American Troops Caught Beating Iraqi Children

[veganmonk]

[bronco]

Ah, US army in all it's glory. Bastards.

[_raVen_]

Ah, US army in all it's glory. Bastards.

 

Yea, no other armies bask in such glory

[loveliberate]

Thanks for posting that Monk.

[nicole]

I'm confused because the person filming (I'm guessing that wasn't dubbed in after?) does not have an american accent. I don't know what each military wears in combat, so I don't actually have the ability to tell that this is the US army.

 

Also, the person in the video says that the teens were shooting at the military, which adds another layer to the story and doesn't just make this "random beatings." It's not like these are 5 year old kids and I think the word "children" really plays on people's emotions rather than presenting things as they are.

 

I suspect that whatever happened BEFORE the military moves forward was edited out to create a more one-sided story, so I'd like to see the rest before passing any judgement.

 

It's not at all that I don't think that the military are (unfortunately) capable of horrible acts, but I'm just not a very reactionary person and don't believe something like this without seeing the full picture.

[loveliberate]

Good points to consider Nicole. Do you have any more info on the video or incident Monk? Beating the people is most likely not at all justifiable legally from what the video shows.

 

It's not like these are 5 year old kids and I think the word

"children" really plays on people's emotions rather than presenting things as they are.

 

A particularly good point. In discussions of "gun control", people often refer to "all the kids killed by gun violence" but rarely to the fact that many/most of these "children" are teenagers involved in gangs &/or drug-dealing...

[bronco]

I'm confused because the person filming (I'm guessing that wasn't dubbed in after?) does not have an american accent. I don't know what each military wears in combat, so I don't actually have the ability to tell that this is the US army.

Yeah, this is true, it's hard to verify that it's actually US army without expert knowledge of the uniforms I guess. Could also be other occupational forces, or the marines perhaps?

 

Also, the person in the video says that the teens were shooting at the military, which adds another layer to the story and doesn't just make this "random beatings." It's not like these are 5 year old kids and I think the word "children" really plays on people's emotions rather than presenting things as they are.

To be honest I think it's a quite unlikely that the kids would come out unharmed from a firefight with the occupational forces, but it's possible I guess. I think the point however is that the troops are beating helpless prisoners, not wether the prisoners were guilty of anything or not. Personally I regard teenagers as children, at least until they are 19 or so. And I dont think it would make much difference if it was grown ups they were beating up.

 

It's not at all that I don't think that the military are (unfortunately) capable of horrible acts, but I'm just not a very reactionary person and don't believe something like this without seeing the full picture.

Sadly, I find this easy to believe because it's nothing exceptional, just some beatings. Worse things have been done.

 

Good points to consider Nicole. Do you have any more info on the video or incident Monk? Beating the people is most likely not at all justifiable legally from what the video shows.

Hmm, I find it hard to imagine what could make it justifiable?

 

A particularly good point. In discussions of "gun control", people often refer to "all the kids killed by gun violence" but rarely to the fact that many/most of these "children" are teenagers involved in gangs &/or drug-dealing...

You mean that its ok if kids involved in drugbusiness and gangs get killed? Nice.

[loveliberate]

Hmm, I find it hard to imagine what could make it justifiable?

Nothing would make it legally justifiable - that was my point. I apologize for not making that more clear.

 

You mean that its ok if kids involved in drugbusiness and gangs get killed? Nice

I should have seen that coming... No, it does not make it "ok" but to quote Nicole: "It's not like these are 5 year old kids and I think the word "children" really plays on people's emotions rather than presenting things as they are." It's a very different situation when you are dealing with folks who a) are fully aware and responsable for their own actions and who b) choose to engage in risky behaviour, but some folks choose to twist facts & statistics to make things seem very different than they really are. Theres quite a difference between an 18 year old and a 5 year old but they are both legally considered children.

 

That is what I mean.

[bronco]

Hmm, I find it hard to imagine what could make it justifiable?

Nothing would make it legally justifiable - that was my point. I apologize for not making that more clear.

Ah, ok.

 

I should have seen that coming... No, it does not make it "ok" but to quote Nicole: "It's not like these are 5 year old kids and I think the word "children" really plays on people's emotions rather than presenting things as they are." It's a very different situation when you are dealing with folks who a) are fully aware and responsable for their own actions and who b) choose to engage in risky behaviour, but some folks choose to twist facts & statistics to make things seem very different than they really are. Theres quite a difference between an 18 year old and a 5 year old but they are both legally considered children.

 

That is what I mean.

First, of course I understand that you didnt mean that its ok that kids get killed, apologies for being unnecessarily sarcastic.

I agree that facts and statistics are allways being twisted, but I still dont see your point in these cases. Lots of kids get killed by firearms. This is appearantly presented as "Lots of kids get killed by firearms" . In what way is this twisting the truth? The fact that some of the kids may be involved in gang- and drug activities doesnt change the facts that a) They are kids, and b) They get killed by firearms.

As for the video, what very much looks like a kid ( I agree that it could possibly be a small adult, but it doesnt look like it) gets beaten up, and this is what the title says. I dont see how this could be twisting the facts either. Of course the title doesnt tell the whole story, because it's a title, not an article.

I also agree that there is a difference between dealing with kids and grown ups, but in this case I think it doesnt make a qualitative difference if the victim is 14, 20 or 45, the beatings are not justifiable anyway.

[finbarrio]

That's an unfortunate display of violence, but I agree that the title "Iraq boys beaten" is misleading. The Iraqis "boys" (who I'd guess are between maybe 14 - 19) were clearly involved in an organized and violent demonstration. And some are clearly resisiting "arrest". Nevertheless, some of the strikes and kicks by the US troops were definitely excessive.

If that was a riot in a US city, and those troops were US police officers who were brought to trial on excessive force charges, I'd bet on them being acquitted (assuming the prisoners lived).

 

The narration is weird, almost like it was added after the fact as some perverted masochistic joke.

[offense74]

I wonder what it is that makes us point finger at one person/organisation and not the other? In the post-war in Iraq there have been some horrific crimes made by the opposing forces in Iraq. There are no demonstrations against that violence. There are also no demonstrations against Hezbollah even though they launch missiles from urban territories onto schools and other civilian targets.

It's wrong of the soldiers in the video to beat up the "children". It was wrong of the US to attack Iraq. It's wrong for the Israelis to build a wall on another countrys territory. It is wrong of Hezbollah to launch missiles against civilians. It's wrong of the terrorists in Iraq that kill civilians to do this.

Stating your point by using physical force or threat thereof is wrong. Period.

 

Yet some people are marching the streets like this is some kind of football match where you root for the underdog and thereby give them the right to use whatever methods necessary to win the match. This is not a call for peace. A demonstration against violence would be.

[finbarrio]

It's wrong of the soldiers in the video to beat up the "children". It was wrong of the US to attack Iraq. It's wrong for the Israelis to build a wall on another countrys territory. It is wrong of Hezbollah to launch missiles against civilians. It's wrong of the terrorists in Iraq that kill civilians to do this.

Stating your point by using physical force or threat thereof is wrong. Period.

 

Right on

[nicole]

I was talking to my husband over dinner and described the video to him. He said that he had read an article which was the story behind this particular video and that the troops are actually British, not American (which would explain the accent of the cameraman). I asked him to look for the article and if he finds it again, I will post it.

[nicole]

Ooop, didn't even have to wait that long. Here's what you're looking for: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4705482.stm.