andgbr Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I don't know, i was wrong, then. I knew Saddan was a terrible man, but you know, he had ''power'' to put the religious wars in order that now are constant without him, but to compensate he did all kinds of sick things. Well, thanks for informing me. You are right, i should've done a little more research next time. I will try to find some sense in something before posting next time. ok? P.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I'm not trying to personally attack you man, just make you think. You're cool by me. And as much as it sounds so, I don't agree with Bush on a lot of topics, the world is not ideal, never will be. There's good and bad about everything, there can be corruption in any political party. It just struck me when you said Iraq was better with him. That is a harsh thing to say. Which I think you just found out... The situation in Iraq may not be good, but certainly has to be better than that. Sorry if I hurt you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Micheal I think we all want something similar. People are corrupt, politicians are people therefore politicans are corrupt. And thats not always the truth. Andgbr I am pretty sure bin laden was not on US soil during 9/11. Members of his family were. Zach his fuel cell dreams will never come to fruition, and the electric car has been smashed since Bush was in office. I'm not blaming him but he has very little to do with technological progress. And honestly if he's in support of something I have no reason to believe it will be to the benefit of the nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 the electric car has been smashed since Bush was in office. he has very little to do with technological progress. ???? Progress has been alright, could be better, but it's not up to the president to come up with an electric car... http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/06/chevrolet-volt-picture-surfaces-at-the-chicago-tribune/ http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/07/detroit-auto-show-its-here-gms-plug-in-hybrid-is-the-chevy-v/ Not completely electric, but this is. http://www.teslamotors.com/ I'll agree though, there could have easily been electric cars by now.. The technology is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andgbr Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I'm not trying to personally attack you man, just make you think. You're cool by me. And as much as it sounds so, I don't agree with Bush on a lot of topics, the world is not ideal, never will be. There's good and bad about everything, there can be corruption in any political party. It just struck me when you said Iraq was better with him. That is a harsh thing to say. Which I think you just found out... The situation in Iraq may not be good, but certainly has to be better than that. Sorry if I hurt you. hurt me? No, it's alright, it's nice to argument with friends sometimes. i kinda felt stupid, but it wasn't your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I'm not trying to personally attack you man, just make you think. You're cool by me. And as much as it sounds so, I don't agree with Bush on a lot of topics, the world is not ideal, never will be. There's good and bad about everything, there can be corruption in any political party. It just struck me when you said Iraq was better with him. That is a harsh thing to say. Which I think you just found out... The situation in Iraq may not be good, but certainly has to be better than that. Sorry if I hurt you. hurt me? No, it's alright, it's nice to argument with friends sometimes. i kinda felt stupid, but it wasn't your fault. You're right about some things, just make sure you research both sides of everything, form your own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhobson Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I'm not trying to personally attack you man, just make you think. You're cool by me. And as much as it sounds so, I don't agree with Bush on a lot of topics, the world is not ideal, never will be. There's good and bad about everything, there can be corruption in any political party. It just struck me when you said Iraq was better with him. That is a harsh thing to say. Which I think you just found out... The situation in Iraq may not be good, but certainly has to be better than that. Sorry if I hurt you. Bush is far worse than Hussein ever was. Bush's war has killed approximately 150,000 Iraqi civilians, more than 30,000 just in 2006 according to UN figures released this week. If you're going to suggest that someone do some research, how about starting with your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Bush is far worse than Hussein ever was. Bush's war has killed approximately 150,000 Iraqi civilians, more than 30,000 just in 2006 according to UN figures released this week. If you're going to suggest that someone do some research, how about starting with your own? "Iraq Body Count, an antiwar group that keeps a running tally of Iraqi civilian deaths, reports that the daily toll under the occupation falls in the range of 25 to 28 per day. But under Saddam's rule, the death toll averaged three times that, including 600,000 civilian executions recorded by the Documental Center for Human Rights, and the 100,000 Kurds killed during the Anfal operation." Let's recap. Iraq today vs. Iraq under Saddam: * 3 times less civilian deaths per day * 60% decline in infant mortality * A public that believes in democracy * "Surging" participation in all elections * Doubling of oil revenues * Improved access to clean water, health care and education * Free print and broadcast press Again, to recap: * The number of Iraqi boots on the ground has surpassed that of Coalition forces * Coalition casualties are down sharply * Casualties among Iraqi police and army units are down sharply * Attacks on other soft targets are down * Iraqis believe their own security forces are winning the fight against the terrorists "If Iraqis listened to American media," said Lt. Indyk, "they'd hear that their economy is wrecked and that their services are in shambles. They'd hear that they are less safe now than before the war, and that they are religious fanatics who demand a theocracy. But they don't get their news on Iraq through the Western media. They live there. And they say the opposite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelicanAndrew Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 There's more like 600,000 civilian deaths caused by our armed forces. Don't forget the reason that infant mortality is down is because in taking over the country we dropped our trade embargo that killed half a million kids in the 90s. Oil revenue is up, but who is actually getting the money? The people? Yea right. Last time trickle down economics worked was NEVER. Quantity doesn't mean quality. Many of those iraqi forces are part of the civil war. There are no terrorists. Improved access to clean water etc. just means that Halliburton is making bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 About the electric cars, we had them in the early turn of the century, and a friend of mine said the first race cars were actually electric. The internal combustion engine was something that was popularized with Henry Ford. Again Bush has little to do with technology. $1 billion will not create a hydrogen economy, and the fuel cell vehicle was already a reality before he even got involved. I however am biased and believe markets shift on their own and people are creative without government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 About the electric cars, we had them in the early turn of the century, and a friend of mine said the first race cars were actually electric. The internal combustion engine was something that was popularized with Henry Ford. Again Bush has little to do with technology. $1 billion will not create a hydrogen economy, and the fuel cell vehicle was already a reality before he even got involved. I however am biased and believe markets shift on their own and people are creative without government. I pretty much agree with you. I think Electric cars will happen soon... Better late than never... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelicanAndrew Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 They already happened in Cali and then GMC shut it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Of course they did, they would make no money off of the cars in the long run. Govt would have lost a lot of tax $$, and some energy industries would have also faced losses. Job losses too in auto factories for parts and the cars. The present auto industry requires disposal. It is indeed unsustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelicanAndrew Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 They could have trained those workers to make new parts for the electric cars or to become mechanics for them. It's a beast to change the direction of an industry. It really boils down to people being far too greedy and not rational at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 They could have trained those workers to make new parts for the electric cars or to become mechanics for them. It's a beast to change the direction of an industry. It really boils down to people being far too greedy and not rational at all. The only problem with that is electric cars will be far more reliable and a mechanic will very rarely be needed. There would be some job loss, that's a definite thing. Oil companies profits would not completely diminish, because planes and contruction equipment, etc will still be fuel powered. One Question I thought of is this, and maybe you guys have some good answers. What will countries that depend on selling oil for their economy do when the demand goes down so much? It's something I've been thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveliberate Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 you people are all american traitors and it makes me sick. why don't you all move to france if you love it so much. go USA You volunteering to front me the money for the move? Naw, I didn't think so because yr really just trying to hide the fact that YOU are actually a cheese-eating surrender monkey aka "French" agent trying to confuse us with the metric system & stuff like that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhobson Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Iraqis killed: 655,000Violence in Iraq: Facts and figures (BBC)Displaced Iraqis: 3.4 million Iraqis have fled their homes (UN)Cost of war: United StatesOpinion poll: 90% of Iraqis say Iraq better under Saddam tyrannyOpinion poll: 71% of Iraqis want occupation troops out Zack, I don't know where you are getting your facts and figures. Even with the very conservative UN estimate of 30,000 Iraqi civilians dead in 2006, that is 82 per day, not the 25 you quote. Even if Sadaam did kill 3 tims more, which is doubtful at best, the US is still causing more deaths. And as for these "facts" * Doubling of oil revenues* Improved access to clean water, health care and education* Free print and broadcast press I'm sorry, but they are laughable at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andgbr Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 About the electric cars, i saw a documentary called ''Who killed the electric car?'', the documentary is about the EV ( GM's electric car ), they were released in 1996 i believe ( i have a terrible memory.. lol ).. but for several reasons they had to recall all the cars.. the car seemed to be pretty economic and a great help for our environment, but sadly, it didn't lasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Check this out people. http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18086/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 and they did it all without the help of the president. Man i had no idea that was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 http://mises.org/story/2450 just a little something on government corruption. It's not really a news story though, so dont get the wrong idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andgbr Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 and they did it all without the help of the president. Man i had no idea that was possible. the president can only make things easier or harder.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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