Processed is Processed...some input?

[PigIronFitness]

I would like to know how many of you use foods in their most natural state, i.e. beans, legumes, fruits, veggies, edamame in lieu of veggie protein shakes, bars, boca burgers, veggie dogs, etc. I understand that these products are convenient and help to get the protein ratios right, but is it possible to do that with strictly unprocessed vegan foods? I can get enough protein, but my ratios are not anywhere near 40/40/20 (or the neighborhood thereof).

 

Any insights would be appreciated I did search the forums, but didn't really see where anyone sticks strickly to unprocessed vegan food.

 

TIA,

Gina

[Im Your Man]

Why do you want a ratio like 40/40/20 ?

 

If you want a ratio like this without processed food, only natural foods, it's gonna be difficult, because this ratio is simply not natural

 

There's no food found in nature with that much proteins. Except if you look at low-cal veggies which contains lots of water, a little proteins (but high if we look at the low calories) and no carbs, no fats.

There's also seaweeds that are very high in proteins. Then there's soy, pumpkin seeds and hemp but they're high in fats too. The hemp protein powder is 50% protein though and still is more a whole food than a processed food.

 

If you eat natural whole foods in raw form you need 50% less proteins because you lose 50% of the protein efficiency in cooked foods.

[cubby2112]

I have never tried for a protein intake as high as 40%. The highest I have ever had my intake is 30%. Right now I am hovering between 15-20% and making gains every bit as well as when I had the percentage jacked up higher. I am actually planning on dropping the percentage again to see what happens when I jack my carbs up higher.

 

If you really want a diet that high in protein made of primarily of whole foods, you will be hard pressed to do so. I would say at least lower it to 30% and focus on greens, tofu, lentils, split peas and hemp protein. It will take a pretty strict diet to keep it up that high on whole foods. Something like 25% protein is much more doable and 20% is a cinch.

[aura]

I try to eat food in as natural state as possible, i don't realy worry about ratios. as long as you are eating whole foods and high quality protien, such as hemp or vega i think you will be fine. read the Thrive Diet

[PigIronFitness]

Why do you want a ratio like 40/40/20 ?

 

If you want a ratio like this without processed food, only natural foods, it's gonna be difficult, because this ratio is simply not natural

 

 

Well that is what I thought, but it is a pretty typical "bodybuilding" ratio. Am I correct in assuming that a vegan diet (with plenty of variety andnatural fat) doesn't demand a strict calculation of carb/protein/fat ratios?

[cubby2112]

Why do you want a ratio like 40/40/20 ?

 

If you want a ratio like this without processed food, only natural foods, it's gonna be difficult, because this ratio is simply not natural

 

 

Well that is what I thought, but it is a pretty typical "bodybuilding" ratio. Am I correct in assuming that a vegan diet (with plenty of variety andnatural fat) doesn't demand a strict calculation of carb/protein/fat ratios?

 

I think so long as you are eating plenty of whole grains, legumes and greens you will easily have your bases covered. I am starting to look into diets lower in protein all the time and each time I decrease my intake I am either getting equal or better results. I think carbs play more into a muscle building workout than it is popular to believe. Check some of veganmaster's posts. He knows of a lot of good studies that point to this. I am reading up on them.

[PigIronFitness]

I think so long as you are eating plenty of whole grains, legumes and greens you will easily have your bases covered. I am starting to look into diets lower in protein all the time and each time I decrease my intake I am either getting equal or better results. I think carbs play more into a muscle building workout than it is popular to believe. Check some of veganmaster's posts. He knows of a lot of good studies that point to this. I am reading up on them.

 

 

THANK YOU!

[offense74]

A little more to read:

Jeff Novick is on it.

Joel Fuhrman is on it.

More from Joel Fuhrmans blog.

Joel Fuhrman again.

And again

Dr. McDougall

 

Also, the China Study is almost a must read if you're interested in the subject of health.

 

If you eat natural whole foods in raw form you need 50% less proteins because you lose 50% of the protein efficiency in cooked foods.

There is no scientific data supporting this. I would love to see the bio-chemical breakdown of this argument. What happens to the amino acids that "disappears"?

[Im Your Man]

 

If you eat natural whole foods in raw form you need 50% less proteins because you lose 50% of the protein efficiency in cooked foods.

There is no scientific data supporting this. I would love to see the bio-chemical breakdown of this argument. What happens to the amino acids that "disappears"?

 

I don't have any studies to show neither, though I haven't searched. It's just what I've read here and there, not only on certain websites and posts but in certain books. Usually they just say there's a loss of proteins when eating cooked, they don't say how much, but I think I've read that "50%" thing in the book "living food for optimal health" Brian R. Clement, and maybe there was a study to prove it.

Perhaps VeganMaster have heard of a study supporting it.

 

But if I can answer your question myself, I would say: some of the enzymes and amino acids just become too unstable with the heat and become volatile and goes in the air, just like some of the vitamins, so we can smell it when we cook foods, there's a loss of flavour and taste. Some others just stay in the food but are destructed, harmed or are too altered to be 100% efficient.

When you cook foods, most of the vitamins and enzymeare gone so you need to eat more food to have the same amount of vitamins in raw food. Minerals are more resistant to heat so it,s ok. It would be great to have some scientific studies about what happens with the amino acids molecular structure when heated.

[DV]

Why look at percentages when there is a general agreement among most bodybuilder authors that bodybuilders need 1 gm of protein per pound or approximately 2 gms per kg? Your percentage of protein intake will depend greatly on your metabolic rate for your size. For instance, I'm 150 lbs and my maintenance intake is 2500 kcal. If I ingest 150 gms of protein, that is 600 kcal of protein or 24% of my daily intake. I eat a fair amount of tofu, tempeh and seitan to reach that goal, as those foods don't cause me any problems. If I did have problems with those foods then I would need to have a much tighter diet with a lot of greens, varied legumes and varied grains. I've eaten lots of isolated protein sources in the past (powders, bars, dogs, burgers) but am currently phasing them out of my diet.

 

Remember that the current low carb diet is a fad. Many bodybuilding diets in the 80s and early 90s were about 60% carbs - even for cutting - and they worked. If we didn't have so many laboratory-made "foods" available then you can bet that no one would be pushing a high protein diet. Just because so many have bought into the super-high protein hype doesn't mean that it's the only diet that works.

[Lean and Green]

Hey,

 

I stick to a strict diet of unprocessed vegan foods and bodybuild as well.

 

I up the protein ante in my diet by consuming spirulina and chlorella. I try to get around 125grams of protein in a day, just from these algaes and the rest comes from raw whole foods.

 

I consider algae in powdered form to be an unprocessed food as well. I suppose you could consider drying at a low temp minimally processing but it stays pretty much in tact and i don't have an algae farm in my backyard to have it fresh

 

Also, like DV said, 1 lb per lb of bodyweight is a good gauge to go by. Protein is very difficult to digest and not the best source of 'energy'. A balanced intake of all macronutrients with a focus on adequate amount of protein for those who exercise as mentioned and you should be fine