CollegeB Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 So at work today I met someone that had been vegan for 3 yrs. We talked a little bit about why she is not vegan. They really didnt have a great reason. The first being a nihilistic world view. But they also tried to get me with this reason: In fields for grain there are usually animals. So when the grain is harvested the animals get killed. This individual, being a primitive anarchist, failed to notice that the reason the animals are killed is mechanized farming. Anyhow they used this to say that if animals are killed inadvertantly because one eats grains then why bother to attempt to save animals, you might as well just have only one killed instead of several possible animals in the field. I told them either way an animal(s) dies, and that over 50% of the grain grown is fed to the animal that would be killed to eat, so its actually double the killing. Anyone else been given some really lame excuses to not be vegan anymore? But anyways this was just something they had read, as far as I could tell they were still vegan, they even ate some of my lunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Bah, that grain thing is used by people who want to sell out. I can't think what their real reason is. Obviously, more grain is used up to feed an animal for you to then eat, then if you just eat the grain yourself. Obviously, you don't eat the same 'grain' as an animal would, but the point is that more animals will be harvestulated in the process of you getting your meat, than if you didn't have it. The only person that I know who was vegan and then sold out did it because she was pregnant. She said she got cravings for cheese I think. Some people might have sympathy for her, and as I can't know what it's like to be pregnant, I don't think it's quite right to really judge someone based on this. However, it's been many years since she gave birth, and she still hasn't gone back to veganism :/ so I think she is a sellout, and just wanted an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V VII Hero Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 meh ive heard so many excuses. its extremely lame. ive heard the grain one and the cheese one before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhobson Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Moving to a Hare Krishna farm for four years. Oops, that was me. Thanks to the guys over at Vegan Fitness for kicking my ass last year and making me vegan again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 The grain scenario is a good example of why we should not focus on personal purity and instead underscore that veganism is about reducing suffering. Beyond that, killing an animal specifically for its meat is a drastically different motivation than accidentally killing an animal as a byproduct of harvesting grain. I don't know why people insist on making it seem like vegans are hypocritical for accidentally killing insects and other small animals simply just by living. If I may, LAME! I knew someone who stopped being vegetarian because of anemia. I have read, though, that leafy-green vegetables can be a much more efficient form of iron. It also seems that if you're anemic, you would be taking some type of medication or iron supplement, so it seems that could still coincide with a vegetarian diet. Recently I spoke with someone who said he's not vegetarian because he thinks it's natural to eat meat. Although I tend to agree that it might be natural for humans to eat small amounts of flesh sparingly, as chimpanzees do, I think it's funny that amid all our scientific and technological advancements, people still try to cling to this naturalistic attitude - mostly only when it comes to defending their flesh-eating habits. And there's nothing necessarily "natural" about the way we harvest our foood, especially when we are talking about factory farms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I love nature, that's why I don't go to the dentists, I don't wipe my butt crack when I've done a poo, I don't brush my teeth, I don't cut my hair, I don't have a house (I live in a cave and it's awesome), I don't use the internet, I don't wear clothes (I just wear animal fur), if I get a disease I deal with it (die from it), and if anyone bothers me I just beat them to death with a club. Nature is so awesome! My IQ also just lowered to a record of 32!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhobson Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I love nature, that's why I don't go to the dentists, I don't wipe my butt crack when I've done a poo, I don't brush my teeth, I don't cut my hair, I don't have a house (I live in a cave and it's awesome), I don't use the internet, I don't wear clothes Sounds a lot like the 10,000 hippies I camped out with last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Richard, some of that seems a bit extreme. But I will admit, I don't use the Internet either. I'm actually working to take down our pervasive techno-industrial civilization. I have a Web site for my campaign, if you're interested in learning more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Richard, some of that seems a bit extreme. But I will admit, I don't use the Internet either. I'm actually working to take down our pervasive techno-industrial civilization. I have a Web site for my campaign, if you're interested in learning more. Sure, I will be happy to send out chain-emails to get people interested in our long-term goals and logical level-headed outlook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie kray Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Recently I spoke with someone who said he's not vegetarian because he thinks it's natural to eat meat. Although I tend to agree that it might be natural for humans to eat small amounts of flesh sparingly, as chimpanzees do, i posted something about that arguement in this thread if you want to check it out. in essence, it says that chimps hunt and eat meat seasonally, when their natural food supply is on shortage, not because it is a natural part of their diet. if they had their natural food supply all year round, they probably would not resort to eating meat. but humans are not at the mercy of the seasons, we can have vegan foods year round, so there is no need for eating meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I usually calmly point out to those kinds of people that humans aren't chimps. or I say 'Well maybe you are happy to compare yourself to a wild animal who drinks its own urine...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 The only person that I know who was vegan and then sold out did it because she was pregnant. She said she got cravings for cheese I think. Some people might have sympathy for her, and as I can't know what it's like to be pregnant, I don't think it's quite right to really judge someone based on this. However, it's been many years since she gave birth, and she still hasn't gone back to veganism :/ so I think she is a sellout, and just wanted an excuse. I agree Richard. If your friend had returned to a vegan lifestyle after her pregnancy, maybe I would feel differently, but from what you have said, it appears that "sell-out" is an appropriate description. I HATE people who sell-out the animals. I literally think that animals could cry over sell outs if they understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 That's right compash. It makes me sad that people stop being veg*n, and it makes me think that maybe they never really cared to start with. Something really intense would have to happen to me in order for me to stop being vegan, I can't imagine it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Recently I spoke with someone who said he's not vegetarian because he thinks it's natural to eat meat. Although I tend to agree that it might be natural for humans to eat small amounts of flesh sparingly, as chimpanzees do, i posted something about that arguement in this thread if you want to check it out. in essence, it says that chimps hunt and eat meat seasonally, when their natural food supply is on shortage, not because it is a natural part of their diet. if they had their natural food supply all year round, they probably would not resort to eating meat. but humans are not at the mercy of the seasons, we can have vegan foods year round, so there is no need for eating meat. The notion that humans are "natural" carnivores enrages me because the anthropological evidence, as well as common sense, weigh more heavily in favour of the notion that humans are NOT physiologically designed for meat consumption. One of my favourite cartoonists had written a very short and insightful blurb that raises all the compelling evidence in one short, concise paragraph. Click and read: http://bizarro.com/vegan/vegan_carnivores.htm Actually, I think I will make this a new post. peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veggymeggy Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 I love that cartoon link! It made me laugh....especially "Put a two year old in a playpen with an apple and a rabbit. If it plays with the apple and eats the rabbit, you've got a carnivore." So I saved it, and now I'll be passing it on to others. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 I love that cartoon link! It made me laugh....especially "Put a two year old in a playpen with an apple and a rabbit. If it plays with the apple and eats the rabbit, you've got a carnivore." So I saved it, and now I'll be passing it on to others. Thanks! Ya, Bizarro is an awesome talented cartoonist that has used his talents to help animals. I really like the baby in the playpen test too. Most meat eaters miss the point of it though - that our "need" for meat is socially constructed, NOT innate or primordial - not something that humans are born with. It is a taught, learned "need." By the way veggie meggy, thanks for passing that one on to others. Hopefully, it will get people thinking about better, more natural diet!!! you rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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