Playing with a new 3-day split. Thoughts?

[Fallen_Horse]

Insomnia again. Strikes just about every day now. So I built a new routine to try out. Thoughts anyone?

 

 

 

3-Day Split

 

Legs/Abs

5x5 Squats / Deadlift

3x8 Hamstring Machine

3x8 Calf Raises

2x15 Hanging Leg Raises

 

Chest/Shoulders

5x5 Decline Bench Press

5x5 Seated Overhead Press / Incline Bench

5x5 Close-grip Bench Press

2x12 Three-Way Shoulder Raises

 

Back/Biceps

5x5 Lat Pulldown / Pull-ups

5x5 Bent-Over Rows

5x5 Seated Rows

3x8 DB Curls

[cubby2112]

I would try to replace the hamstring machine with a glute-ham raise, pull-thru, etc. For shoulder raises, I only like to do lateral ones to hit the lateral delts. Maybe change a couple of the second or third 5x5s in each workout to 3x8x or 4x6s. Those are just my personal preferences, though.

[xjohanx]

Leg/ab day

1. If you're foh realz do both squats and deadlifts (straight legged perhaps), not either or.

2. What Cubby said about hamstrings.

3. Do weighted crunches instead of leg raises.

 

Press day

1. Skip decline bench, it's dangerous and not very beneficial. Replace with either flat bench or dips.

2. Make sure you always do one pressing excersise that focuses on shoulder. The alternatives shouldn't be incline bench or overhead press. It should be seated military press, standing military press or seated dumbbell press.

3. Three ways are cool (hihihi) but I'm not sure what you mean in this context. I'm guessing you do front, lateral and bent over side raises? If so I would skip the front raises and do just the lateral and bent over. An alternative is also to place the bent over side raises on back days since your rear delts will be worked more that day anyway.

4. Volume is kinda high, I would choose two main excersises, one for chest and one for shoulders, and maybe do the close grip bench for 2-3 sets only.

 

Back/biceps. Solid excersise choices, just some thoughts.

1. Like I said, maybe place some bent over lateral raises here.

2. Volume again, same as before. Chose one vertical and one horizontal and do 5x5. Then maybe do a bit more of the rows of whatever but 2-3 sets is probably better.

[Fallen_Horse]

Leg/ab day

1. If you're foh realz do both squats and deadlifts (straight legged perhaps), not either or.

Both on the same day? I figured that would trash me but I can try it.

 

Press day

1. Skip decline bench, it's dangerous and not very beneficial. Replace with either flat bench or dips.

Dips kill my rotator cuff. I chose decline over flat because I would like to develop my lower pecs more. Other ideas for that?

2. Make sure you always do one pressing excersise that focuses on shoulder. The alternatives shouldn't be incline bench or overhead press. It should be seated military press, standing military press or seated dumbbell press.

I didn't realize there was much of a difference between seated overhead press and seated military press?

 

As for the other things, I have made some changes you guys recommended, but not all (you'll never take my ab raises!). Volume now seems high on leg day, with both squats and deads?

 

 

NEW 3-Day Split

 

Legs/Abs

5x5 Squats

5x5 Deadlift

3x8 Hamstring Machine

3x8 Calf Raises

2x15 Hanging Leg Raises

 

Chest/Shoulders

5x5 Decline Bench Press

5x5 Seated Military Press

3x8 Close-grip Bench Press

2x12 Side/Back Shoulder Raises

 

Back/Biceps

5x5 Lat Pulldown / Pull-ups

5x5 Bent-Over Rows

3x8 Seated Rows

3x8 DB Curls

[xjohanx]

Decline does not, to my knowledge, increase stress on the lower parts of your chest. Flat bench is the best excersise for chest development. Decline excerises puts an enormous pressure on the arteries in your neck and head and there are some case reports on people who've suffered strokes from doing decline presses, just FYI.

[cubby2112]

If you decline the bench as slightly as possible, it takes a lot of shoulder use out of the movement and puts more load on your pecs and triceps. It shouldn't create nearly the arterial pressure of a heavy decline, and since you aren't eating five pounds of burger a day, you should be safe.

[Vegan Joe]

1 hour of strenuous cardio might help that insomnia some. Just a thought.

[xjohanx]

If you decline the bench as slightly as possible, it takes a lot of shoulder use out of the movement and puts more load on your pecs and triceps. It shouldn't create nearly the arterial pressure of a heavy decline, and since you aren't eating five pounds of burger a day, you should be safe.

 

Even though this is true the arterial pressure will still be an issue. A dissection in a. vertebralis in young men is in over 50% of the cases caused by acute trauma and it's not necessarily dependent of your resting blood pressure. But besides this I have not seen any evidence that the decline bench compared to flat bench would be beneficial for lower chest development, at best I've seen slight increases in EMG activity but it's really far from reaching statistic significance. So from my viewpoint it looks like this

- There is no proven beneficial effect of this excersise compared to flat bench

- There is an increased risk of getting a stroke from this excersise compared to flat bench

- There is no good reason to do this excersise

 

I fail to see how not involving your shoulders in a compount movement is a good thing, specially when someone is planning to work their shoulders during the same training session. I'm pretty convinced that trying to "shape" muscles in a certain way like fallen_horse seems to want to do is mostly a waste of time and more importantly it "steals" time and energy from doing proper excersises.

Fallen_horse, how much do you bench? Flat bench I mean.

[xjohanx]

I'm pretty sure I've linked to this study before but hell I'll do it again.

 

http://www.usp.br/eef/efb/efb222/jcserrao/peito.pdf

 

Employing the decline press to recruit the sternocostal head of the pectoralis major is not justified because the EMG activity obtained from the horizontal press with either hand spacing exceeds that elicited during the decline press.

[pazios2002]

If you decline the bench as slightly as possible, it takes a lot of shoulder use out of the movement and puts more load on your pecs and triceps. It shouldn't create nearly the arterial pressure of a heavy decline, and since you aren't eating five pounds of burger a day, you should be safe.

 

I think that you would have to use a supine position with a block or something similar under the foot of the bench. Not all benches share the same holes. I have noticed that the slight decline does seem to change the focus abit, or I should say that the pain in my shoulders (when I have had pain in the shoulders) decreased and I was able to work the pecs longer. I chose the dip station for the "lower" pecs. The dip station further allows me to know when I am getting to fat. When the number of free dips go down the weight goes down. Also bending over the dip station could help this situation too. When I work out with someone else, I like to use a 3 foot level on the spine during dips to vary the relation of the dip to horizontal. Also it helps to keep my spine straight for the movement. I think that it is prettier when my spine is straight.

[cubby2112]

I'm pretty sure I've linked to this study before but hell I'll do it again.

 

http://www.usp.br/eef/efb/efb222/jcserrao/peito.pdf

 

Employing the decline press to recruit the sternocostal head of the pectoralis major is not justified because the EMG activity obtained from the horizontal press with either hand spacing exceeds that elicited during the decline press.

 

I don't believe in shaping muscles or focusing on the upper/lower pec by changing angles. The only way to really hit the clavicular heard harder than the sternal one, or the other way around, is to focus on shoulder flexion/extension, not angle of horizontal adduction. Even then, it really is a moot point, because your muscles are going to be shaped however they are genetically made to. They will just become bigger versions of themselves.

 

I wonder if that vascular pressure idea applies to decline crunches as well. I like doing heavy ass decline crunches, though I have decline benched only a total of five or so times in my life.

[Fallen_Horse]

Fallen_horse, how much do you bench? Flat bench I mean.

I did a 5x5 yesterday with 165lbs, so not much...

[xjohanx]

I did a 5x5 yesterday with 165lbs, so not much...

 

That's not bad at all but I think you should continue to do regular flat bench and get freaking strong before you start thinking about lower, upper and specific parts of your chest.

[cubby2112]

The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

Article: PDF Only

Effects of Variations of the Bench Press Exercise on the EMG Activity of Five Shoulder Muscles

Barnett, Chris; Kippers, Vaughan; Turner, Peter

 

 

Abstract

 

This experiment investigated the effects of varying bench inclination and hand spacing on the EMG activity of five muscles acting at the shoulder joint. Six male weight trainers performed presses under four conditions of trunk inclination and two of hand spacing at 80% of their predetermined max. Preamplified surface EMG electrodes were placed over the five muscles in question. The EMG signals during the 2-sec lift indicated some significant effects of trunk inclination and hand spacing. The sternocostal head of the pectoralis major was more active during the press from a horizontal bench than from a decline bench. Also, the clavicular head of the pectoralis major was no more active during the incline bench press than during the horizontal one, but it was less active during the decline bench press. The clavicular head of the pectoralis major was more active with a narrow hand spacing. Anterior deltoid activity tended to increase as trunk inclination increased. The long head of the triceps brachii was more active during the decline and flat bench presses than the other two conditions, and was also more active with a narrow hand spacing. Latissimus dorsi exhibited low activity in all conditions.