Concern about my bone health

[blougaville]

Hi,

 

My name is Steven and I am new to this board. I've been vegan for just over a year now and have found the vegan bodybuilding website to be very helpful.

 

My issue is that over the last few months I have found my body to be getting steadily more "creaky." It seems like any subtle movement that I make, whether rotating my shoulder or extending my arm or adjusting slightly in my chair results in some sort of crack. There is no pain but it has me worried. When I am working out I notice these cracks more than usual. I try to eat as much raw fruits and veggies as possible and avoid eating too much processed soy.

 

Has anyone experienced this after going vegan? I'm wondering if it could be a vitamin deficiency or something else unrelated to my diet.

 

Steven

[Vegan Joe]

Not that anyone here is a Dr., and you might want to get a check up and have some blood work done just to see if it's something beyond diet.

Can we see what you eat over a period of time. Do you know approx. how much vitamines like B12 you are getting.

Did you say how old you are and your general heath conditions. We might have some suggestions, but once again I would see a doctor who has knowledge of Vegan type diets.

 

What kind of fats and oils do you get in the food that you eat, Like Omegas or Vit. E rich foods. How about Vit D?

Edited November 27, 2008 by Vegan Joe

[Im Your Man]

hm if you're eating well, with lots of fruits and greens, I don't see why nutrition would be the problem, at least for not concerning the vitamins. Are you saying your joints make a little noise, like when you're seated and you flex your knees ? Sometimes it does that for me, more when I wasn't vegan , and mostly during winter, maybe if my skin gets dry a bit too. Perhaps it's about lubrication on the joints, perhaps sometimes we need more fats in the diet, I don't know

[blougaville]

Thanks for the quick replies.

 

I feel like I'm very healthy. For the first time in my life I've actually been able to meet my goal of gaining some weight. I'm 175lbs with about 14% body fat.

 

Here is a quick rundown of what I eat most frequently:

Oatmeal with Peanut Butter and Rice Dream (At least once a day)

Bananas, Apples, Pears, Oranges, Sometimes berries

Black bean chili

Raw Broccoli / salads

Raw Cashews / other nuts

Hemp protein supplement (just started using vega instead of straight hemp)

Cliff Builders Bars

Brown rice stir fries (sometimes with tofu)

Occasionally an Amy's quarter pound burger

 

I take a multivitamin 2 - 3 times a day that gives me Vitamins C (1000mgs), D (400I.U.), E (250I.U.), B12 (25mcg), Calcium (250mg) amongst many others. I notice that this supplement is iron free. I have been slacking on the flax seed oil but I hope the Vega will help balance out my fats.

 

Joe, getting bloodwork done sounds like a good idea. That can identify vitamin deficiencies?

 

Thanks,

Steven

[Vegan Joe]

Thanks for the quick replies.

 

I feel like this I'm very healthy. For the first time in my life I've accomplished gaining weight. I'm 175lbs with about 14% body fat.

 

Here is a quick rundown of what I eat most frequently:

Oatmeal with Peanut Butter and Rice Dream (At least once a day)

Bananas, Apples, Pears, Oranges, Sometimes berries

Black bean chili

Raw Broccoli / salads

Raw Cashews / other nuts

Hemp protein supplement (just started using vega instead of straight hemp)

Cliff Builders Bars

Brown rice stir fries (sometimes with tofu)

Occasionally an Amy's quarter pound burger

 

I take a multivitamin 2 - 3 times a day that gives me Vitamins C (1000mgs), D (400I.U.), E (250I.U.), B12 (25mcg), Calcium (250mg) amongst many others. I notice that this supplement is iron free. I have been slacking on the flax seed oil but I hope the Vega will help balance out my fats.

 

Joe, getting bloodwork done sounds like a good idea. That can identify vitamin deficiencies?

 

Thanks,

Steven

What do you mean by 2-3 times a day? Is that the recommended dosage on the bottle? Are those the quantities for all or one dose?

Basic blood work will only indicate how well some of your internal organs are functioning. More specific tests can be done for a number of other things such as deficencies.

[blougaville]

What do you mean by 2-3 times a day? Is that the recommended dosage on the bottle? Are those the quantities for all or one dose?

 

Those amounts were per serving. The supplement calls for three servings a day and I said that I take 2 - 3 because I often forget to bring them with me when I go out. Maybe you could share what you supplement with and how many times per day so I can compare.

 

Also, forgot to mention that in my diet I try to avoid eating too much soy so tofu and fake meats are pretty rare.

 

It's hard to explain my symptoms. Just now after typing that sentance I went to rest my right arm on my chair for a moment and the back of my shoulder blade seemed to "grind" a little bit and made a quiet "popping" noise. When I am driving my left arm will "crack" as I make a slow left turn. My right wrist might crack as frequently as every 30 seconds during normal use of my computer mouse. Just weird things like this that I've only really experienced within the last several months.

 

Steven

[RawVgn]

I'll give you the radical perspective: your putting a bunch of junk in your body that could very well cause joint pain and other degenerative problems. Health is not nearly as much what you put in your body as what you don't put in it. Protein (like the powder and legumes)is notorious for causing degenerative joint problems, kidney problems, and so on. There is an ongoing international effort to largely ban over-the-counter supplements like vitamins because they are considered toxins by many expert toxicologists. The Natural Hygiene School says our bodies are naturally healthy and vigorous if we don't pollute them with junk.

 

There is a pretty straight forward way to see if all the junk you eat is causing your problems: stop eating it for a month or so and see how you feel. Try eating ONLY raw fruit and raw greens (lettuces and chinese cabbages)for a month. No supplements, no powders, no legumes or other cooked food. Detox yourself and see what happens-just keep in mind you'll probably have some mild symptoms as your body cleanses the junk you've been eating. I've eaten this way for the past year and never been healthier-including heaaling a chronic "tennis elbow/wrist" that the best doctors around could do nothing for. I also chat regularly wwith 100s of other people who eat this way, many of whom tell similiar stories of miraculous recoverys from chronic diseases unhealable by the medical establishment. Now for the obligatory legal stuff-you should consult your dr before doing anything and this is not intended as medical advice.

 

Know why the US and northern Europe have the highest hip fracture (osteoporosis) rates in the world? Milk. The protein in milk acidifies the body causing calcium to leech off the bones to neutralize the acid and reestablish ph balance.

[Vegan Joe]

What do you mean by 2-3 times a day? Is that the recommended dosage on the bottle? Are those the quantities for all or one dose?

 

Those amounts were per serving. The supplement calls for three servings a day and I said that I take 2 - 3 because I often forget to bring them with me when I go out. Maybe you could share what you supplement with and how many times per day so I can compare.

 

Also, forgot to mention that in my diet I try to avoid eating too much soy so tofu and fake meats are pretty rare.

 

It's hard to explain my symptoms. Just now after typing that sentance I went to rest my right arm on my chair for a moment and the back of my shoulder blade seemed to "grind" a little bit and made a quiet "popping" noise. When I am driving my left arm will "crack" as I make a slow left turn. My right wrist might crack as frequently as every 30 seconds during normal use of my computer mouse. Just weird things like this that I've only really experienced within the last several months.

 

Steven

The Vit C is alot, The Vit E is up there, the rest seem to be within what is considered standard. There are some things like Iodine which is very important for your thyroid glands, along with iron. You don't take much soy, whick can inhibit iron uptake, and you eat enough Vit C to help with absorbtion so?

I would be interested in the amount of Iodine in your diet, especially from natural sources.

One thing I don't see is your activity levels. You might if you aren't already start with a yoga type stretching routine. and strength training exercises if you don't already.

 

PS Like some people I don't claim to know or pretend that there is anyone thing or discipline that has or knows all of the answers. But a balanced diet is key, and taking suppliments such as Vits in a average amounts is really only a safety measure in insuring good health. But will never be in any form or shape a cureall for every ailment that humand kind succumbs to.

[RawVgn]

There's another school out there that says humans are very similiar to other animals when it comes to food and nutrition. Most animals are niche eaters: they evolved in specific environments and are biologically adapted to those environments. So sharks eat fish but not rice or potatoes, horses eat grass but not steaks, and anthropoid primates (chimps, bonobos, orangatanes, gorillas, and humans) eat fruit and shoots. So, according to Natural Hygiene "balance" or variety, eating beyond our niche, is the KEY to illness and disease. Variety within our appropriate food classes is fine-any kind of fruit or greens-but across food classes like starches and dairy and meat is an environmental and health disaster.

 

"Balance" in nutrition is largely a political accomodation of the Food and Nutrition Board and like minded political institutions- balance being a euphemism for variety so nobodys toes get stepped on and maximum political accomodation is maintained- so all the influential agricultural and processing interests are kept happy. Don't confuse our "best government money can buy" with scientific facts or realities. About half the American population believes the earth is only 6000 yrs old and evolution is untrue, so adopting attitudes by popularity contest (herd behavior) may be very dangerous to your health. Not having "pegs" to hang our beliefs on can be unnerving, but subjects like nutrition (or stock trading) require radical perspectives to thrive. Herd behavior is supposed to protect us (and often does), but it can not be blindly relied upon.

 

Dr Douglas Graham wrote a very illuminating book about appropriate human diet. It's called the "80/10/10 Diet."

 

We evolved in the tropics and are a tropical species. Eating all the junk our culture treats as food was probably a necessity for us to expand our range in the days before global trade. Most of us are now in a position to bring our largely tropical climate foods to our temperate homes regardless of the season, so we can enjoy health benefits our recent ancestors could not have imagined.

 

There is an often useful test to see if something is suitable for human consumption: can you eat it in its whole, natural raw state without technological sleights of hand like fire (which appeared only recently in evolutionary time frames.) If you can't eat it and enjoy it naturally, is our senses, our evolved choice mechanism, are telling you it is not human food. Can you eat and enjoy a raw potatoe? Can you chew and enjoy raw legumes? Does eating a carcass appeal to your senses? Do you enjoy eating unprocessed grains like rice or wheat? All of these so-called "foods" are inedible in their natural state; our species is not evolved to eat them and cooking and spices and so on are just efforts to make the unsuitable for human consumption half-way edible. And the unedible half-the denatured proteins and fats from cooking, the opiods in grains, the indigestable cellulose in starches, the toxins in legumes, cholesterol and uric acid in meat, and on and on-are the root of most health problems in the modern human developed world.

Edited November 27, 2008 by RawVgn

[xjohanx]

Thanks for the quick replies.

 

I feel like I'm very healthy. For the first time in my life I've actually been able to meet my goal of gaining some weight. I'm 175lbs with about 14% body fat.

 

Here is a quick rundown of what I eat most frequently:

Oatmeal with Peanut Butter and Rice Dream (At least once a day)

Bananas, Apples, Pears, Oranges, Sometimes berries

Black bean chili

Raw Broccoli / salads

Raw Cashews / other nuts

Hemp protein supplement (just started using vega instead of straight hemp)

Cliff Builders Bars

Brown rice stir fries (sometimes with tofu)

Occasionally an Amy's quarter pound burger

 

I take a multivitamin 2 - 3 times a day that gives me Vitamins C (1000mgs), D (400I.U.), E (250I.U.), B12 (25mcg), Calcium (250mg) amongst many others. I notice that this supplement is iron free. I have been slacking on the flax seed oil but I hope the Vega will help balance out my fats.

 

Joe, getting bloodwork done sounds like a good idea. That can identify vitamin deficiencies?

 

Thanks,

Steven

 

I'm not sure what causes the "symptoms" you're having but I just wanted to say that your diet looks healthy to me (except clif bars but they're okay). Try adding more LEAFY GREENS for calcium. As you may or may not know Vitamin D is crucial for proper bone health. If you live in a sunny climate you probably don't have to worry but if you live in a cold climate make sure you supplement properly (with vegan vitamin D ofcourse ). If your worried about omega-3 VEGA is good, buy some grounded flax seeds and put on your oatmeal. I do that every morning and even though the taste isn't the best you hardly notice it among the other tastes in the oatmeal.

 

Just FYI RawVgn is pretty extreme so don't take everything he says all serious. Bu he is making some points about vitamins. Isolated vitamin A and iron have been proven to be pretty dangerous for you.

[beforewisdom]

Hi,

 

My name is Steven and I am new to this board. I've been vegan for just over a year now and have found the vegan bodybuilding website to be very helpful.

 

My issue is that over the last few months I have found my body to be getting steadily more "creaky." It seems like any subtle movement that I make, whether rotating my shoulder or extending my arm or adjusting slightly in my chair results in some sort of crack. There is no pain but it has me worried. When I am working out I notice these cracks more than usual. I try to eat as much raw fruits and veggies as possible and avoid eating too much processed soy.

 

Has anyone experienced this after going vegan? I'm wondering if it could be a vitamin deficiency or something else unrelated to my diet.

 

Steven

 

 

Read this post and read one of the books. Improve your diet.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13710

 

Read this and switch to a better variety of vegetables

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13765

 

If you aren't I would strongly urge you to start taking 1 - 2 tablespoons of freshly ground flax seed per day. I would also consider adding a DHA supplement to that such as Omega 3 Zen or an EPA supplement like http://www.water4.net/. Upping the flax seeds along with these omega 3 supplement will reduce the inflammation in your body which MAY help with creaking.

 

Good Luck