The Future of Veganism

[sydneyvegan]

In my current position I am working within a government planning organisation. A lot of the work I have been doing is in relation to preserving intensive agricultural lands within the Sydney area. Increased development and the demand for affordable housing is destroying prime food growing areas. More and more food is trucked in from heavily irrigated areas in remote areas of the state or from other states and with Long Distance food Chains becoming increasingly unstainable. It has got me wondering about the future of Vegans.

Vegans as a section of the population consume a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables, and although most of us dream of growing it outselves, we don’t. We rely on food that is grown by other people that appears at the local farmers market or supermarket etc.

Lets face it Transport cost are steadily increasing due to increases in world oil prices and this is not something that is going to get better.

I have noticed a big difference in my weekly food bill already, even when I buy in season and from local growers. Lets face it, being a vegan is becoming more and more expensive.

Will there be different classes of vegans? Professional vegans who live in cities with high paying jobs, that can afford to eat a complete, healthy diet vs Vegans that grow their own food and live in towns etc.

Anyway I’m interested in other peoples thoughts, if anyone has given this much thought etc. .

[Im Your Man]

I'm not more worried about the cost of vegan foods than by non-vegan foods, or by war, pollution, etc... it's all part of the dark age we live in, and it's part of the future we'll be living in. But we must already deal with our future and people like you who get involved in ways to make things change are important.

The rise of costs for foods is more complex than just the rise of prices for oil, there's also the bio-diesel thing, which especially Europe is responsible (77% of production of all bio-diesel worldwide) to contribute of higher prices for vegetables used to make veg. oils. So yes we can make a direct link between transport and food, but there's more: all global economy is governed by Wall Street and speculations. The crazy maniacs at the Exchange are responsible for variations of prices for cereals especially:

 

-The price of rice jumped +31% on 27th of March 2008.

-price of wheat went 29% higher feb. 25th 2008.

[medman]

The cost of meat will be rising a lot more. There's a LOT more fossil fuel that goes into all the transport/agriculture involved in growing all that grain to feed the cattle, and the transportation of the cattle and (refrigerated) meat as well. The cost of meat hasn't skyrocketed yet because the beef farmers are still selling cows raised a couple of years ago. With the rising cost of fuel and grain, the meat industry will be hit hard. Many times the amount of fuel and grain go into producing meat compared to vegan food. They will feel the crunch soon, the 'current stock' was just a bit of a price buffer for the short-term.

 

On a related note, my uncle is a beef farmer. My whole immediate family is veg*n. Makes for some interesting holiday get-togethers.

[loveliberate]

Heya Chris!

 

Very good stuff to consider amigo.

 

My take on this is that there are already "different classes of vegans" just as there are different classes of people in general. Class is a lot bigger issue than many folks care to admit or think about. The costs of all kinds of food & just about everything else are rising worldwide. As the number of people & perhaps more importantly, the number of people living a "Western/Modern/Urban/whatever" lifestyle continues to grow, things are likely to get a LOT harsher before they improve.

 

This "way of life" is overindulgent at virtually any level & as things stand it is not only not sustainable, it is a direct assault against the planet!

 

Being vegan can be a positive step towards making things better - but at best, it's just one step that we can & should take.

[Dr. Pink]

I've thought about this problem before. Not only the price of food but I think the quality may be affected too. With more and more people being born there will eventually be less room to grow food( Which would mean that we would be in a similar situation foreseen by soylent green.

 

I do have one idea. It would take time( Probably 10-20 years ) but I think it would/could have the potential to help.

 

I want to start my own company. One that focused on growing the highest quality vegan food around. It would be similar to Veganic farming only the major difference would be that everything would be grown within a building complex( With me as the company owner I would make sure that each building is up to cove to growing standards.

 

So basically it would be a building relatively big in width and length terms( Not sure if I want to say 40 acres because that does seem like too much ) And it would be about 50-100 floors( More if possible ) . The whole building would pretty much be one giant green house( Well the main inner section at least, And say the building is roughly 30 acres 35 of those acres would be used for growing ) With the main greenhouse section in the middle just on the outside would be the entrance from each floor to that floors greenhouse( Because let's face it it would be extremely uncomfortable to work entirely in a greenhouse )

 

As for the rest of the facility. It would be used to create products such as Tofu, Salsa, Chips, Pasta, Frozen Treats, Beauty Products, Flour, Bread, Clothing, Condiments, Soda, Juice drinks, Kids lunchable-like-foods...Pretty much everything. And everything used for those products would be grown somewhere in the facility.

 

I would start with one of these super vegan buildings. And eventually it would take off and I would attempt to make more and more. My dream plan would be to have one of these Super Vegan Buildings in every city in the world.

 

We'd actually sell the products in a grocery store just for products grown/made in the Super Vegan Building.

 

I think that would make being Vegan a whole lot easier. I'd also try and make it super affordable too. Like maybe 1 dollar per pound of Tofuy and 1 dollar per pound of Pasta. If it's grown by us I don't see why we should charge a whole lot since we don't have to pay growers and stuff.

 

Each Super Vegan Building would be located at least one to two blocks away from the actual store the products would be sold. Connected by a private walk-way so all the food grown in the Super Vegan building would be easy to get to the store. Hence not needing to be expensive due to high gas prices.

 

 

It sounds far fetched. It sounds crazy. But By George I'm going to try.

[offense74]

I also try to buy sustainably (mostly regional and organic) and it is double to 5x the price of food in for example McDonalds. However, as I tell people, the price I'm paying is the real price of food. The price they pay is for food that is nutritionally bankrupt and unsustainable.

Since I pay more money for food I also pay more VAT so that I, in the end, pay more for "health" care, subsidies, medical research and I will keep paying for solutions that will keep our unsustainable lifestyle ticking. I think the next thing will be "clean" or unclean coal. As long as it comes down to us keeping up what we're doing we will cut down the last tree and we will find a rational argument to do so. And I will pay more for it because of the way I live than others.

 

It feels frustrating.

[medman]

I also try to buy sustainably (mostly regional and organic) and it is double to 5x the price of food in for example McDonalds. However, as I tell people, the price I'm paying is the real price of food. The price they pay is for food that is nutritionally bankrupt and unsustainable...

 

I know exactly what you mean. I consider it an investment in health - both my health, and the planet's health, plus an investment in the good farmers out there (the farmers are often taking an economic risk by growing organic). Some people invest in pharmaceutical companies or oil companies, etc, etc in the stock market...while my investment might not be giving a financial return, the 'returns' are in my health and in supporting the farmers out there who are "doing things right."

 

I could save a lot of money by eating McDonald's and Wonderbread sandwiches, but I'd just have to spend it again on all that pesky insulin and lipitor. And then think of how much money I'd be losing when I retire and/or die years earlier because of it.

[sydneyvegan]

I'm not more worried about the cost of vegan foods than by non-vegan foods, or by war, pollution, etc... it's all part of the dark age we live in, and it's part of the future we'll be living in. But we must already deal with our future and people like you who get involved in ways to make things change are important.

The rise of costs for foods is more complex than just the rise of prices for oil, there's also the bio-diesel thing, which especially Europe is responsible (77% of production of all bio-diesel worldwide) to contribute of higher prices for vegetables used to make veg. oils. So yes we can make a direct link between transport and food, but there's more: all global economy is governed by Wall Street and speculations. The crazy maniacs at the Exchange are responsible for variations of prices for cereals especially:

 

-The price of rice jumped +31% on 27th of March 2008.

-price of wheat went 29% higher feb. 25th 2008.

 

Yes I definitely agree, that the issues are more complex than just the rise in the price of oil, particularly on a global scale. In Australia however, there is very little bio-diesel production, the majority of vegetables and other crops are produced for domestic consumption or export. So here the major factors that have forced prices to increase are;

1. Drought

2. Increased Transport costs.

[sydneyvegan]

Heya Chris!

 

Very good stuff to consider amigo.

 

My take on this is that there are already "different classes of vegans" just as there are different classes of people in general. Class is a lot bigger issue than many folks care to admit or think about. The costs of all kinds of food & just about everything else are rising worldwide. As the number of people & perhaps more importantly, the number of people living a "Western/Modern/Urban/whatever" lifestyle continues to grow, things are likely to get a LOT harsher before they improve.

 

This "way of life" is overindulgent at virtually any level & as things stand it is not only not sustainable, it is a direct assault against the planet!

 

Being vegan can be a positive step towards making things better - but at best, it's just one step that we can & should take.

 

I think you are absolutely right Loveliberate.

I'm hoping that people of have taken the first step, by becoming vegan, are the people who they take more and more steps, in terms of modifying their lifestyles and how they impact the planet.

[sydneyvegan]

I've thought about this problem before. Not only the price of food but I think the quality may be affected too. With more and more people being born there will eventually be less room to grow food( Which would mean that we would be in a similar situation foreseen by soylent green.

 

I do have one idea. It would take time( Probably 10-20 years ) but I think it would/could have the potential to help.

 

I want to start my own company. One that focused on growing the highest quality vegan food around. It would be similar to Veganic farming only the major difference would be that everything would be grown within a building complex( With me as the company owner I would make sure that each building is up to cove to growing standards.

 

So basically it would be a building relatively big in width and length terms( Not sure if I want to say 40 acres because that does seem like too much ) And it would be about 50-100 floors( More if possible ) . The whole building would pretty much be one giant green house( Well the main inner section at least, And say the building is roughly 30 acres 35 of those acres would be used for growing ) With the main greenhouse section in the middle just on the outside would be the entrance from each floor to that floors greenhouse( Because let's face it it would be extremely uncomfortable to work entirely in a greenhouse )

 

As for the rest of the facility. It would be used to create products such as Tofu, Salsa, Chips, Pasta, Frozen Treats, Beauty Products, Flour, Bread, Clothing, Condiments, Soda, Juice drinks, Kids lunchable-like-foods...Pretty much everything. And everything used for those products would be grown somewhere in the facility.

 

I would start with one of these super vegan buildings. And eventually it would take off and I would attempt to make more and more. My dream plan would be to have one of these Super Vegan Buildings in every city in the world.

 

We'd actually sell the products in a grocery store just for products grown/made in the Super Vegan Building.

 

I think that would make being Vegan a whole lot easier. I'd also try and make it super affordable too. Like maybe 1 dollar per pound of Tofuy and 1 dollar per pound of Pasta. If it's grown by us I don't see why we should charge a whole lot since we don't have to pay growers and stuff.

 

Each Super Vegan Building would be located at least one to two blocks away from the actual store the products would be sold. Connected by a private walk-way so all the food grown in the Super Vegan building would be easy to get to the store. Hence not needing to be expensive due to high gas prices.

 

 

It sounds far fetched. It sounds crazy. But By George I'm going to try.

 

Hey Dr Pink, sometimes it takes someone who thinks a little left of centre to make truely great things happen.

Here are a couple of links that might interest you - The first is for skyscraper Glasshouses

http://www.verticalfarm.com/

 

The second is a slightly different approach. It is a project here in Sydney to take abandoned land and use it to grow food using permaculture.

http://www.sydneycityfarm.org/

[Dr. Pink]

Ah pickle sticks I though I had come up with an idea no one else had

 

Well I can still make mine Veganic so there won't be any animal crap used to grow the stuff.

[veginator]

...

The rise of costs for foods is more complex than just the rise of prices for oil, there's also the bio-diesel thing, which especially Europe is responsible (77% of production of all bio-diesel worldwide) to contribute of higher prices for vegetables used to make veg. oils. So yes we can make a direct link between transport and food, but there's more: all global economy is governed by Wall Street and speculations. The crazy maniacs at the Exchange are responsible for variations of prices for cereals especially:

 

-The price of rice jumped +31% on 27th of March 2008.

-price of wheat went 29% higher feb. 25th 2008.

 

But it's the crazy maniacs (or just bought-off maniacs) in the government that allow unfettered speculation, and also heavily subsidize the meat industry and pretty much every other heavily polluting industry. And in the US, they provide virtually no funding for rail or other public transportation, or to renewable energy sources. Our rail lines (both passenger and freight) suck!

[Im Your Man]

Indeed, because the governements and big companies of oil, agrobusiness and pharma are all obsessed by profits, but not any profits, the real-short-term profits, making money NOW, they don't want to wait 20 years, even if it would mean making more money that way. And thinking only short-term is self-destructive, for everybody and the planet. It's "live fast, die young", or like using drugs, or selfishness. W. Bush, Bill Gates, presidents of Monsanto and others are actually psychopaths, if they wouldn't make money they would be serial killers.

[veginator]

Indeed, because the governements and big companies of oil, agrobusiness and pharma are all obsessed by profits, but not any profits, the real-short-term profits, making money NOW, they don't want to wait 20 years, even if it would mean making more money that way. And thinking only short-term is self-destructive, for everybody and the planet. It's "live fast, die young", or like using drugs, or selfishness. W. Bush, Bill Gates, presidents of Monsanto and others are actually psychopaths, if they wouldn't make money they would be serial killers.

 

Bush isn't a serial killer?