belleadonna

Lean and Green, I have no problem with your thread and you were most polite in your discussion.

My problem was with the way I was rudely responded to.

I will re-think my stance on bee pollen ( I didn't use honey to begin with) because of the some of the polite arguements that I have read here and not because someone came down on me. I seriously did not think that using bee pollen was being anti-vegan. Not the way that I had it explained to me anyway and I am not so dogmatic as to tell others using it that they are not vegans.

I am a vegan despite what others may think and I love animals and would never mistreat one nor do I condone those that do. I am in animal rescue and have three dogs that I rescued from the dumpsters. We spent $500 of our retirement money to have one of them brought back to health because someone left her at the dumpster with a broken leg and a fractured pelvis.

I used to be dogmatic about my veganism too and I turned away alot more people then I converted because of my passion and often rude responses to their questions.

I am no longer a Nazi about my veganism but I do take it very seriously.

There are some people that think that it is wrong to eat plants because you are hurting them. I don't agree with them but I don't call them goofy and use profanity with them.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond in a reasoned, kind manner.

I don't see what the problem is with consuming bee products as long as the bee's are treated great. Bee Pollen is probably the most complete food on the planet. If i had to survive on one food for the rest of my life i'd pick bee pollen.

I don't see a problem with it either but if that is the policy on this site, I will abide by it. I assume that this discussion started because of my statement that I add bee pollen to my smoothies. Someone came back with a rude reply.

Good way to chase away aspiring vegans who prehaps don't know any differently or are just learning about veganism.

There are just as many vegans out there that believe that bee pollen is vegan as there are who believe that it is not, raw or otherwise. I am not here to argue the point. If it offends people, then I won't mention it again.

But I do think that the poster (not on this thread) could have been a little more civil.

Well pardon me! I thought that pollen came from flowers.

I know that the sugar content of bananas rises as it ripens but I am not sure about the calories.

I can't eat too many bananas at one sitting either so sometimes I just eat one and then get the rest in a smoothie. I like to make one of 2 frozen bananas, water and almond milk, and frozen blueberries. Delish. I like smoothies because you can add all kinds of stuff to it too. I often add greens to them and bee pollen. Easier than a salad but I also make lots of salads.

Yup, you're the only one.

I only kiss mine as it passes by my lips and down the hatch!!

Just remember JW that gorillas, horses, cows, etc... are big strong animals and they don't eat cooked food and they don't eat meat. They get all of the protein they need from plant sources. Granted, we are not horses and gorillas (thank God) but I believe that we were designed to eat plants (fruits and veggies) and God put everything that we need to live in them.

Check out Doug Graham's stuff. He works with alot of athletics.

How can you say the doctor's have nothing to offer??!! They can offer to cut you up and take parts of your body out, they can put you on drugs with horrid side effects, and they can even suggest that you should eat more meat and dairy.

If all of these super juices and superfoods have been heated, processed, or altered in any way, it ceases to be a superfood!!

Hey, congrats!! You are doing great.

Ditto on the protein thing. It is way over hyped. Remember, protein doesn't build muscle, exercise does. Protein feeds the muscle but you don't need to overfeed it like we overfeed ourselves!!

There are lots of raw vegans out there that get all the protein they need from what they eat, fruits and veggies!!

Some raw is better than no raw.

I find that when I eat cooked food now I get headaches. I guess that's a good thing. That will keep me raw!!

Cooked food produces mucus and my nose lets me know it when I stray.

Juicing and blending all have their place. No need to chose one over another.

Juicing- saves the body having to digest hard to digest high starch veggies like carrots and beets

Blending- saves time and breaks down cell walls

Chewing- use your mouth as a blender!!

I do all three!!

I have not been raw too long compared to some others. I have been raw for 12 days straight. I went back to about 75% raw for 6 days and now have been back to 95% raw for 6 days again. I am just a fledgling but it is getting easier every time and I find that I really like being raw and how it makes me feel.

I think that thing with the fruit and candida, as I had it explained to me, is that the fat intake is more of the problem than the fructose intake. Fruit gets blamed for a lot of woes from candida to teeth falling apart.

Grapefruit is a real good antifungal too.

I am doing Doug Graham's 80/10/10. I don't worry about the protein intake. I get all that I need from fruits and veggies and the occasional handful of nuts.

I had it until I went raw. I have had trouble with candida since I was a child. I eat tons of fruit, veggies, and very little fat now. My problems have disappeared. Fruit sugar does not affect it at all for me. I even drink carrot juice which is full of sugar but is also an natural anti-fungal.

The only thing that I would take for candida is acidophilus. Get a good one like Enzymatic Therapy Pearls or Dr. Ohira's.

I have been 95% raw for the last three days. I feel much better.

The first time I ever went raw, I made it for 10 days. Then I went off raw and stayed off for almost a year. I mean I really went off. I won't even tell you what I was eating and drinking!!

This last time I went raw, I made it for 12 days straight. I went off again but only for 6 days. And I didn't go crazy this time. I stayed mostly raw.

It feels different this time. It feels right to be raw. I started to get sick again when I ate cooked and I just didn't feel right.

So, I am starting Day 4 and looking forward to the day.

Hope you all are doing well and learning more about your body, like I am. We all need to find what works best for ourselves in terms of food.

Off to the gym!! Have a great raw day.

Well, I made it 12 days and this weekend I fell off of the wagon (confession time).

But I am going to keep trying. I will see if I can make it 100% again today. I didn't feel well going back to cooked. I need my fruit!!

Day 12

Still perking along. Can't believe I made it for 12 days so far. I will probably not list all of my foods anymore because it is predominately the same things; green smoothies, green lemonade, salads, tons of fruit, juices especially carrot combinations, and occasionally small handfuls of nuts. I eat dried fruits too.

It try to get an hour in at the gym every other day. I mostly lift weights. Some days I work doing cleaning so I consider that my aerobics.

Weight- 142.8

Much fluid retention because it is that TOM. Bleck.

Off to work this morning. Have a great raw day folks.

Day 11

Ok, Day 11 under my belt. Last night was the first night that I really had any cravings. I wanted a package of melba toast so bad. Yup, that's right, melba toast of all things. I guess that I just wanted something crunchy that was made of wheat. My nemesis.

Anyway, I held out. I try and keep my fats low so I just had a very small handful of raw pumpkin seeds and that seemed to satisfy me.

When I was eating a SAD diet, I was eating ALOT of fat. Then when I tried my first raw experience I was eating ALOT of fat. I didn't realize how much until I started to keep account on Fitday. Wow, I was eating approx. 50 to 60% of my diet as fat. Granted it was "good" fat but fat is fat. And if I was eating that much fat, it meant that I was only getting about 30% of my diet as carbs! Not much fuel for my body to burn and I lift weights.

Now while that may work for some folks, it doesn't work for me!! I am not criticizing anyone who chooses to eat high fat raw (or low carb raw) because each one has a different body and each one has to find his/her own way.

So anyway, I am trying to keep at about 10% to 14% fat a day. I find that I have much more energy this time around and I don't crave as much as I used to. I am stronger in the gym than I have been in a long time. So, I will stick with this way.

My energy has really kicked in. My sinuses have not been acting up since I started back raw. No more migraines. Hallelujah!! My clogged tear duct has healed. I used to have terrible ridges in my fingernails. They are not gone but I notice that they have smoothed out alot. Not sure what ridges in the nails mean but I have heard that it means low thyroid production.

2 grapefruit

4 clementines

raw apricot/coconut bar

3 plums

3 nectarines

1 banana

dried apricots

green lemonade

3 medjool dates

small handful of raw pumpkin seeds

plateful of radishes, cukes, grape tomatoes, and cabbage-no dressing

Weight- 142.2

Listen to your body!! Who knows your body better that you. There is alot of conflicting info out there. For every 5 people that I can find for something, I can find 5 people who are against it. So use your own brain and listen to your own body. Don't overthink this. It's not that hard. Stop running from one thing to another. Pick a way to eat and stick with it and maybe just refine and fine tune your diet as you go along.

Well, at any rate, I hope that you get better soon!!

Yes, I do lift weights. I disagree with your premises but you are surely entitled to them. Good luck.

Your flu may be detox symptoms if you are only 2 weeks vegan.

Another evidence is that you'll never see a raw foodist with big muscles. Rarely some of them succeded to get ripped (Richard blackman) with fruitarian diet, with a lot of extreme training...but most of them look extremely skinny (that's my opinion).

Then again maybe most of the fruitarian or raw folks you meet are not bodybuilders. If you haven't been a fruitarian or followed the 811 diet for long, how would you know that you can't build muscle? It takes alot longer than a few months to build muscle. I see just as many skinny people eating a SAD diet that don't build muscle either but maybe that's because they are not bodybuilders.

Anyways, we can't generalize and I think that most of the people that eat raw are not doing it to build muscle but to achieve optimum health.

Day 10

Had another good nights rest, again only waking up once and I went right back to sleep.

Tons of energy this morning. Went to the gym and worked with free weights for an hour. Felt really strong and I didn't bonk like I usually do. Then I came home and did housework. My house is going to be so clean!!

My gums are getting better. They used to bleed and they have been receeding. That seems to have stopped.

2 bananas

1/2 raw food bar

lots of grapes

2 juicy mangos

Green smoothie with romaine, kale, strawberries and 2 bananas, water

Carrot/turnip greens juice (turnip greens are a great source of calcium and helps to rebuild teeth)

3 dates

Huge salad- 1/2 tbsp olive oil/raw vinegar

2 oranges

very small handful of grapes

Weight 142.2

I keep my weight every day(which I don't normally do) to show others that the scale can fluctuate as you lose or retain fluid day by day. A better reflection of weight loss is the tape measure.

I took my measurements at the beginning of this journey and I will re-take them at the end of the month and record them here.

Also, I am not doing this raw journey to lose weight. I believe that that is the wrong motive. If we are eating raw JUST to lose weight, we will most likely fail.

This is not a weight loss diet, it is a lifestyle. We will most likely lose unwanted, unneeded fat but our goal should be optimal health and a sharpening of our spiritual life. I first tried to eat raw just to lose weight and I didn't stick with it. This time is different.

Yup, that's the problem with high fat raw diets. If you are consuming 50% fat let's say, that means that you are probably only getting 30% carbs which is not enough for your energy needs. Lower the fat and increase the fresh fruits!!