cubby2112

What Joe said. One reason you might find better results on animal protein is because of hormones and other growth factors. That said, animal protein does raise levels of IGF-1 to a greater extent than most plant proteins (save for processed ones, which still might not approach animal products, I don't have specific studies comparing the two). This issue here is that IGF-1 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor), besides signaling anabolism, also signal growth elsewhere, including cancer cells. Give and take. There is one study showing that a highly alkaline (vegan or mostly vegan) diet seems to prevent sarcopenia (muscle waisting) in the elderly. Whether this carries over to a young person trying to build muscle, I don't know. In the end, I think meat probably has a slight advantage. Nothing major, though.

1 g/lb should be just fine. I've found better results with higher protein, but that is probably hard for women to do, with not as many expendable calories.

Squatting in the curl rack! You animal!

I was certified through a school specifically for personal training - NPTI. I actually did most of it in the Boston area, Waltham to be exact. Look up their site, I highly recommend the Boston school. The teachers there are amazing. Much more so than the Chicago school I transferred to. Other than that, look into NASM, ACSM, NSCA, ISSA or ACE. At least around Illinois, they are the best known. Might be different for Boston, I didn't spend enough time there to find out.

Sweet, I love Emilie Autumn! Maybe this is why Bryan from VAC promoted her so much when she was first starting.

I love it. It is morbid, but I love morbid art. Especially morbid and abstract. I will only get a tattoo if it is morbid in some way, because I am more likely to appreciate it in the long run, haha. I am working on an animal rights/atheist combo tattoo with my artist. She isn't vegan, but got all vegan supplies just for me. Right now, my animal rights tattoo just says vegan on my left arm, but it will be expanded into a full sleeve, hopefully soon. I am itching for a partner for my other sleeve.

Try chewing some fennel seeds after meals for a few days, or crushing some seeds and steeping them for tea. I always chew some after a meal, because I eat a ton of beans. They help immensely.

so i am thinking i am going to try this. I just did a 12 day juice feast, and I was afraid it was gonna suck, because who wants to not eat for 12 days. Well, itsucked for about 3 days, then I actually felt awesome. If I wasnt so scared of losing more weight, I probably would have kept going...well that and it's expensive. But I'm now back to eating 3 meals a day (down from the 6 I used to eat and despised), but I can already tell that I just dont feel as *good* as I did while doing nothing but liquids. My physique goals are currently just to get down to about 18% bf, which is where I used to be, right now i think i'm around 21.... :-/ (haha, it sucks to actually type that to the public.) but I dont really want to lose any more than 5 lbs tops to do it.

 

I figured i's ask johan and cubby, since you guys seem to be the IF experts! I dont really know what I should be aiming to eat, as far as amounts go. I have strayed from my high protein ways. eating 150 g protein was just hellish for me, but it was nearly all shakes before. I've moved more towards whole foods, although I always have protein powder around if need be. I am cool with skipping breakfast and starting eating around 3 pm, as my last meal is usually at about 10:30, and I can workoiut somewhere in that window. Any other advice you could offer would be swell!

 

Also, what are the effects of having a "cheat" day every other week or so? ( i usually go out for breakfast with a friend a couple times a month)

 

Thanks for your thoughts guys, and thanks for doing all this research so us lazies dont have to <3

If you want to follow Martin Berkhan's method, the guy from leangains.com, you can have a longer feeding windows as a woman, about nine hours. Due to hormonal differences, most women apparently find it easier to follow a 8-10 hours feeding window, instead of the common 7-9. As far as what amounts to eat, basically the same amount you eat right now. You MAY find yourself become leaner on the same number of calories, as has been found for some in the Ramadan studies. I don't know the possible mechanism behind this, but my guess is that de novo lipogenesis probably happens to a much greater extent with big meals than small ones. Basically, the body tries to convert more carbs to fat, instead of storing as glycogen or burning them, and therefore loses about 1/4 of the energy in the conversion. So, I would say, eat the same number of calories you normally do, minus a small amount to lose weight slowly, then reevalute several weeks later.

I agree about feeling better during a fast. You can concentrate more and feel more like moving. That is why I take the opportunity to go for a walk during them, but also because fat burning is generally ramped up a bit.

Whole foods are a great idea, but I find I get too much fiber with them, but I am going for a high protein intake, which equals lots of beans. I am going for something more along the lines of 80-90% whole foods now (still with lots of veggies, of course, which are part of the fiber problem). I think you have a good idea with keeping the shakes around.

Cheating every other week or so is fine. If it is one meal, it will not hurt anything. If you want, you can just make the rest of that day high protein and low in other calories, or just not worry about it at all. Depends on how it affects your goals.

You sure you picked up Yohimbine not Yohimbe. Yohimbe if I remember correctly is for male sexual enhancement.

They're sort of the same thing. Yohimbe contains yohimbine. My bottle states: "Yohimbe Bark Extract (Pausinystalia yohimba)(2% Yohimbine Alkaloids = 9 mg) 450mg".

Yohimbine HCL is also marketed towards male sexual enhancement, it was pretty much thrown out as a bodybuilding supplement years ago because it failed to boost testosterone. But its use weight loss gets mixed reviews.

Yeah, they are similar. Yohimbine is supposed to help you get it up, because it increases blood flow. I think it is basically useless for weight loss unless you are already pretty lean. It helps with the last few pounds.

This looks promising. I'll have to see if I can find some of this stuff locally, I just received an order of 16lb of protein and 2lbs of creatine yesterday from TP, so I won't be reordering anytime soon.

 

I'm a bit confused by the wording of study abstract though. How can fat decrease if both muscle and body mass stayed the same?

That confused me too the first time I read the study. It says their body mass did not change significantly, but their fat mass did. I figure they said that, because, say two pounds is an insignificant change in total body mass, but if those two pounds lost are all fat, and the subjects are lean, that is a significant change in fat mass.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/volk/yohimbine-02.htm

Bumped into this. Seems to be a fairly reliable article. Has lots of information on yohimbine, and cites a lot of studies I want to have a look at.

Milk has mammalian estrogens, which are far more potent than phytoestrogens. Phytoestrogens are pro- and anti-estrogenic. Mammalian estrogens are basically only pro-estrogenic. Milk, like all other animal products, is far more highly concentrated in xenoestrogens. People grow fine on tons of milk. I wouldn't worry. There are some stickies around here on soy. Give them a read.

Haha, yeah, that smell would keep me away, too. I had to look up DMSO. So, the idea is, DMSO penetrates the skin, so yohimbine can enter in a specific area easily?

But yeah, the yohimbine is working quite well. It seemed to take a few days before anything really started to happen, but these last couple days, each morning I have had less of a pouch down there. I expected a little something to happen in a few weeks of use, but never imagined it would happen this quickly and dramatically. It seems to work on a "woosh" effect. I haven't been weighing myself, so I don't know if the fat is just burning off, or burning off and then being redeposited once I eat, just not in the same area. Either way, I don't really care. Losing fat is easy, losing that pouch has been a bitch. I guess that is what I get for being so damned fat at 275 before.

That sounds like a potent stack you used to use. I can't imagine being short on energy using that. What I am doing for a stack, is brewing one strong ass half gallon of iced green tea, and slamming 24oz of it with each dose of yohimbine. I have some green tea extract coming from trueprotein.com in a few days. After one of the doses, I go on a brisk walk. I'll tell you one thing, I throw off some heat on that walk!

Thanks for posting this. I've read many articles on yohimbine hcl and yohimbe (mainly in fitness magazines) and have always been a little leary. I was always worried about the jitters and side effects. Also I've seen yohimbe as a topical product in a lotion, but had my doubts. What dosage are you currently using if I may ask? Any less than desirable effects? Once again thanks for posting.....very interesting.

I had no issue with the jitters. Some people do, it is individual. I use 25mg, which I worked up to. I can't measure out 20mg easily due to my scoop, so I went with 25mg. Some guys over on intensemuscle.com go up to 50mg per day, some even higher. It is the (unscientific) semi-consensus over there, that for a man, 50mg is the max you should try. Some of the huge guys go higher, but they are huge. I think the recommended dose is around 1 mg per ten pounds of weight. So, I am going about seven mg over.

So, starting another supplement roundtable. I always learn a lot from these. After reading Martin Berkhan's post on supplements awhile ago, I've been rather interested. http://leangains.blogspot.com/2010/01/supplements-you-might-actually-find_09.html

To cite what he cites and anyone who supports yohimbine cites: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17214405

Res Sports Med. 2006 Oct-Dec;14(4):289-99.

Yohimbine: the effects on body composition and exercise performance in soccer players.

 

Ostojic SM.

 

Institute of Sports Medicine, Sports Academy, Belgrade, Serbia and Montenegro. [email protected]

 

The main aim of this study was to determine the effects of yohimbine supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in professional soccer players. The athletes (20 top-level male soccer players) were allocated to two randomly assigned trials. Subjects in the yohimbine group orally ingested tablets that contains yohimbine at a dose of 20 milligrams per day in two equal doses for 21 days. Subjects in the placebo group ingested an equal number of identical-looking pills that contained cellulose. There were no statistically significant changes in body mass and muscle mass within or between trials (p > 0.05) after the supplementation protocol. Percentage of body fat significantly decreased in the yohimbine group after the supplementation protocol (9.3 +/- 1.1 vs. 7.1 +/- 2.2%; p < 0.05). Furthermore, fat mass was significantly lower in the yohimbine versus placebo trial at postsupplementation assessment (7.1 +/- 2.2 vs. 9.2 +/- 1.9%; p < 0.05). There were no changes in exercise performance indicators (bench and leg press, vertical jump, dribble and power test results, shuttle run) within or between. trials (p > 0.05). No subject reported any side effects from yohimbine. The results of the current study indicate that supplementation with yohimbine combined with resistance training does not significantly alter the body mass, muscle mass, or performance indicators in professional soccer players. Nonetheless, yohimbine supplementation appears to be suitable as a fat loss strategy in elite athletes.

That said, yohimbine is supposed to block alpha-2 adrenoreceptors, which downregulate the release of epinephrine and norepinephrine, two primary lipolytic hormones. This also gives beta receptor stimulators, like caffeine and synephrine/ephedrine a more powerful effect. Also, alpha-2 receptors are supposed to be dense in the trouble areas in men and women, such as the stomach, hips and thighs. The blocking of these receptors apparently helps to mobilize fat in those areas, so it will be preferentially burned. The great think about yohimbine, unlike caffeine, synephrine and ephedrine, is that there is no negative feedback loop associated with the blocking of alpha-2 receptors, or so I am told. Basically, your body won't release less epi and such from yohimbine. I don't know how much truth there is to that, because the body sure loves homeostasis. Correct me if there is any misinformation there, I just want to get the basics on it down, so everyone can be on the same page. Like Martin says, though, all this does sound rather hokey.

I got some in powder form (yohimbine hcl) from trueprotein.com, which you must dose very carefully. I felt like a crack dealer, measuring out on a milligram sensitive scale. It has been about a week since I started, and I have this to say: it works. Maybe it is placebo effect, but I can definitely see it in the mirror, and I can only pinch half the fat I used to be able to. I am not going to say the pinch amount, because it is embarrassing. Intermittent fasting got me most of the way there, and yohimbine seems to work great for that last little push.

Also, yohimbine hcl, 11-hydroxy-yohimbine and alpha yohimbine are recommended over yohimbe extract. Yohimbe is supposed to contain alkaloids (same family as caffeine, theobromine, etc.) other than yohimbine. These can have certain negative effects that you aren't as likely to get from pure yohimbine. You want yohimbINE, not yohimbE.

Thoughts? I will get some pictures up in a week or two or three, and you guys can be the judge.

kitchen essentials

Stove, oven, microwave

groceries

Legumes, grains, tubers, fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds.

supplements

Protein powder and/or BCAA/EAA and creatine

training equipement

Gym

choice of fun exercices

Squat, bench, deadlift and military press

good habits to have

Eat train sleep repeat

how to motivate yourself

Mirror

stuff to read

The bible and the Koran

I would like to add "See Spot Run" to the book list. Greatest spiritual book I've ever read. You really have to read between the lines. Hint: Spot is God.

I would like to add chin-ups to the exercise list. And for serious reading, go to www.ironaddicts.com for training info. For vegan nutritional info, just read around here. Robert is writing a book that will be out on the 9th of April. That will be good, especially for motivation. Robert is an incredibly motivational speaker and writer.

Definitely a "grass is always greener" thing like pazios said. It is just something different. I am around girls all the time who have either a standard American (TV personality) dialect, or Spanish accent. So, those two aren't very sexy, especially the American dialect. "Exotic" is appealing.

I definitely have a bit of a Spanish accent and it IS sexy. Ask Zack.

Spanish accents can definitely be sexy. They are just a little less likely to be sexy to me than a lot of accents, because there are lots of Mexican immigrants in my area, so I hear them a lot. Though, Mexican accents sound a bit different than other Spanish accents, so other types of Spanish accents are more likely to sound sexy. That said, I have a thing for Mexican/Hispanic/whathaveyou women, just not necessarily their accents.

I am sure your accent is sexy, Lena. Zack?

I just read cubby's quote in johan's sig.

 

brilliant.

Thank you, sir.

They would be even more enamored of you than the Swedish girls, thanks to your accent. You would definitely slay them.

I still don't understand the whole accent deal. Guys here also say it's hot. And most foreigners work really hard to get rid of it... I doesn't make sense to me.

Definitely a "grass is always greener" thing like pazios said. It is just something different. I am around girls all the time who have either a standard American (TV personality) dialect, or Spanish accent. So, those two aren't very sexy, especially the American dialect. "Exotic" is appealing.

What I don't get is how someone like my roommate can live on beer, top ramen, and cigarettes, and feel healthy and fine all day, and never get sick. Yet he has a six pack and is muscular. Hahah.

Genetics uber alles.

I love it, some hate the how much it fluffs. Their rice protein is much thinner, if you like that in a protein.

Johan when are you gonna come over to this side of the atlantic and slay some american girls?

 

That is an excellent question sir. Unfortunately I have no answer but I don't know.

They would be even more enamored of you than the Swedish girls, thanks to your accent. You would definitely slay them.

I swear, I am the only person who likes maca. Straight, it is nasty, but in a smoothie, delicious.

So, where do folks buy this stuff? I'm quite unfond of ordering things online, but is that the best way to do it?

 

I'd like to give this stuff a shot, but really would like to hold onto the abs that I have...

 

bodybuilding.com? Which one for starters? (I know. No one can answer that question but me...)

Do you just mean creatine mono or CEE? You can grab some mono (or CEE I think) from GNC or something to try if you don't want to order it online. If you want the highest quality, I would recommend trueprotein.com. They also carry CEE

Geez, cubby, you're going to make me blush here.

 

To answer Jason X's question, I have my Hon.BSc. in Physiology and am currently in medical school.

Are you going into general medicine or a specialty?

Interesting bit about T. Colin Campbell is that when he did his first study in Indonesia (a much smaller version of the China Study) his hypothesis was the exact opposite, that it was eating too little meat that caused the diseases he was seeing. Hence why I laugh when people call him an undercover AR activist.

 

Or how he is on a first name basis with the top scientists in the food industry and government, even the ones he has harsh things to say about. He has been a nutrition researcher, literally, for 50 years. Longer than many of his critics have even been alive.

 

I think both he and Dr. Esselstyn have already lived Dr. Atkinson. My father is near their age range. The fact that these guys are touring around the country, writing, speaking etc amazes me.

That is why I always recommend The China Study to anyone interested in reading about veganism at all. I know there are a few small issues with his reasoning, but as a whole, the book is pretty much impenetrable. Usually when I see Dr. Campbell's name pop up on some regular bodybuilding board, people say the low cholesterol "conspiracy" is around to help drug companies. They say how people who believe that are unthinking automatons and don't know how to interpret research. Then they throw up a link to Dr. Mercola, who bases at least one of his views on his mother's intuition. Enough said.