cubby2112

Nope I study nutrition to become a nutritionist / nutritional physiologist. Dietician has a completely different education over here and does not have the scientific ground that we have (biochem, organic chem, molecular biology, microbiology, genetics, physiology etc). My education has nothing to do with patient care while that is the main focus of dieticians.

 

that sounds awesome. and mind boggling.

 

Cubby's I can wrap my head around.

 

and thanks for the answers. I was wondering where you guys learned all these fancy words.

Yeah, I think Johan and Medman are much smarter and in much more complicated programs. If you want some answers to complex questions, they are the ones to ask.

Nope I study nutrition to become a nutritionist / nutritional physiologist. Dietician has a completely different education over here and does not have the scientific ground that we have (biochem, organic chem, molecular biology, microbiology, genetics, physiology etc). My education has nothing to do with patient care while that is the main focus of dieticians.

Oh yeah, I remember having that dietician discussion with you once.

Boy, thanks. Glad I asked.

 

Waste of my fucking time.

Johan is majoring in nutrition to become a dietician I believe. Medman is in the medical field, I am not sure where exactly. I am studying exercise science.

Creatine must be attached to another molecule to hang out on the shelf and be stable until you buy it, mix it, and consume it. Once consumed, it breaks down into its components: creatine + whatever the hell else it's attached to.

 

If you, like most people (including myself), are taking creatine monohydrate, you are taking creatine + salt, which is why you feel "fluffy." This is also how creatine got the bad reputation of "only making you gain water weight, not real muscle" and is also why you may find yourself more thirsty when you supplement with this. There are other options, like Kre-Alkalyn, creatine ethyl ester, creatine hydrochloride, and creatine gluconate.

I had no idea it was attached to a salt molecule. I always thought it was a creatine molecule attached to a hydrogen molecule and maybe citrate. I used to use kre-alkalyn. It was actually the first stuff I tried. I got the same results from it as from monohydrate, but didn't notice any sort of water retention with it. I have used mono since, because of all the studies, price, etc.

Since Medman sees bloat with CEE, does that include salt as well?

what on EARTH do you guys have degrees in?

 

Awesomeness.

And sex.

Squats definitely are a varied lift as far as depth goes, since most people don't even go near parallel. That is what I love about deadlifts. Pretty hard to cheat.

Johan posted some good articles.

 

My take: fitness should always be about fun, in addition to everything else (health, appearance, self-esteem, achieving goals, etc). Only hardcore distance training is truly antithetical to strength training, both in terms of the types of muscle fibers they train, as well as the metabolic pathways they strengthen. Honestly, to take a step back from the biochemistry for a second, consider the quads of competitive sprinters. I have trouble seeing anyone make an argument that sprinting would prevent quad strengthening or hypertrophy . You enjoy HIIT? Go for it.

 

As for that study about sprinting interfering with metabolic pathways related to resistance training...first off, the study had a sample size of 6, which makes any results pretty suspect in the first place. Secondly, they looked at sprinting (which is quad-dominated) and leg extension (which is straight up quads) done in the same day. Common sense would dictate that you would never do these on the same day because of interference between the two, and you said yourself that you aren't. So I wouldn't worry about a (potentially unreliable) study looking at a different training situation than yours.

Thanks for the explanation. I need to pay more attention to sample size.

You are right about sprinters' quads. Most are pretty shredded all over, even though they mostly work legs when sprinting.

Oh and btw, sprinting is very functional.

Oh good, I was about to punch myself in my face tonight while sprinting to find out. You saved me a bloody nose.

Thanks for the links. I will look into that stuff. Our snow just melted, so it is time for some sprinting, walking and biking.

Currently the thing that is holding be back in squats is pain in my right wrist. It's a shooting pain that seems to show up anytime I go 125 lbs or over for squats. I've never had a wrist injury so I'm not sure what's going on. Is this normal? Is there something I should be doing to fix it?

 

 

yeah you should use your legs.

I like to really bring my eyelids into my squats, actually. I close them really hard when I go down, then open them explosively on the way up. It works wonders.

I opened this mainly because Johan mentioned something about this on another thread, and I have been wondering about it anyway. I did not want to hijack the thread.

I have a mild understanding of the mTOR pathway, but we haven't gotten to these types of metabolic pathways yet in school. I hope we do get to them at some point. Anyway, I am pretty sure sprinting would activate the mTOR pathway, since it is a mostly anaerobic activity. The only problem is, it is followed by a very heavy aerobic recovery period before the next sprint. I know that sprinting activates protein synthesis, but does anyone (Johan, Medman - nudge nudge) know whether sprinting sends "mixed signals" and blunts protein synthesis initiated by resistance training? I ask because sprinting is great for conditioning, I love it and I like to be fast. It has also been found to be equivalent to traditional cardio for heart health in at least one study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18434437?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

According to this study, when sprints and resistance training were undertaken, sprinting interfered with the metabolic pathways opened by resistance training:

Am J Physiol Regul Integr Comp Physiol 297: R1441-R1451, 2009. First published August 19, 2009

 

Effect of consecutive repeated sprint and resistance exercise bouts on acute adaptive responses in human skeletal muscle

Vernon G. Coffey,1 Bozena Jemiolo,2 Johann Edge,3,4 Andrew P. Garnham,5 Scott W. Trappe,2 and John A. Hawley1

 

1Exercise Metabolism Group, School of Medical Science, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia; 2Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University, Indiana; 3Sport and Exercise Science Division, Institute of Food, Nutrition and Human Health, Massey University, New Zealand; 4Department of Sport and Exercise, University of Auckland, New Zealand; and 5School of Exercise and Nutrition Sciences, Deakin University, Melbourne, Australia

 

Submitted June 19, 2009 ; accepted in final form August 18, 2009

 

We examined acute molecular responses in skeletal muscle to repeated sprint and resistance exercise bouts. Six men [age, 24.7 ± 6.3 yr; body mass, 81.6 ± 7.3 kg; peak oxygen uptake, 47 ± 9.9 ml·kg–1·min–1; one repetition maximum (1-RM) leg extension 92.2 ± 12.5 kg; means ± SD] were randomly assigned to trials consisting of either resistance exercise (8 x 5 leg extension, 80% 1-RM) followed by repeated sprints (10 x 6 s, 0.75 N·m torque·kg–1) or vice-versa. Muscle biopsies from vastus lateralis were obtained at rest, 15 min after each exercise bout, and following 3-h recovery to determine early signaling and mRNA responses. There was divergent exercise order-dependent phosphorylation of p70 S6K (S6K). Specifically, initial resistance exercise increased S6K phosphorylation (~75% P < 0.05), but there was no effect when resistance exercise was undertaken after sprints. Exercise decreased IGF-I mRNA following 3-h recovery (~50%, P = 0.06) independent of order, while muscle RING finger mRNA was elevated with a moderate exercise order effect (P < 0.01). When resistance exercise was followed by repeated sprints PGC-1{alpha} mRNA was increased (REX1-SPR2; P = 0.02) with a modest distinction between exercise orders. Repeated sprints may promote acute interference on resistance exercise responses by attenuating translation initiation signaling and exacerbating ubiquitin ligase expression. Indeed, repeated sprints appear to generate the overriding acute exercise-induced response when undertaking concurrent repeated sprint and resistance exercise. Accordingly, we suggest that sprint-activities are isolated from resistance training and that adequate recovery time is considered within periodized training plans that incorporate these divergent exercise modes.

If it will interfere with resistance training significantly, I will avoid it. As it stands, I always sprint the day after lower body day, which comes around every 4-5 days.

And the other question: Does low intensity stuff like walking or a casual bike ride activate AMPK and such? I am talking something around 50% MHR at most. The guys doing Doggcrapp seem to do quite well with this type of activity, which they use to keep body fat low while gaining.

Maybe try some wider grips or wrist wraps. Work on wrist and internal shoulder rotator flexibility, as well as external rotator and wrist strength.

 

I get how to work on wrist strength (wrist curls?) but how would I work on wrist and internal shoulder rotator flexibility and external rotator strength?

Face pulls with external rotation work great. So do dumbbell and cable external rotations. For stretching your internal rotators, try cable internal rotations, but don't actually do the exercise, just let the cable stretch you out. Some of the exercises are here:

http://askthetrainer.com/rotator-cuff-exercises.html

Basically, these may help you get the flexibility to put the bar on the right part of your back, relieving stress on your wrists, if flexibility is the issue. Most people can use strengthening of the external rotators and stretching of the internal ones, anyway. You might already have the flexibility to place the bar properly, and you just need to learn placement, like xCx said. Or it could just be a death grip, as suggested above.

Here are a couple wrist stretches:

http://thesafe-zone.com/images/wrist-exer-multi.gif

Those may help if wrist flexibility is an issue, or if you have a little tendonitis or something in your wrists that is being bothered by squatting. If you have flexible wrists, I wouldn't worry about this.

toe with a lite graze of the heel. I going to a pose cert next weekend maybe that will help my form.

Yeah, that may help. I don't do a whole shit ton of running, so that may be why I haven't come into any trouble. I think most runners who use them, though, don't have trouble with bruising their calcanei, but usually issues with the balls of their feet. I had some bruising on the balls of my feet until they toughened up. Or at least they felt like bruises.

Maybe try some wider grips or wrist wraps. Work on wrist and internal shoulder rotator flexibility, as well as external rotator and wrist strength.

The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

Article: PDF Only

Effects of Variations of the Bench Press Exercise on the EMG Activity of Five Shoulder Muscles

Barnett, Chris; Kippers, Vaughan; Turner, Peter

 

 

Abstract

 

This experiment investigated the effects of varying bench inclination and hand spacing on the EMG activity of five muscles acting at the shoulder joint. Six male weight trainers performed presses under four conditions of trunk inclination and two of hand spacing at 80% of their predetermined max. Preamplified surface EMG electrodes were placed over the five muscles in question. The EMG signals during the 2-sec lift indicated some significant effects of trunk inclination and hand spacing. The sternocostal head of the pectoralis major was more active during the press from a horizontal bench than from a decline bench. Also, the clavicular head of the pectoralis major was no more active during the incline bench press than during the horizontal one, but it was less active during the decline bench press. The clavicular head of the pectoralis major was more active with a narrow hand spacing. Anterior deltoid activity tended to increase as trunk inclination increased. The long head of the triceps brachii was more active during the decline and flat bench presses than the other two conditions, and was also more active with a narrow hand spacing. Latissimus dorsi exhibited low activity in all conditions.

Johan just said that because he happened to have just put a new quote from me in his signature. That quote was in response to people being elitist and extremist about functional training, it wasn't anti-functional training. He wasn't trying to stir the pot.

The second point is this: They claim that the HSPs have to be consumed without fibre, so eating the cactus wouldn't help you. Didn't they just argue that eating the cactus was exactly what was benefitting these animals they point to as evidence?

That was my main contention. I never ended up trying it, because I couldn't find any studies or anything on it, just marketing claims. That and the gelatin only capsule. You have a good point: I could just go to a Twilight convention. That alone would elicit a much greater stress response than any supplement ever could. Great way to get some CNS burnout.

Like everything else in diet and fitness, people take the "functional" thing too far.

 

Free weights = functional. If you're literally only doing isolation exercises on machines and nothing else, then I'd agree that you could afford to train more functionally. If you're doing all or mostly free weights, you're plenty functional.

Exactly. I have nothing against functional training, and my masters program is actually based heavily on it. For the average trainee, using free weights and doing compound movements is more than enough. If you are preparing for a sport, you may want to supplement your big movements with some more sport specific ones.

That Iron Minds belt sounds like a beast. I may have to grab one if I destroy mine at some point.

functional movements

 

...

Lol

I never had a lean 6 pack so i wouldn't know.But when i've been on creatine i never noticed the extra water on me.

Some people seem to get it and some people don't. Do you respond well to it?

glad to see you back on here. I got calcaneus bursitus from running in my five fingers so im going to give inov8s a try. Hope you get some more clients!

Thank you.

Were you running heel-toe or toe-heel with them? I wear them at all times, and always use a toe-heel strike, even when just walking around.

How much do you take a day? I usually have no problems with just 5mg.. There's no need to "load" on it, in case you were doing that.

 

Nah, did the loading phase a few months ago. I usually do 6g a day, because that is what 2tsp comes out to, and that makes things easy. I think the amount of water retention I get from it has to do with the fact that I respond so well to it. Basically, it means that my body can really hold onto some creatine.

I'm not sure what that has to do with this topic. Also there is a great search function on this forum http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8869

 

he asked how to do a 30p/50c/20f on a vegan diet. supplementing with pea protein (25p,4c,1f) is how i achieve that ratio. im not an authority, so i didn't want to recommend it without having researched thoroughly myself... which is why i added the line about not knowing the quality of it as a protein source.

 

and yes i will search first next time. although so far most of the 24 pages for "pea" are about taste or recipes. i did see two posts by you that it is slow/low absorption.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8869

If you look there, it shows you the ratio of leucine to isoleucine and valine, the BCAAs, of various powders. And if you look further down, you will see that Gemma pea protein from True Protein ranks above 100 for its amino acid score. Due to its high digestibility, over 90%, it likely would score a 1 for PDCAAS, or damned close, which means it is an "ideal" protein. If you throw in a 30% mixture of rice from True Protein, the score goes even higher, but PDCAAS is normalized to 1. Basically, that mixture of pea and rice is the best vegan protein powder you can get.

Bottom line if someone is lifting heavy free weights they're strong. You don't have to be able to squat on a swiss ball lol

Exactly. If someone can squat a shitload of weight, do you think they are going to have issues with stability?

About time to update this. I am running a variation on Iron Addict's Simple Power-Based Routine (SPBR). I don't like exercising my upper back along with legs, leaving chest, shoulders and tris on a day all their own.

Everything is submaximal except the Max Effort (ME) top set

Upper 1

ME triple of dips, reduce weight 5% for a 2x4 or so

ME triple for chins, same protocol as dips

5x5-8 dips

5x5-8 DB bench rows

3x5-8 military

Lower 1

ME Deadlift triple, same protocol, maybe one less set

Leg press 2-3x5-8

ME Calf press triple, 2x4 or so

3x5-8 abs

Grip and static core work

Upper 2

ME bench triple, 2x4 or so

ME pull-up triple, 2x4 or so

5x5-8 incline DB bench

5x5-8 supinated grip chest-supported DB rows

3x5-8 upright rows

Lower 2

ME Pin paused squat triple, 2x4

Glute-ham raise 3x5-8

ME calf raise triple, 2x4

3x5-8 abs

Grip and static core work

The ME calf presses may seem weird, but I've found the best calf growth from going extremely heavy with them. Also, I get plenty of volume and TUT from walking and running, since I wear Vibram Five Fingers and use a toe-heel gait pattern, which gives me plenty of eccentric loading.

Since changing to a lower volume of work (I only work out three days per week, rotating between these workouts), I have felt a lot more aggressive at all times, and much more excited about my workouts. I didn't think I could enjoy deadlifting more than I used to, but I do. Deadlift day is today, and I am psyched. I think the lower levels of stress I am placing on my body have allowed my testosterone levels to increase or something.

My new signature

Sweet!