like that many.... But then my experience is limited in this.

[robert]

Good ideas Jay, lots to think about there. I think we can make some pretty good progress in this thread with everyone's ideas.

 

Thanks.

[compassionategirl]

You know, what percentage of vegans even became vegan because of PETA? Obviously some. But it doesn't seem like that many.... But then my experience is limited in this.

 

I disagree. I think it is more than "some" and you havent given PETA enough credit there. Of course, I have no stats at my fingertips to back that up, but most people I correspond with or interact with who are vegan seem to have been at least partially influenced in that direction by PETA (albeit through PETA literature or meet your meat, not through ads that some people here have defined as sexist, exploitative of people, etc).

[AllIveEverTouched]

I became vegan because of PETA and I am 100% of the population that matters so

 

 

I don't feel that willful display of the human body as a sexual object is exploitation but maybe I just have a different perspective on things. I feel like exploitation has become such a dirty word when in reality it happens every day and the moment a woman puts on makeup or a man exercises to look good they're exploiting themselves (hey, in my eyes at least). I just don't see the harm.

 

I like PETA because they make veganism seem fun and eclectic. If people see that at the expense of being immature, it doesn't take much to point to all the research that PETA has done to back up their immature tactics.

 

 

I'd rather reach the on-the-fence liberal types than worry about farty conservatives who most likely aren't going to change no matter what you say to them. And I'd much rather piss them off and look "cool" to the younger generations anyway. I guess I'm just a punk.

 

But I'm a vegan punk

[bronco]

Good ideas Jay, lots to think about there. I think we can make some pretty good progress in this thread with everyone's ideas.

So you agree with Jay that PETA should stop using objectifying images of women (and men) to promote AR? Glad to hear. I certainly agree with Jay .

[robert]

I think there have been a lot of good ideas and I look forward to composing something for PETA to read.

 

As I said, I'll preview some of the letters here. Obviously not everyone will agree with the final outcome of the letter, but it's just something I'll put together, anyone can write whatever they want on their own. I just don't think anyting will happen based on forum posts; a formal letter with request of response will be more effective.

 

But all the discussion is good to get ideas flowing from all different perspectives and I'm sure we'll generate some thoughtful letters with good feedback and suggestions.

 

Thanks.

[bronco]

I don't feel that willful display of the human body as a sexual object is exploitation but maybe I just have a different perspective on things.

Yes, you have a different perspective on thing. The problem is that the more women are displayed as sexual objects in advertisements etc, the more women are seen primarily as sexual objects in other contexts as well. This will affect most or all women, not only the ones that are actually in the comercials, so one can definitely discuss the willfullness of it.

 

I feel like exploitation has become such a dirty word

Well...

( from dictionary.com)

Exploitation

1. The act of employing to the greatest possible advantage: exploitation of copper deposits.

2. Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes: exploitation of unwary consumers.

3. An advertising or a publicity program.

 

I think in these contexts the second meaning is the one referred to, and using someone for selfish purposes is not a good thing, no?

 

when in reality it happens every day and the moment a woman puts on makeup or a man exercises to look good they're exploiting themselves (hey, in my eyes at least). I just don't see the harm.

Nope, see above, 'Utilization of another person or group' ie you cant exploit yourself. But I agree that it is problematic that women and men feel they have to put on makeup, do training etc, for no other purpose than to make themselves look good.

 

I like PETA because they make veganism seem fun and eclectic. If people see that at the expense of being immature, it doesn't take much to point to all the research that PETA has done to back up their immature tactics.

The problem is that to some people they rather make veganism seem shallow and stupid.

 

I'd rather reach the on-the-fence liberal types than worry about farty conservatives who most likely aren't going to change no matter what you say to them. And I'd much rather piss them off and look "cool" to the younger generations anyway. I guess I'm just a punk.

I dont see pissing of conservatives as a problem, being pissed off by any progressive ideas is what makes them conservatives . I think it is far worse that they piss off radical, antisexist people.

 

It also seems PETA is pretty bad at giving meaningfull answers to this kind of critisism. I would like to think they have some analysis of what they are doing, but they seem unwilling to share what exactly they think regarding the sexism .

[_raVen_]

I disagree with you, bronco that people cannot exploit themselves (as I wrote already.

I do agree with most of the rest of your thoughtful post.

 

"... it is problematic that women and men feel they have to put on makeup, do training etc, for no other purpose than to make themselves look good."

 

But I like working out and I like lipstick sometimes

 

I have no problem with aesthetics; it is actually quite natural for the mating game. Human animals are the same as many other animals in that they use color and physical attributes to attract a mate. Birds, for example use their plumage to compete with others to win the affections of a prospective mate . They stick out their chests to look biggest, they strut around, they fly in beautiful patterns -- all to impress.

I don't think this is exploitation in the sense we are referring here...But I realize you are referring to the destructive evolution (for lack of a better word) of our mating rituals dictated by a warped society which hoists standards of non-realistic goals and/or expectations upon us (mostly women). It has just become so damaging to all humans, really, but especially women.

At least, I think that's what you meant...

 

And, interestingly, there are differences: in most non-human animals, it is the male that has to do the impressing with physical attributes, while it's women in the human animal group; yet it is the same in that the human males (traditionally) have had to do the initial and general impressing.

[bronco]

I disagree with you, bronco that people cannot exploit themselves (as I wrote already.

Well, since this doesnt really fit with the definition of the word (the definition I found on dicitonary.com that is), please explain what it would mean to exploit one self?

 

I do agree with most of the rest of your thoughtful post.

Well, thats pretty good then .

 

"... it is problematic that women and men feel they have to put on makeup, do training etc, for no other purpose than to make themselves look good."

But I like working out and I like lipstick sometimes

Guess I didnt word that very carefully. I dont see anything wrong with people training and using makeup if they feel like it, freedom of choice is good most of the time. It does get problematic though when people feel they have to do it, not because they like it but because they need to 'fit in', ie when the standards of the society in some ways limits peoples choices. Of course this is not only limited to looks related things, but relates to a lot of things in life.

 

I don't think this is exploitation in the sense we are referring here...

I dont think so either, and I didnt write that. What I meant was that even if its not exploitation, it can still be problematic.

 

But I realize you are referring to the destructive evolution (for lack of a better word) of our mating rituals dictated by a warped society which hoists standards of non-realistic goals and/or expectations upon us (mostly women). It has just become so damaging to all humans, really, but especially women.

At least, I think that's what you meant...

Yes, thats pretty much it.

[Guest]

I have a hard time calling it sexism when the people doing it are volunteers.

Its not demeaning to them so I don't see a problem with it...its all relative. If men took the right to pose nearly nude away from women just as many women would be against it.

[AllIveEverTouched]

Yes, you have a different perspective on thing. The problem is that the more women are displayed as sexual objects in advertisements etc, the more women are seen primarily as sexual objects in other contexts as well. This will affect most or all women, not only the ones that are actually in the comercials, so one can definitely discuss the willfullness of it.

 

Hmm and what about the men doing the same thing? Why is there no concern over men becoming sex objects?

 

And call me crazy but why can't the actions of an individual speak simply for that individual themselves?

 

using someone for selfish purposes is not a good thing, no?

 

Depends. If two people are using each other for selfish reasons is that a bad thing? If I go to a store to buy a premade product I am giving money to have someone make something for me. That person is taking money for something that they do. Both acts are selfish but is there any harm?

 

 

But I agree that it is problematic that women and men feel they have to put on makeup, do training etc, for no other purpose than to make themselves look good.

 

I don't think it's problematic.

 

The problem is that to some people they rather make veganism seem shallow and stupid.

 

Those are the people who aren't actually paying any attention to what is going on and themselves are stupid and treating the issue superficially...

 

I think it is far worse that they piss off radical, antisexist people.

 

Maybe.

 

It also seems PETA is pretty bad at giving meaningfull answers to this kind of critisism. I would like to think they have some analysis of what they are doing, but they seem unwilling to share what exactly they think regarding the sexism.

 

Ah but no answer may BE an answer, much like how PETA will launch demos when a company DOESN'T respond to them...

 

 

 

I take it all lightheartedly. I can't make everybody follow my beliefs all I can do is be myself and help when someone wants to listen.

[Jay]

 

Hmm and what about the men doing the same thing? Why is there no concern over men becoming sex objects?

Hey, did you get anything out of Bronco giving you the definition of "exploit"? Because I noticed you had no idea what the word even meant.

 

Anyway to answer your question, perhaps you hadn't noticed by here on planet earth, women are routinely treated worse then men. They are treated like objects. They are "objectified". Their worth is often determined by the shape and size of their ass. As men are treated better than women, it of course makes sense to fix the biggest problems first.

 

I think it is far worse that they piss off radical, antisexist people.

 

Maybe.

Earlier you showed that you had no idea what all the fuss was about when you equated farty conservatives with being anti-sexist/anti-exploitation. Antisexist people are almost always the very liberal types that are "on the fence". You've seem to have misunderstood and equated people asserting "exploitation" with prudish religious conservative types. You couldn't be any farther off the mark.

 

It also seems PETA is pretty bad at giving meaningfull answers to this kind of critisism. I would like to think they have some analysis of what they are doing, but they seem unwilling to share what exactly they think regarding the sexism.

 

Ah but no answer may BE an answer, much like how PETA will launch demos when a company DOESN'T respond to them...

Yes, but we are fellow vegans!!!! Hmmm, perhaps we should treat PETA the way they have been treating these other companies....

 

I am curious to know exactly what PETA did that caused you to go vegan? Was it that they made being vegan fun? How exactly is veganism fun for you thanks to PETA?