Proper squat form

[damdaman]

I'm suddenly wondering if I'm doing squats properly. I'm curious how you guys do them.

 

How far apart are your feet spaced? Do your turn your toes forward (knees out) so the feet are parallel to each other? Do you go as low as you can without bending your back, or till your thighs are parallel to the floor, or higher?

 

Thanks for input.

[chrisjs]

I generally do the powerlifting squat style where my feet are a good amount farther apart than my shoulders. Therefore my legs are V shaped if you were to look at me top-down when I'm in a lower position. I was never able to get down low with my legs parallel.

 

Your feet should be out at the same angle as your legs/knees. You do *not* want to twist your ankle.

 

If you're not going at least parallel it's for shit. I'll generally get a bit below parallel on lighter weights but only barely break parallel for heavy sets. I see people go so low that their butt nearly touches their feet. I don't have the flexibility in the ankle for that...

[Octopussoir]

Only do whats comfortable! There is a great book I read a while ago called 10 New Rules of Weightlifting and squats had its own chapter. The author talks about going lighter and trying to go parallel. He explained it w

ill take longer to go heavier, but it will be more beneficial this way.

 

In a years time I went from doing the bar for 10reps to 315 for 5 reps parallel. It can be done, but dont rush it. Also, work your hip flexors!! The stronger they are the more youll be able to go down...most guys dont work their hip flexors specifically, so its a diff thing to hit thats beneficial.

[VeganEssentials]

There's not a right or wrong way to do squats, as much of your personal form must be based on what is comfortable for your body type. Yes, there are "form problems" such as rounding your back, knees buckling inward or other things that should be corrected if noticed, but as far as foot spacing and angle (though you typically do NOT want both feet straight ahead, a slight angle at minimum is a good thing), everyone needs to figure out what works best for them.

 

Most people aren't going to find that a mile-wide power stance is ideal (going really wide has a whole different feel to it than standard width squats), so the average squatter will likely want to go with a stance that's anywhere from slightly beyond shoulder width to slightly less. Some people are more comfortable with a fairly wide stance, others a narrower one, and varying the stance will change how your body works on the lift. Again, as long as you're comfortable and keeping proper form in the areas that can make things go sour when left out of check, you can squat wide or narrow so long as the movement is comfortable and nothing gets out of balance.

 

Regarding foot angle, some people have their feet pointing out at nearly 30-40 degrees from when they are facing forward (not all that common for such a wide angle), but usually, you'll see people squat with anywhere from a 10-25 degree angle out for foot placement and they consider that to be most comfortable. Again, it's all about what keeps you comfortable and will keep your form tight throughout the movement - if one foot angle tends to leave you less stable than another, go with the one that feels solid.

 

For depth, without question, squatting to parallel or below is the way to go. A squat that is cut short of hitting the point where your upper thigh is parallel to the floor is not going to do as much for you as going deeper, anywhere from parallel to rock bottom where you can't go any lower. Too many people cut their squats short simply because they can handle more weight - it's been said that for every inch below parallel you go, it gets about 5% more difficult to get back up and complete the rep (simply put, you can handle less weight with a rock-bottom squat than one where you are a few inches higher). I try to go just a bit below parallel when squatting, but it never hurts to incorporate squatting as deep as possible once in a while (or, for some people, permanently.) There's a time and a place to do partial squats, but save that for a while down the road when you've got your form down and don't have to worry about figuring out what's most comfortable for you.

 

Learning to squat properly with the form that is ideal for your body is a journey that takes a while, but once you get things down, you're set for life (or, until you get into a different aspect of lifting where you want to change your form to be more competitive )

 

Finally, remember the golden rules - no rounded back, try to keep your head up, don't let the weight knock you forward too far so that you're using all lower back to get it going upright (depending on technique, some lower back work may come into play, but don't let it be the basis of how you complete a rep), and KEEP TIGHT!

 

I'm suddenly wondering if I'm doing squats properly. I'm curious how you guys do them.

 

How far apart are your feet spaced? Do your turn your toes forward (knees out) so the feet are parallel to each other? Do you go as low as you can without bending your back, or till your thighs are parallel to the floor, or higher?

 

Thanks for input.

[DV]

THANK YOU for all the great replies to this thread! As some of you know, I have had a very difficult time with squatting. I've done some research and already found some of the advice you've given - but I also learned more from you.

 

I work out with a trainer - the third who has tried to train me to squat. Each of them tried to get my toes straight (hurts my knees) and my legs shoulder width or less (really knocks me off balance). I wish I tried training with some of you instead! I believe that my hip flexors are probably weaker than I imagined in the past. I am now focusing only on form (my own comfortable form) with extremely light weight.

[xveganjoshx]

The squatting rule of thumb: Break at the hips, not at the knees.

It deserves to be repeated: Break at the hips, not at the knees.

[damdaman]

In a years time I went from doing the bar for 10reps to 315 for 5 reps parallel. It can be done, but dont rush it. Also, work your hip flexors!! The stronger they are the more youll be able to go down...most guys dont work their hip flexors specifically, so its a diff thing to hit thats beneficial.

 

What are good exercises for the hip flexors?

[damdaman]

The squatting rule of thumb: Break at the hips, not at the knees.

It deserves to be repeated: Break at the hips, not at the knees.

 

Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by break at the hips?

[Guest]

For me I did best with the inside of my feel lined up with the outside of my shoulders, and my toes pointed out to 11 and 1 o'clock. Then the first thing I'd do is tilt my hips back than drop down. To go up I basically pushed my hips forward....think of your hips as a door hinge working vertically instead of sideways. Its a little dirty by my coach always tried comparing it to thrusting your hips while doing the nasty.

[Octopussoir]

What are good exercises for the hip flexors?

 

leg abduction(can use the cable as well): http://ejmas.com/pt/2006pt/heidi/abduct3.jpg

 

and just the reverse leg adduction(can use cables too): http://www.acefitness.org/images/exercises/leg_adduct_band2.jpg

 

Breaking of the hips means putting your butt out there rather than trying to bend at the knees. Next time you squat try sticking butt out more...

 

DV- Use a SwissBall on the bottom of your back up against a wall and do your squats like that! It will help with the knee problem(shouldnt have any). http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/c/c9/200px-SwissBallSquat.JPG

[damdaman]

What are good exercises for the hip flexors?

 

leg abduction(can use the cable as well): http://ejmas.com/pt/2006pt/heidi/abduct3.jpg

 

and just the reverse leg adduction(can use cables too): http://www.acefitness.org/images/exercises/leg_adduct_band2.jpg

 

Breaking of the hips means putting your butt out there rather than trying to bend at the knees. Next time you squat try sticking butt out more...

 

DV- Use a SwissBall on the bottom of your back up against a wall and do your squats like that! It will help with the knee problem(shouldnt have any). http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/c/c9/200px-SwissBallSquat.JPG

 

Thanks! This and all the feedback given so far has been extremely helpful. I don't think I stick my butt out very much, maybe because I felt like this made me bend forward, and I was thinking that keeping your back vertical was important. But I will give this a try!

[VeganEssentials]

The squatting rule of thumb: Break at the hips, not at the knees.

It deserves to be repeated: Break at the hips, not at the knees.

 

Yeah, that too! How could I have forgotten the golden rule?

[DV]

 

DV- Use a SwissBall on the bottom of your back up against a wall and do your squats like that! It will help with the knee problem(shouldnt have any). http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/c/c9/200px-SwissBallSquat.JPG

 

Thanks. I can do hack squats fairly well, even with my toes pointed almost straight. It looks like this would work essentially the same areas as the Swissball with the benefit of adding more weight (I'm trying to build mass). However, if it helps to condition me for regular squats then I'm all for it.

[chrisjs]

I can do hack squats fairly well, even with my toes pointed almost straight.

Did you ever switch from "normal" squats to hack squats or just start out with the hack squats? I'm starting to fail at my normal squats and think it's my lower back that's giving out first, so I was going to try switching to hack squats for a while but continue deadlifts.

 

Just wondering how you thought the hack compared to the on-the-shoulders variety.

[DV]

Chris,

 

I currently change my entire workout every 3 weeks. Right now, my "lead" exercise is smith machine squats (2 warm up sets then 5 heavy sets in the 6-8 rep range). For the next 3 weeks I'll probably lead with straight-legged dead lifts and will then go to hack squats. My form is really too bad at this point to add significant weight on free standing or smith machine squats.

 

I also find that hack squats don't seem to ever cause lower back pain - maybe because it forces you to keep good form. If you always start off with squats then it might be a good idea to start off with a different exercise to build on. Your body has probably accommodated to your routine at this point so you need to change something (if it's been the same routine).

[Jason]

How does this look. Sorry bad webcam.

I look up to keep my back upright and go as deep as I can.

Keep weight on the entire foot, heels don't come up.

A comfortable width stance with toes slightly pointed out.

 

http://www.huetheronline.org/vbb/squatdepth.jpg

[VeganEssentials]

How does this look. Sorry bad webcam.

I look up to keep my back upright and go as deep as I can.

Keep weight on the entire foot, heels don't come up.

A comfortable width stance with toes slightly pointed out.

 

Looks pretty good - wish I could see a front view as well, but depth is solid, torso position is good, except that you'll probably want to get a bit more arch in your back. It's almost impossible to maintain a straight back once you put some weight on the bar, and a tight slight arch in the lower back will keep you stable and prevent you from tipping forward as easily (not to mention it will prevent your upper back from rounding over.) In general, it looks better than most people do when squatting - work on getting that tight arch in the lower back as well and I think you've got a winner.

 

Another point that was missed in here with advice on from that can apply to anyone wanting more info -

 

Proper breating on squats is done into the belly, not into the chest. To find out how the difference is, take a deep breath and watch your shoulders in the mirror - do they rise and fall with the breath, or does the air go into your abdomen and prevent your shoulders from moving? Ideally, you do NOT want to have your shoulders rise and take a "chest" breath - you want a belly breath that will inflate the abdomen by the time you reach bottom position as this will help keep you more stable. Some people have a hard time taking the belly breath because if you're like me, it can make it look like you're pregnant with a full belly of air (stupid vanity...), but it makes a big difference in keeping your abs stable and this will help with having your torso stay upright and keep you in proper form. One more thing that needed to be mentioned!

[DV]

Good point about the breathing. I will quote Frederic Delavier from "Strength Training Anatomy" (great book by the way):

 

"No matter what the exercise, as soon as heavy weights are involved, it is essential to create a "block."

 

1. Expanding the chest and holding a deep breath fills the lungs, which supports the rib cage and prevents the chest from collapsing forward.

2. Contracting the abdominal muscle group supports the core and increases the intra-abdominal pressure, which prevents the torso from collapsing forward.

3. Finally, arching the low back by contracting the lumbar muscles positions the spinal column in extension.

These three actions together are referred to as blocking, which keeps you from rounding the back (vertebral flexion). A rounded back when lifting heavy weights can cause a herniated disc."

[chrisjs]

Keep weight on the entire foot, heels don't come up.

That's right but I'd recommend to keep the weight more on your heels and "push with your heels." If you let that weight go too far forward you'll tip your whole body, which isn't fun.

[Zack]

Break at the hips jason.

[xveganjoshx]

Break at the hips jason.

Yeah Jason your butt needs to be sticking out back a little more and your knees need to not travel as far forward (your knees are a bit over what I would call "too much" over the feet). Good start though. You'll get it.

 

Also VE is right you need to have a bar with at least a little weight to get a feel for the form, it is a bit awkward to do it with no weight at all if your trying to nail form.

[VeganEssentials]

The knees "too far forward" seems to get a bit of a bad rap as it's not as detrimental as is often said, so long as it's done safely.

 

Take olympic lifters, for example - they are trained to have excellent form, but oftentimes, they do have knees go over toes (moreso on snatch position at rock bottom, but usually on front and back squats as well). People freak out about how far their knees go sometimes, but I've always said, you never hear about olympic lifters getting their careers cut short due to knee injuries, so they must be doing something right With a narrower stance and varying body types, it can be next to impossible to keep the "ideal" position of never letting knees go past toes. Take the following pictures, for example:

 

http://www.veganessentials.com/images/Squats.jpg

 

Those are prime examples of being able to go with knees over toes and still be squatting safely - notice that, aside from the knees, everything else about their form is spot-on. These are people who, for the most part, have squated 1-2 times PER DAY for many, many years, logging in more heavy squats in a year than most of us will in a lifetime of training. On other boards, people tend to call out "But olympic lifters are known for lots of steroids", and whether or not this is the case the one fact remains that juice doesn't make your connective tissues any stronger, so that isn't anything that can be claimed to be preserving the knees for these guys. It all comes down to the fact that different techniques can work, even if contradictory to much of modern bodybuilding philosophy, so long as they're done correctly and safely.

 

Besides, from the images of Idalberto Arranda in the upper left, when's the last time you saw a bodybuilder under 200 lbs. squat over 600+ lbs. in nothing but a pair of knee wraps?

[Zack]

The only reason I mentioned that is because you can see in the picture he is pushing with his front foot rather than heel. At least that's what I see.

[VeganEssentials]

No worries, Zack! It's definitely not good to push off of your toes, and ideally, you want to press off your heels, so you did make a good observation. With some athletic shoes it's tough to tell - it looks like there may be a bit of shadow under the heel, so it is possible that sitting back in will be a something that needs to be worked on. Just as well, Josh is correct in saying that it wouldn't hurt to push the butt out a bit more, because when you do break at the hips first, the butt should go back and not just straight down. Both have good points, for sure. Nevertheless, there's no question about it, Jason is exhibiting better overall squat posture here than the majority of people I see who are trying to get it right - a few tweaks and it'll all be good!

[Jason]

Thanks for all the help.

I could feel that I was a little light in the heels in that squat.

Maybe because I had my arms were out in front of me.

But the heels were on the floor. My shoes do have blue heels.

I've been squatting at home in bare feet and I know that I'm sitting back more on the heels then.

 

I'll have to get a picture with some weight on my shoulders.