lean body but faty tissue on the chest

[Mikee]

Hi there

 

 

 

I have just began a raw vegan diet (4 months) and began to work out with free weights and lots of pushups and tons of cardio (cycling, walking)

 

 

 

I noticed in those 4 months that my arms (biceps, triceps) are getting really big and I see huge results

 

 

 

However my lower chest is really not showing any improvements. The upper part of my chest is rock solid but the lower part has a lot of faty tissue and seems to be hanging there ;(

 

 

Any advice?

 

i do very deep pushups almost touching the ground and nothing seems to help. should i incorporate bench pressess?

 

my diet consists of lots of fruits and vegies.

 

Cheers

M

[Gaia]

Decline chest presses, flat bench chest flyes, and barbell pullovers might be incorporated into your weight lifting routine to hit the lower pecs.

[tumbleweed]

It might not be a problem with lack of muscle mass, but rather a problem with just too much subcutaneous fat (fat beneath the skin). I don't know how old you are, but I can tell you from experience that reducing this type of fat is the toughest. The older you get, the more stubborn it is.

 

In my opinion, no amount of lifting is going to get rid of this. It all comes down to burning it off with cardio training and diet. Eating vegan is great; however, you still need to watch your calorie load. My advice is to drop your calorie load a bit. From your post, you are doing lots of cardio already. So maybe trimming that extra body fat just comes down to how much food you're eating.

 

I was reading an article one time by a guy who is an underwear model, of all things. Needless to say, this guy has an awesome physique. He made a statement that "Six pack abs start in the kitchen". I agree.

 

Thoughts?

 

Tumbleweed

[Mikee]

Im 30 years old and I have only now realized the beauty and health benefits of a healthy body

 

I use to be extremely thin -65kg Im 6.1f --now Im around 75kg

 

I have read that it is a tough process to get rid of that fatty tissue

 

I m going to cut my calorie intake and do more cardio

 

The thing that is interesting is that my arms are showing huge improvements and my upper chest as well --but the lower part keeps hanging and doesnt look too apealing

[bwi]

try doing push up with you hands close together and do more decline or dipps.

[VeganEssentials]

Much agreed with Tumbleweed.

 

No amount of training a specific area will magically remove fat and replace it with muscle, and no specific single exercise will spot-reduce fat on your body. Removing the fat will come from dieting for fat loss, though even just adding more mass while keeping fat levels in that area stable and free from increasing will at the least make it look like there is less fat overall. Just about everyone tends to have their own stubborn area where fat loss seems to come the slowest, so getting rid of fat that remains on the chest will have to be attacked as a general fat loss tactic since you can't spot-reduce a specific area. Sounds a lot like me, when I went from 230ish down to 192 lbs. many years ago, and while I looked like a skeleton at that weight (I'm far too largely framed to be under 225 at a ripped lean weight), I still had a bit of a tiny gut that didn't seem to want to go away. Sometimes that last area just doesn't want to budge, so a combination of working to lose fat alternating with a sensible plan to gain lean mass will hopefully help change the appearance in time.

[Mikee]

right

 

vm--by adding more mass what exactly do you mean?

 

thanks

[VeganEssentials]

Mikee,

 

By adding more mass, I'm just referring to putting more muscle on your chest since that's the target area you're referring to. If you increase the mass of a specific muscle group and the fat content in that area stays the same, it will appear to be a lot less fat even if there's still the same amount there simply due to the increase in muscle size in that area. If you have the same bodyfat percentage and distribution on a person of the same size/frame where one has a 13" arm and the other a 19" arm, whose arm will look leaner? Obviously, the larger the muscle size and development, the same amount of fat on that area will appear to be less simply because it gets overshadowed by the muscle itself, even if the fat level stays consistent. Of course, it's pretty rare that someone could develop an average muscle size into one that's considerably larger without adding ANY additional fat, but I'm just giving examples of how fat distribution and appearance can be altered with a change in muslce size. So, if you were able to get your diet to where you could gain some additional lean mass on your chest without adding fat at the rate to keep it looking consistently the same, if you developed your pectorals more it would appear to be getting leaner as the development of the muscle group improves. So, in that regard, the advice to work your chest more/differently CAN have an impact on the appearance of fat on that area if it impacts your development of the muscle in a positive way, but as I mentioned, no matter how much/how hard you work your chest, you can't specifically work fat off a "problem area" because it just isn't something that can be done.

 

Hope that helps clarify!

[Mikee]

VeganE Yes that helps, thank you!!

 

I have decreased my calorie intake by around 500 and incorporated extra 1h of hard impact cycling-all together 3 hours

 

changed up my push up routine--palms together, feet elevated

 

since i dont have acess to a bench or a gym any other good exercises for the pecs?

 

i have free weights which i work with all the time

 

i will give you an update in a while

[tumbleweed]

I agree with everything VeganEssentials said.

 

You're on the right track, Mikee. One other suggestion I have is to make sure you keep a training log book. Writing down your food, your exercise, and your daily weight is important. This will keep you from guessing whether a specific diet/exercise combination is working. You'll know just by reviewing your own data and adjusting where necessary.

 

You don't really need a big gym setup to do some really good work outs. Years ago I bought an exercise ball and some used dumbbells at a "Play It Again Sports" place. Used sporting goods places are great for finding weight equipment on the cheap. You can use the exercise ball as a bench.

 

Have fun.

[Mikee]

That is a good sugestion!

 

I heard about it so many times but never paid much attention to it.

 

I began to write everything down including the number of push up etc etc

 

Great info thanks guys

[VeganEssentials]

VeganE Yes that helps, thank you!!

 

I have decreased my calorie intake by around 500 and incorporated extra 1h of hard impact cycling-all together 3 hours

 

Beware cutting calories too much and adding too much cardio - if you put your body into too much of a defeceit, you'll increase the odds of going into "starvation mode" where your body will want to hold on to fat and use up precious muscle instead, thereby defeating the whole effort. When I crash dieted, I lost at least 50% of my weight in muscle, and when that happens, you may lose overall weight but maintain the same levels of bodyfat. Cut calories slowly and within reason - if you're eating around 4000 cal./day or more than cutting 500 cal/day isn't a huge thing (adding in an extra hour of cycling will definitely make the defeceit much larger, though, possibly making it much more than you need to cut), but if you're eating a lower amount of calories such as under 2700, taking 500 cal/day off your amount plus an hour of extra cardio is probably way too taxing and will get you as much or more muscle loss as fat loss. Always take increases and decreases slowly at first for either adding or losing weight, since a drastic change can easily sway you into the wrong direction when it comes to halting progress. As I used in the comparsion of the distribution of the same level of fat over 2 different sized arms, it also goes that if you lose, say, 20 lbs. of weight but your bodyfat percentage stays level, then you're not going to see any more results in the chest area and might end up looking fatter if you eat up too much muscle. Muscle can only be built by taking in an excess of calories beyond what your body needs, so it's not conducive to building a bigger chest while doing extreme dieting and cardio work. Most people who look like they've gotten bigger after dieting is due to their work to retain as much lean mass as possible while losing fat, and just as well, I've seen plenty of people who became "skinny-fat" by simply considering any weight loss to be good weight loss, even when they ended up sacrificing pounds of muscle in the process.

 

So, just take it slowly, don't overdo it, and keep a visual record of your progress by checking yourself weekly/bi-weekly to monitor how things are coming along. Nothing keeps tabs on progress as well as visually noting your improvements, and if you can take pictures of yourself periodically you can use that to also make your comparisons as well and document the change along with any records of your training and diet you keep. That way, you can see what works and what doesn't to the greatest degree.

 

Hope this helps a bit!

[Mikee]

I thought that for the muscle to start detoriating all the fat has to burned off. Doesnt the body take the fuel from the fat storage then moves to the muscles?

 

Also wouldnt it help to cut calorie intake as much as is reasonable and not only increasing cardio but also the intensity of weight lifting?

 

 

I m keeping a log of everything!

[VeganEssentials]

I thought that for the muscle to start detoriating all the fat has to burned off. Doesnt the body take the fuel from the fat storage then moves to the muscles?

 

Also wouldnt it help to cut calorie intake as much as is reasonable and not only increasing cardio but also the intensity of weight lifting?

 

If only fat came off first, nobody would ever have difficulty obtaining a ripped physique while maintaining all of their muscle gains, and the world of bodybuilding would be a changed forever

 

Not the case, though - muscle can come off as easy or easier than fat depending on how much you cut calories and increase cardio work, so it's something to beware of. If only fat came off first, I'd just cut my calories by 30-40% for a month or two and I'd get the results that I want, but unfortunately, I'd end up losing about a year or two's worth of muscle that was added, so that's why I say beware of cutting too rapidly.

 

The goal that everyone seeks is to find the two trickiest points for caloric intake - first, where you can take off the most fat without sacrificing muscle (or, by sacrificing as little as possible), and second, where you can add the best percentage of muscle without adding too much fat along with it. It's taken me over a decade to find those marks - some people can get to it more easily (particularly if you're younger and have a great metabolism - in your mid 30s it definitely gets trickier), but others can spend years playing around with the numbers and always be a bit confused, particularly since they will change in time based on your level of lean mass. Nobody said it'd be easy, but like I said, take your time, don't go all-out with overdoing the calorie cutting and excessive cardio work, and monitor your progress to ensure that things are going the way you'd like them to.

[Mikee]

Yah I m taking it slow. I will see what happens by the end of a 2 week period.

 

I have a friend who has been into body building for a decade now and can eat whatever he wants in unlimited quantity and very little lifting (mostly pushups) and keeps very fit with a very firm chest

 

buy yah metabolism is a key factor for sure.

 

thanks for taking the time to provide the info. I really appreciate it!!

[VeganEssentials]

Yah I m taking it slow. I will see what happens by the end of a 2 week period.

 

I have a friend who has been into body building for a decade now and can eat whatever he wants in unlimited quantity and very little lifting (mostly pushups) and keeps very fit with a very firm chest

 

buy yah metabolism is a key factor for sure.

 

thanks for taking the time to provide the info. I really appreciate it!!

 

No problem at all - just wanted to help a bit.

 

Some people are simply freakish in how they can lose fat - a good friend of mine can lose about 20 lbs. of fat in just 2-3 months by stopping drinking beer, and before long, he's got a 6-pack set of abs showing. If only it were that easy for everyone...

 

Best of luck in your training!

[DaN]

On the subject of arms growing but not chest, I think it can also be body effected.What I mean is some peoples bodies react to upperbody workouts by growing muscles on the chest, other on the arms.

 

Example: Me & my girlfriends brother used to work out together.We did basically the same workouts & the same diet for around 4 months.My chest always bulks up, as does my back, but my arms prefer not too.On the other hand his arms grew really big but his chest refused to grow very much.I look at alot of guys & see a similar pattern.I always presumed it was the way our bodies like to deal with hard work..

 

I might be talking complete rubbish as I am basing this on nothing more than a hunch, & a case study of 2 people.

[Mikee]

yah i know what you mean

 

i calculated my daily fat intake...its around 40g consisting mostly of yougurt,kefir,avacado, and handful of soaked nuts. It used to be around 80g or soomewhere around there. I think this should help greatly.

 

The calorie intake I have decreased as well but I am doing it at a slower pace as to your sugestion

 

my daily calorie intake is around 2000 consisting mainly of raw vegan foods

 

take care

[tumbleweed]

muscle can come off as easy or easier than fat depending on how much you cut calories and increase cardio work, so it's something to beware of.

 

This is so true. I know this guy who is a marathon runner. He runs so much he even runs to and from work: 9 miles each way. We'd always chat it up in the gym on days he was working with weights. He did lots of chest work with weights, but his chest and arms remained really skinny and bony looking. He told me this was a problem with guys who really run a lot.

 

Later, I read an article which talked about this situation. Guys who do an extreme amount of cardio lose muscle mass in their upper body because their body use it for fuel. These guys don't have much excess body fat to draw energy from for long runs, so their bodies get it from muscles that aren't being used; their chest and arms. So I started noticing distance runners more; almost none of these guys have big upper bodies.

 

That being said, the guy I knew was most definitely ripped looking because he didn't have a shred of body fat. And he told me his resting heart rate was 38. Amazing fit, for sure. But a different kind of fitness than body building, for sure.

[DaN]

Yeah what you say about runners sounds spot on

[Mikee]

Im aiming for something in between a body builder and a marathon runner

 

But I m doing more research on loss of muscle vs fat because I never knew this before

[DaN]

I would suggest maybe doing the body building first to a size a bit over what you are aiming for, & then doing alot of running to tone up your size & get a little more lean.

 

But I really dont have any experience with this, so others on here, especially those who run alot, would know more about this, so take their advice over mine.

 

[Gaia]

What DaN has said is what a competitive bodybuilder does. Off season is for focusing on eating more than usual and lifting heavy weights. Seeing the weights increase every month, and your weight goes up too. Then when it is 3 to 4 months before the date you want to look good/peaking, then you taper off the calories, increase (or even for some of us start) cardio. You then focus on losing the weight and maintaining your muscle mass. You will lose some muscle mass, but you give it away to get your bodyfat down there.

 

Now, this may take some time. I remember when I first started out dieting for a show, I got down to 112 for the show (from a starting of 138!). I looked like skin and bones, but I still had a buthigh (the place between the thigh and the butt) bulge! I couldn't believe it. The next year I started out at 160 (nice off season bulking that year ) and got on stage at 133 with no bulge! I did extra on the stepmill! and that got rid of the buthigh! Using just the muscle over and over in a bodyweight situation will burn the fat out/and off the muscle. (Try just doing push ups for 10 minutes or so. Do it aerobically. Maybe that could help you).

 

I know that it is possible in theory to get rid of fat and build muscle at the same time, but I haven't found it yet after doing this since I was 16. Maybe cause I can only focus on one thing at a time, and I put 100% effort into that one thing.

[Mikee]

I was thinking some more about this

 

since i do so much cardio wouldnt it be just wise to cut the fat and keep the calorie the same?

[VeganEssentials]

Cutting fat doesn't necessarily reduce bodyfat by itself (hence the reason that lower carb / higher fat diets work for many people) so just reducing fat in your diet may not have a noticeable impact on your bodyfat loss. Fat in food does not equal fat that goes on to the body, so please keep that in mind. Different people seem to have different responses to changing nutrient ratios - some people swear by lower fat diets, but others like myself do not find that reducing fat makes any real difference in my own fat loss. If you want to experiment with reducing fat by a reasonable amount it won't necessarily be bad for you, but I wouldn't expect it to work miracles. If you do try it and it doesn't seem to do much for you, then I'd recommend the converse and upping your intake of good healthy fats and proteins and reducing your carbohydrate intake by perhaps 25-40% for a few weeks to see how that works for you. It's done me the most good to eat this way and reduce my carbohydrate intake, so if the lower fat approach doesn't work, change things up and see what happens.