Think God would be vegan?

[Tarz]

I've read none of this thread yet, so dunno if this has been asked yet.

 

Do you think there is indeed a God CG?

[michaelhobson]

I've read none of this thread yet, so dunno if this has been asked yet.

 

Do you think there is indeed a God CG?

 

OH NO! YOU DIDN'T!

 

Duck down before some flying object hits you in the head.

[CrispyQ]

However with the talks of Mercy, Kindness, and such, this is where Christians are hypocrites. "Animals have no soul, only people do" which gives them an excuse to put animals through factory farms, vivisections, etc.

 

Ok God is loving, kind, merciful, yet we will only accept the parts that benefit us. I believe in God and I know for sure that what people are doing today is not acceptable. This world is corrupt and it is sickening. It is backwards from what religions speak of, and is against morals most importantly.

 

All animals will go to heaven. All people? Thats a whole different matter. If I was God I would not spare people at all, what a horrible race. But then again, I aint.

 

I just cant wait till the day we are erradicated from this earth. Wars dont seem like such a bad thing now...

 

 

Koll, with the exception of believing in G-d & souls, I agree with what you said, especially the erradication of our species.

 

If humans are the only creatures with souls then we have an obligation to hold ourselves to a higher standard & treat those without souls with compassion, kindness & care. What a tragic statement about us that we claim to have souls & yet we behave in the apalling way that we do.

 

The way we treat animals is abominable. It's inhumane. I always wonder at the irony of our species name being based on the root word humane. I think it's time to change our species name to inhumans.

[Guest]

I posted the following on Vegan Fitness on 17 July 2004.

 

I don't think the Judeo-Christian God likes vegans. I mean think of Cain and Abel. Two brothers that made an offering to God. Cain raised crops and made an offering of vegetables and it was rejected. Able raised animals and offered dead flesh and God was like "Cool, I'll accept that."

 

Afterwards, Cain killed Abel. The Bible says Cain was jealous, but I think Cain just didn't want this whole animal agriculture thing to catch on, so basicly he was trying to nip it in the bud.

 

Anyway, I don't think God is vegan. Of course, as an agnostic I don't really think it matters.

[compassionategirl]

Thanks for your input on this topic Daniel.

 

I am curious about what your thoughts are on Jesus Christ. Assuming he existed, do you think that kindness and mercy for animals would have pleased him?

 

 

P.S. You avatar looks as pissed off as I still feel.

[Guest]

I am curious about what your thoughts are on Jesus Christ. Assuming he existed, do you think that kindness and mercy for animals would have pleased him?

Yes, that is possible given what I know about the mythology. I think mercy is very likely, since mercy is part of the dynamic of an unequal relationship of power. Mercy means kindness or forgiveness shown toward someone one has power over. After all, he is the LORD Jesus Christ. Only those who lord over others are in a position to show mercy. Animals shouldn't be in the position to need mercy. As for kindness, well that is in the definition of mercy.

[Jay]

http://media.putfile.com/Lady-Goes-Crazy-on-Trading-Spouses

[michaelhobson]

http://media.putfile.com/Lady-Goes-Crazy-on-Trading-Spouses

 

I saw that episode! I believe that is the ultimate outcome for christians!

[Crash]

...Um....may I say that apparently some of us have evolved and some of us have not ?

 

IMO anyone that carries on that way has got a serious mental defect. Not all people who believe in God and Jesus are like that. Unfortunately, there are zealots in every cause.

 

Also don't forget that that's the same show that made the vegan mom appear foolish when she traded places -- it doesn't mean all vegans are like her and the same applies here. No one I know is like the looney tune on the clip.

 

Still....thanks for the laughs (and winces) Jay.

[Jay]

I've known tons of christians like that. My dad once rented a house to a family the mom of which weighed probably a little more than that lady. She thought she saw the face of Jesus in the wood knots on her dresser. They brought out the local news and people would come to see it. Totally aside from that she was just totally nuts. Really something to behold. Once sued the city cause a tree branch in a park landed on her. Did all kinds of crazy things, constantly screaming and yelling.

 

A childhood friend married a deeply religious lady. The lady got it into her head that I was the devil and would erase my phone messages trying to get a hold of my friend then deny doing so. A few months later she ended up in a mental institution. She was also about 250 at 5'2"ish and screamed a hell of a lot. I remember if any halfway attractive women came on the TV she would turn the channel as her hubby couldn't be looking at that. At first I thought she was kidding, but she wasn't.

 

Anyway, I want to try to avoid ranting about this but it's really abosolutely totally absurd to even attempt to imply that vegans are anywhere near as likely to be nuts, stupid, whatever as christians.

[Crash]

Hmm...you have met some insane, idiotic people Jay (I always wanted to visit NM, but now .....)

Today in this country there are IDers in 20 states trying to force religion into the teachings of science. You've heard of that and are working to undo the damage they are doing right?

 

They want the "godidit" hypothesize to be taught as science. Imagine that. You're trying to understand an experiment. When the pressure in the chamber increases the temperature increases. Hmmm, why?

 

I know! Godidit!

 

And without them we wouldn't have just killed over 100,000 innocents in Iraq.

I've never heard of the IDers, so I can't have done anything about it. However, I have become increasingly worried about the current regime's increasing inclusion of church with state and the slow leeching of peoples' freedoms. Like others who see things they don't agree with, I write letters, sign petitions, and just plain vote for people who's ideologies aren't still in the Middle Ages. IMHO church and state should always be kept separate.

 

As for Iraq, I don't know what to think -- except that it was for a foothold in the Middle East. (That and Jr seems to like to clean up after Sr. )

 

But neither has to do with what God and Jesus meant and wanted Jay, only what flawed people, who purport to know what God and Jesus meant and wanted, say.

[Jay]

I erased that because I'm really trying to not be so confrontational yet this issue really means a lot to me.

 

You see, I consider Christianity the most vile thing ever to hit humanity. It is responsible for billions of deaths and trillions of life years of misery. And it's hard to just let it continue without even saying anything.

 

All the christians voted for Bush. http://www.mourningthevote.com/election.htm

(see moral values) And that's why 100,000+ have died so far in Iraq.

[Crash]

Anyway, I want to try to avoid ranting about this but it's really abosolutely totally absurd to even attempt to imply that vegans are anywhere near as likely to be nuts, stupid, whatever as christians.

What I "said" Jay is the show made the vegan mom to look stupid, just as the show made (or in this case found) a religious nutcase. They obviously want extremes for their show as ratings will not be gained with a nice, calm, pleasant show where everyone gets along.

 

As for alot of death and destruction happening in the name of Christianity, I agree. I also agree that there were and are alot of stupid and insane people who zealously believe in their cause and commit heinous acts because of it -- but God and Jesus are not responsible for that. The ones responsible are those, who incited and who committed the acts. I'd also like to point out that even if there wasn't such a thing as Christianity, people who want to control and manipulate others would have found another reason to go to war and cause the mass destruction of those who don't agree with them, just so they could have control and power.

[Jay]

I'd also like to point out that even if there wasn't such a thing as Christianity, people who want to control and manipulate others would have found another reason to go to war and cause the mass destruction of those who don't agree with them, just so they could have control and power.

 

OK that is true.

 

But what other than the promise of heaven would help so many become consoled to their slavelike existence instead of rising up and revolting?

 

What other than religion would get any benefit from setting back science centuries if not a millenium?

 

I suppose without it people would still eat meat but it sure gives them an easy out. I've met more than one person who was deeply offended that I was vegan for ethical reasons because god "told" them they were supposed to eat meat.

 

BTW,

An IDer is someone who believes in Intelligent Design as opposed to evolution. ID is a fancy word for God did it. They want to force "Godidit" back into science.

[Richard]

Jay, I sympathize with you greatly in this thread, along with the other agnostics / atheists. But I never heard of a religious person changing their views on their religion via logical conversation. So it's just going to stress you out and not really get anywhere. I think people stop believing in their religion when something dramatic happens in their life that makes them think 'Crap, if my religion is real, then it's pretty shitty to allow this kind of thing to happen to me'. But until then, there's nothing to kind of shake them out of what they've been brought up with, because what they believe in is so vague it can't even be discussed because it's 'interpreted' however they want. So leave em to it

[Crash]

But what other than the promise of heaven would help so many become consoled to their slavelike existence instead of rising up and revolting?

But accepting something to get a reward has not been exculsively Christian Jay. There were sacrifices made by the Incas to their gods for various reasons, some were prisoners of war, but others lived like gods for one year. It's always been about getting people to do what you want whether the dieties existed or not.

What other than religion would get any benefit from setting back science centuries if not a millenium?

You are right that religion does get benefits from dictating to people what to do, what to say and what to believe -- but those decisions are made by men and women -- not deities. The Taliban set back women's rights and science back centuries, because under their "law" women were considered property not people with rights. Women were committing suicide because they couldn't cope with this.

I suppose without it people would still eat meat but it sure gives them an easy out. I've met more than one person who was deeply offended that I was vegan for ethical reasons because god "told" them they were supposed to eat meat.

People did eat meat before Christianity and I too have met alot of people that say God gave man "dominion over the animals, which in many of their minds believes they can do whatever they want with animals -- which I believe is a bunch of crap. I've made my mom furious because I dared to tell women in the church that wearing fur is wrong. Believe me, I understand your frustration !

BTW, An IDer is someone who believes in Intelligent Design as opposed to evolution. ID is a fancy word for God did it. They want to force "Godidit" back into science.

Thank you for the definition. I try to keep an open mind about everything as long as it doesn't harm anyone or anything.

there's nothing to kind of shake them out of what they've been brought up with, because what they believe in is so vague it can't even be discussed because it's 'interpreted' however they want. So leave em to it

We're just discussing things Richard. I think we all know there is no right or wrong in this conversation -- I have my opinon and Jay has his opinion. However, no one will change anything if they do not discuss things. And confidentially Richard....I have been known to change my mind on occasion..

[CrispyQ]

For a species that claims to have souls (humans) & that other species do not, have souls, we humans behave in a soul-less manner.

 

Wouldn't a species with a soul behave with a higher level of compassion, a higher level of integrity, than species without a soul? Yet, my observation of human beings shows me otherwise. ...cry

[Jay]

Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things -- that takes religion.

-- Steven Weinberg

[Michelle]

Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things -- that takes religion.

-- Steven Weinberg

 

I like this quote! So true...

[kollision]

For a species that claims to have souls (humans) & that other species do not, have souls, we humans behave in a soul-less manner.

 

Wouldn't a species with a soul behave with a higher level of compassion, a higher level of integrity, than species without a soul? Yet, my observation of human beings shows me otherwise. ...cry

 

I totally agree with that. We sure display that we have souls when we buy that hamburger that fills us up for 10 minutes, which took an animals life in torture. What a soul what a soul...

[Crash]

For a species that claims to have souls (humans) & that other species do not, have souls, we humans behave in a soul-less manner.

Agreed CrispyQ -- it's called greed. However, I believe that animals have souls as well. There have been many reports of ghostly dogs and cats (yeah I know.....I'm a weirdo )

Wouldn't a species with a soul behave with a higher level of compassion, a higher level of integrity, than species without a soul? Yet, my observation of human beings shows me otherwise. ...cry

I also agree with this - to a certain extent. Most people who are in power want to remain in power by whatever means necessary. These people do not care about what happens to others -- environment, species, etc, only about getting their profits. These people are truly soul-less.

Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things -- that takes religion.

-- Steven Weinberg

Unfortunately history has shown this to be true ...

[willpeavy]

I think anyone interested in promoting veganism should study the early history of Christianity very closely. The Christians went from a rebellious cult on the fringes of society to the dominant religion in the Western world in a little over 300 years. There is a lot to learn from their path

[jonathan]

veganism is not a cult or a religion though, so the comparison isnt really valid.

[willpeavy]

veganism is not a cult or a religion though, so the comparison isnt really valid.

 

I think you missed my point. Whether veganism is a cult or religion is irrelevant. The point is that there is a lot to learn from the growth of Christianity than can be applied to cause the "philosophy" (or "way of life" whatever term you wish to use) of veganism to grow

[jonathan]

i didnt miss the point. my point is that religion gains a foothold by playing on the fears and insecurities of the uneducated. it was particularly effective then as there was so little know of science. veganism is not comparable, as it requires the person to have a certain level of intelligence that is absent in many devoutly religious people.