For all those finger pointers, with short term memory

[Vegan Joe]

A little something for all those finger pointers, with short term memory.

 

 

I don't think anyone is happy about this war, but to claim amnesia, is sad.

http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv

 

 

Have Forefathers who fought in the Revolutionary and Civil (North) Wars

Grandfather Served in WWI

Father Served in WWII

I Served during the Vietnam War

Our Son is being treated for TBI after serving in Iraq

Just in case you wanted to know.

[Vegan Joe]

Joe, is something unrelated to politics bothering you in life right now?

Nah, just like you I had/have a few days off, doing a little painting, a little engine work, so seeking fun were I can find it. Do have to get back to my workout routine though. My lack of motivation to exercise is just a little bother, but I will fix that this weekend.

PS You just got to love that video though. Hey?

[Vegan Joe]

That video had no effect on me. I'm not partisan towards either party. Actually I hate both of them about equally.

BINGO!

[Vegan Joe]

For the benefit of our memory

 

 

Chemical Attacks on Iran ::: 1983

Media reports describe Iraqi use of chemical weapons against Iranian forces. Mustard gas is the first weapon used. In 1984 reports say Iraq uses the nerve agent Tabun.

 

Gassing the Kurds ::: March 1988

Iraq uses chemical weapons against its own population during an attack on the rebellious Kurdish city of Halabja.

 

Invading Kuwait ::: Aug. 2, 1990

Iraq invades Kuwait, easily overwhelming its tiny neighbor.

 

Resolution 687 Bans Iraq WMD ::: April 3, 1991

Shortly after Iraq is ejected from Kuwait by an international military coalition, the United Nations Security Council passes its first resolution addressing Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) in Iraq. Resolution 687 states that Iraq must destroy its presumed stockpile of WMD, and the means to produce them. It also limits the country's ballistic missile capability. The U.N. Special Commission (UNSCOM) is established to oversee the inspection, destruction and monitoring of chemical and biological weapons. The International Atomic Energy Agency is asked to document and destroy Iraqi efforts to develop nuclear weapons. Iraq accepts the resolution three days later, agreeing to disclose the extent of its WMD program to inspectors.

 

 

Unilateral Destruction ::: Summer 1991

Iraq unilaterally destroys WMD equipment and documentation in an effort at concealment of pre-war work.

 

Resolution 715 Demands Compliance ::: Oct. 11, 1991

Responding to Iraq's consistent efforts to interrupt or block inspection teams, the U.N. Security Council passes Resolution 715. The resolution says Iraq must "accept unconditionally the inspectors and all other personnel designated by the Special Commission".

 

 

'Defensive' Biological Weapons ::: May 1992

Iraq officially admits to having had a "defensive" biological weapons program. Weeks later, UNSCOM begins the destruction of Iraq's chemical weapons program. Progress is halted in July when Iraq refuses an inspection team access to the Ministry of Agriculture.

 

Denial and Acceptance ::: 1993

Inspections are again held up when Iraq attempts to deny UNSCOM and the IAEA the use of their own aircraft in Iraq. In late 1993 Iraq accepts resolution 715.

 

Nuclear, Chemical Weapons Programs Destroyed ::: 1994

UNSCOM completes the destruction of Iraq's known chemical weapons and production equipment. IAEA teams largely complete their mandate to neutralize Iraq's nuclear program, including the destruction of facilities Iraq had not even declared to inspectors.

 

Defection and Revelation ::: Aug. 8, 1995

Hussein Kamel, the former director of Iraq's Military Industrialization Corporation, responsible for all WMD programs, defects to Jordan. As a result, Iraq admits to a far more developed biological weapons programs than it had previously disclosed. Saddam Hussein's government also hands over documents related to its nuclear weapons program and admits to the attempted recovery of highly-enriched uranium.

 

Al-Hakam Destroyed ::: May 1996

Iraq's main facility for the production of biological weapons, Al-Hakam, is destroyed through explosive demolition supervised by UNSCOM inspectors.

 

The Fight Against Proliferation ::: 1997

The Additional Protocol is added to the global Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), giving IAEA inspectors more authority to investigate programs in member states. The protocol is in response to the realization that Iraq -- a NPT signatory -- had been able to move swiftly and covertly toward the construction of a nuclear weapon in the late 1980s under the treaty's previous safeguards. Inspections in the 1990s revealed that Iraq was much closer to building a nuclear weapon in the 1980s than had been suspected by IAEA officials.

 

Resolution 1115 ::: June 1997

In another effort to end Iraq's interference with inspection teams, the U.N. Security Council passes Resolution 1115. The resolution again calls for Iraq to comply with all previous resolutions regarding WMD. By the end of 1997, a diplomatic stalemate forces UNSCOM to withdraw most of its staff from Iraq.

 

 

Memorandum of Understanding ::: Feb. 20-23, 1998

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan visits Iraq in an effort secure inspections of what Iraq terms "presidential sites." The U.N. and Iraq agree to support the terms of the newly drafted "Memorandum of Understanding." The Memorandum secures UNSCOM access to eight previously off-limits presidential sites.

 

Operation Desert Fox ::: 1998

Cooperation ends between Iraq and inspectors when the country demands the lifting of the U.N. oil embargo. UNSCOM and the IAEA pull their staffs out of Iraq in anticipation of a US-led air raid on Iraqi military targets. The four-day military offensive known as Operation Desert Fox begins on December 16, 1998. According to a U.S. military Web site, the mission of Desert Fox was "to strike military and security targets in Iraq that contribute to Iraq's ability to produce, store, maintain and deliver weapons of mass destruction." The operation is considered a success, largely finishing off what was left of Iraq' s WMD infrastructure.

 

 

From UNSCOM to UNMOVIC ::: Dec. 17, 1999

The U.N. Security Council passes Resolution 1284, replacing UNSCOM with the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC). Hans Blix of Sweden is named to head the organization. UNMOVIC's staff are employees of the United Nations. UNSCOM's staff had been experts on loan from U.N.-member countries, calling into question the motives of individual team members.

 

 

World Trade Center Attacks ::: Sept. 11, 2001

Terrorists attack New York City and Washington, D.C., with passenger jets, radically altering America's view of national security issues.

 

'Axis of Evil' ::: Jan. 29, 2002

President Bush accuses Iraq of being part of an international "axis if evil" during his State of the Union address. Bush tells Congress:

"Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax and nerve gas and nuclear weapons for over a decade … This is a regime that has something to hide from the civilized world."

 

 

'A Grave and Gathering Danger' ::: Sept. 12, 2002

President Bush accuses Iraq of failing to live up to its obligations to the U.N. during an address to the General Assembly. Bush tells the U.N.:

"We know that Saddam Hussein pursued weapons of mass murder even when inspectors were in his country. Are we to assume that he stopped when they left? The history, the logic, and the facts lead to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger."

 

 

'Material Breach' ::: Nov. 8, 2002

U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441 says Iraq "remains in material breach of its obligations" under various U.N. resolutions and gives the country "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament" commitments.

 

 

The U.N. Moves Back In ::: Nov. 27, 2002

UNMOVIC and IAEA inspections begin again in Iraq, almost four years after the departure of inspectors prior to Operation Desert Fox.

 

Recycled Material ::: Dec. 7, 2002

Iraq delivers a 12,000-page WMD report to the U.N. in response to Resolution 1441. U.N. chief inspector Hans Blix says the information provided by Iraq is largely recycled material.

 

No 'Smoking Guns' ::: Jan. 9, 2003

UNMOVIC's Hans Blix and the IAEA's Director General Mohamed ElBaradei report their findings to the U.N. Security Council. Blix says inspectors have not found any "smoking guns" in Iraq. ElBaradei reports that aluminum tubes suspected by the U.S. to be components for uranium enrichment are more likely to be parts for rockets, as the Iraqis claim. John Negroponte, U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., says:

"There is still no evidence that Iraq has fundamentally changed its approach from one of deceit to a genuine attempt to be forthcoming in meeting the council's demand that it disarm."

 

Sixteen Words ::: Jan. 28, 2003

In his State of the Union address, President Bush continues to view Iraq is a WMD threat. He makes a statement that implies Iraq is trying to develop nuclear weapons. Bush says:

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

It comes to light later that the president based his statement on discredited intelligence.

 

Powell's U.N. Appearance ::: Feb. 5, 2003

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell goes in person to the U.N. to make the case against Iraq. Citing evidence obtained by American intelligence, he tells the U.N. that Iraq has failed "to come clean and disarm." Powell adds:

"My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence."

 

 

The Burden is on Iraq ::: Feb. 14, 2003

The IAEA's ElBaradei and chief weapons inspector Blix report to the U.N. Security Council on Iraqi cooperation in the search for WMD. They say they have not discovered any biological, chemical or nuclear weapons activities. Proscribed missile programs are discovered and disabled. Blix does express frustration with Iraq's failure to account for its vast stores of chemical and biological agents it was known to have at one point. Blix says:

"This is perhaps the most important problem we are facing. Although I can understand that it may not be easy for Iraq in all cases to provide the evidence needed, it is not the task of the inspectors to find it."

 

U.S. vs. U.N. ::: March 6-7, 2003

The night before Blix and ElBaradei are to report on inspection efforts in Iraq, President Bush gives a news conference in which he again says Iraq is hiding something. Bush says:

"These are not the actions of a regime that is disarming. These are the actions of a regime engaged in a willful charade. These are the actions of a regime that systematically and deliberately is defying the world."

 

Blix tells the U.N. the next day:

"Intelligence authorities have claimed that weapons of mass destruction are moved around Iraq by trucks, in particular that there are mobile production units for biological weapons … [but] no evidence of proscribed activities have so far been found."

 

Appearing with Blix, ElBaradei tells the U.N. that the IAEA has concluded that documents appearing to show Iraq shopping for uranium in Niger are, in fact, forgeries.

 

Invading Iraq ::: March 20, 2003

The U.S. military and other members of an American-led coalition invade Iraq. Baghdad falls on April 9. President Bush declares an end to major combat operations on May 1. Shortly afterward, the Pentagon announces formation of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) to search for WMD.

[VeganEssentials]

Too bad everything Saddam did up to the invasion of Kuwait was done with U.S. approval. They even supplied the gas.

 

Yeah, we have had a tendency to fall for believing that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", and it does come back to bite us later for what we get involved in.

[xjohanx]

Yeah, we have had a tendency to fall for believing that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", and it does come back to bite us later for what we get involved in.

 

So true. I "discovered" this when I was about 12-13 years old and ever since I've wondered how the hell the US governments get away with it. Just look at South America, the things that the US government and the CIA did there is unbelievable.

[blabbate]

A little something for all those finger pointers, with short term memory.

Really, for the people with short term memory? Now I'm terribly confused.

[Vegan Joe]

A little something for all those finger pointers, with short term memory.

Really, for the people with short term memory? Now I'm terribly confused.

Well I can't help you if you're confused. Maybe if you want to tell me a little about it i might be able to help.

[Tarz]

Just look at South America, the things that the US government and the CIA did there is unbelievable.

I'd go more for Central America - Guatemala is especially tragic. Nicarauga was very nasty too. There was also the bizarre invasions of such critical threats as Grenada and Panama.... Couldn't make it up.

[veginator]

What's with the "we" and "us"? To me, the US government (and the big corporations whose interests it revolves around serving) is "them," not "us." Along with support for dozens of corrupt dictators, there have been more than 100 US military invasions of other countries (or uses of US troops on American citizens) just in the last 150 years--see http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html for a list. It's all about money--rich people's money, not the little bit that "we" have.

 

Too bad everything Saddam did up to the invasion of Kuwait was done with U.S. approval. They even supplied the gas.

 

Yeah, we have had a tendency to fall for believing that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", and it does come back to bite us later for what we get involved in.

[DaN]

Is Vegan Joes point that the war in Iraq is ok, & justified?

 

That is hilarious, Joe - how naiive are you? You should go join Team America.

 

As I said in other posts, the US attack on Iraq was for two reasons, oil, & the assimilation of a sovereign currency into the world bank monetary system.

[Im Your Man]

 

Have Forefathers who fought in the Revolutionary and Civil (North) Wars

Grandfather Served in WWI

Father Served in WWII

I Served during the Vietnam War

Our Son is being treated for TBI after serving in Iraq

Just in case you wanted to know.

Well, that's the typical profile of rednecks, or Americans patriots (i.e: fanatics)* ( I'm sure you have a US flag at your door, Joe) :

 

Always republicans, voting for Bush father, then Bush son, then re-electing Bush son a second time. Never traveled outside their country, and doesn't know much about the rest of the world and foreign cultures.

All family went to war, and they themselves killed the Vietcongs and the "slanting eyes", then they wether learned a lesson of life from it (like in the movie "Born on the Fourth of July") or they will fell even deeper into hate.

And named Joe, the ultimate American, Marine name. It's a miracle he's vegan, but not surprising at all that's it's been only 2 years and a half, at the age of 55; you'll never see someone like Joe being vegan since the age of 20. The change is just starting to operate, better too late than never.

 

This is not racism or a prejudice, I'm just making a generalization, but a generalization which is nearly 99% always true and precise.

Joe, I find it sad that after all the arguments, stats, documents, thoughts we provided to you, not a single time you thought about it and replied back with a serious argument, a statistic, document or a thought; but always with a reaction of self-defense, saying we were attacking you. Always refusing to accept opinions from people who are not exactly like you or living in your country. Well, "aliens" have a better view of what Americans and "America" (as if United States were the whole America, lol) are, because to observe something you need to make a few steps out, to be more logical and rational, or to be able to analize what others have to say.

 

Good that you finally found out that "Happiness is a personal choice.

I am the sole source of all my sadness and joy." like your signature says. Then you should know that when you criticize others, it is only yourself you criticize and are refering to. You chose to live your life, or to blame others for what your life is.

 

*I'm not saying that American patriots are worst than any other patriots in other countries; "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."

George Bernard Shaw

[Vegan Joe]

 

Have Forefathers who fought in the Revolutionary and Civil (North) Wars

Grandfather Served in WWI

Father Served in WWII

I Served during the Vietnam War

Our Son is being treated for TBI after serving in Iraq

Just in case you wanted to know.

Well, that's the typical profile of rednecks, or Americans patriots (i.e: fanatics)* ( I'm sure you have a US flag at your door, Joe) :

 

Always republicans, voting for Bush father, then Bush son, then re-electing Bush son a second time. Never traveled outside their country, and doesn't know much about the rest of the world and foreign cultures.

All family went to war, and they themselves killed the Vietcongs and the "slanting eyes", then they wether learned a lesson of life from it (like in the movie "Born on the Fourth of July") or they will fell even deeper into hate.

And named Joe, the ultimate American, Marine name. It's a miracle he's vegan, but not surprising at all that's it's been only 2 years and a half, at the age of 55; you'll never see someone like Joe being vegan since the age of 20. The change is just starting to operate, better too late than never.

 

This is not racism or a prejudice, I'm just making a generalization, but a generalization which is nearly 99% always true and precise.

Joe, I find it sad that after all the arguments, stats, documents, thoughts we provided to you, not a single time you thought about it and replied back with a serious argument, a statistic, document or a thought; but always with a reaction of self-defense, saying we were attacking you. Always refusing to accept opinions from people who are not exactly like you or living in your country. Well, "aliens" have a better view of what Americans and "America" (as if United States were the whole America, lol) are, because to observe something you need to make a few steps out, to be more logical and rational, or to be able to analize what others have to say.

 

Good that you finally found out that "Happiness is a personal choice.

I am the sole source of all my sadness and joy." like your signature says. Then you should know that when you criticize others, it is only yourself you criticize and are refering to. You chose to live your life, or to blame others for what your life is.

 

*I'm not saying that American patriots are worst than any other patriots in other countries; "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."

George Bernard Shaw

You're pulling my leg? Right?

[Im Your Man]

I had this thought... As long as there will be patriotism, there will be wars; as long as there will be wars, there will be patriotism.

[Vegan Joe]

I had this thought... As long as there will be patriotism, there will be wars; as long as there will be wars, there will be patriotism.

Don't we all wish it was that simple.

[Im Your Man]

I had this thought... As long as there will be patriotism, there will be wars; as long as there will be wars, there will be patriotism.

Don't we all wish it was that simple.

Well it's not that simple because there are other causes to war, but each of thoses causes are pretty simple, yes. And by being pro-war (going to war, and saying/thinking that many wars were/are justified, or inevitable, or useful for mankind), you don't seem to me like someone trying to annihilate one of the causes, i.e patriotism.

[Vegan Joe]

Is Vegan Joes point that the war in Iraq is ok, & justified?

 

That is hilarious, Joe - how naiive are you? You should go join Team America.

 

As I said in other posts, the US attack on Iraq was for two reasons, oil, & the assimilation of a sovereign currency into the world bank monetary system.

First You ask a question.

Then you answer your own question,

and now you pontificate about your answer.

[DaN]

First You ask a question.

Then you answer your own question,

and now you pontificate about your answer.

 

And once again you have absolutely no response to the actual points people raise in response to your posts, exactly as Im Your Man pointed out.

 

Instead you resort to useless answers like the one above.

 

For your information, my question was rhetorical, thats why I answered it myself.And the way you have used the word 'pontificate' is incorrect in the way you have used it in.

 

[Vegan Joe]

And once again you have absolutely no response to the actual points people raise in response to your posts, exactly as Im Your Man pointed out.

I presented some facts. What's the matter you can't watch and read it for yourself, and come to your own conclusions. You want me to hold you by the hand and tell you what you are watching and reading, and tell you how you should think and feel about it.

Oh just one thing I'd like to remind you of.

Remember this is "Bushes War"

[blabbate]

Remember this is "Bushes War"

Huh? Is that the terrain in which it takes place? Or are we fighting for control of Iraq's lovely bluebeard shrubs?

[Vegan Joe]

Remember this is "Bushes War"

Huh? Is that the terrain in which it takes place? Or are we fighting for control of Iraq's lovely bluebeard shrubs?

bluebeard shrubs

[blabbate]

bluebeard shrubs

In that case, I support the war.

[Richard]

At Joe's request, I am locking these political threads