Avoiding soreness

[hilary wright]

Just for your information, both dancing and martial arts workouts do break down muscle fiber and need to be rebuilt. No, it is not identical to weights, but try 10 rounds on the heavy bag or a 3 hour pas de deux rehearsal lifting your 110 lb partner overhead 40 times. (that's 50 kgs times 40, or 2000 kgs total, hmmm) Stretching realigns and relaxes the body/muscles, allows better circulation, and the relaxation allows for better rest and repair. This is not at all like pulling apart cut skin. If you are tearing your muscle fibers further, then you are forcing or not aligning yourself correctly. I see many people hurt themselves by both lifting and stretching incorrectly. Don't blame the process if the participent is clueless. You may wish to limit yourself to not stretching after workouts, but stating that it is damaging makes as much sense as saying "don't lift weights because it damages the muscles by forming micro abrasions in them". Oh no, don't want to risk that!

[xphilx]

You can do other things to " relaxes and elongates the muscles, and promotes circulation". Like massaging the muscles. Not stretch them ! They've already been stretched and torn and teared ! Like Gaïa said, lifting heavy loads creates microtears. By stretching the muscles before those microtears healed, you're tearing them even more, and it slows down recovery and grownt.

 

There's no benefits in stretching the muscles before the work out neither. Like Hilary said, it relaxes the muscles. Do you want to do meditation or an intense workout ? You need to warm up your muscles, with fast and repetivive movements like DaN said.

 

that's exactly my point and the reason why i said that you shouldn't stretch after your work out. thanks!

 

a light stretching sessions after weight lifting could be okay i think (although it would be still kinda useless). and i have to add that a massage can slow down the recovery progress, too in the same way (hard) stretching does. but a light and slow massage can be helpful.

 

Total nonsense. . . you obviously have no idea how to stretch or the proper dynamics of stretching. But we did get a good laugh out of your theories while talking this over with a Washington Redskins trainer today, so thanks for the laugh.

 

well... that's what i got taught by experienced bodybuilders. there are probably more than one opinion on this subject and it seems like we'll never get to an common ground.

 

but thanks for staying so serious on this one.

[xjohanx]

Hilary, IMO you are being pretty fucking rude and I would expect that sort of behaviour from a stupid teenager but not from you.

Let's get real. There have been different studies done on stretching and they have shown different results. Some say never stretch, some say only before a workout, some say after and some says to do it 10 times a day.

The absolute first thing the instructor at my very first gym told me was that I should never stretch the muscles before a workout since it's increases the risk of injury (this is backed up by research), she also said that I should never stretch the muscles worked straight after a workout because this would inhibit growth. I should wait untill the morning after and do my stretching then (I have no idea if this is science or bullshit). The instructor was well educated (5 years university education in "Naprapati", which is probably the best education you can have if you want to work with athletes).

I have no idea if what she said is true but it totally conflicts with what you are saying. So I'm wondering, what's your education in this area and what proves that you're not speaking "total nonsense".

My point is mostly that even if Phil isn't correct in his statements there is no need to express yourself in the way you did since he thought that this was the truth. It's not like he planned to fool us all into never stretching so we would walk around sore and he could laugh at us. It's not so weird that people have different opinions in this matter since science isn't clear either.

About the massage. I've never heard that massage would be bad for recovery but I've heard that it's not optimal to receive a massage straight after a workout session. The muscle recovery part of massage is, from what I understand, the increased blood flow and after a workout the muscles are already filled with blood so it would make sense to wait. Maybe Zinzen can enlighten us all on this issue since he is a massage therapist.

[veganmomma]

xjohanx, I think you're overreacting to Hiliary's post. I don't think Hilary meant to be rude IMO.

Lets tone down the language and keep this discussion civil.

[xjohanx]

I might have overreacted I might have not. Since he more than one time called Phils posts nonsense and claimed to have laughed at them i think it's hard to not consider it rude. And pointing out that other don't back up their claims with science when he's not doing it himself just pisses me off. I didn't mean to come off that harsh but I think it was ignorant of Hilary.

[hilary wright]

I state what I have experienced and know to be true in my own personal experience. Stating that one should not stretch after a workout in nonsense . . . I have never said that one should stretch at any time, only that it is not damaging. If you think that I am rude, I have absolutely no problem with that. That goes under the catagory of "and that means what to me" . . .

[xjohanx]

Not caring what other people think can be a good thing in some cases, this is not one of them.

[hilary wright]

I take no offense in others sincere expression of how they feel towards me. In that sense, what you think of me doesn't matter to me.

[xjohanx]

Thank for clariying

[VeganEssentials]

Can't we all just get along?

 

Basically, it comes down to this -

 

Some sources say to only stretch before lifting.

 

Some say only to stretch afterward.

 

Some say to do both.

 

Some say to not stretch at all.

 

Basically, everyone could be right, and everyone could be full of crap when it comes to what is best for YOUR body. Try all options, find what works best for making you feel less sore, and that's what is right for YOU, but may not be right for everyone else.

 

How's that for a non-commitant answer?

[hsorlando]

I love your post sooo much!! Your answers to all these so called tough questions are always right to the point!

[Im Your Man]

Can't we all just get along?

 

Basically, it comes down to this -

 

Some sources say to only stretch before lifting.

 

Some say only to stretch afterward.

 

Some say to do both.

 

Some say to not stretch at all.

 

Basically, everyone could be right, and everyone could be full of crap when it comes to what is best for YOUR body. Try all options, find what works best for making you feel less sore, and that's what is right for YOU, but may not be right for everyone else.

 

How's that for a non-commitant answer?

I have the ultimate answer : do what your body say. . Personally, I've never felt the need to stretch after lifting weights, and I rarely see bodybuilders stretching in the sauna or in the locker rooms. In fact, I was one of the rare persons to stretch, because I've read in a magazine that it's a good thing to do. But I stopped after doing this for a few weeks. The only time of the day that my body tells me to stretch is in the morning when I wake up. So that's what I do.

[Lena01]

Can I add some more spice to the stretching discussion?-yes-thank you.

 

From my personal experience and what works for my body, overstretching is ver very bad. It happened to me once and I don't plan on doing it again. It creates microtears itself and it recovers slower.

 

Now, not stretching is very limiting and when I'm sore from a good day's workout, there's nothing better than stretching my pecs (ah, blissful feeling). Why? There's something called fascia that covers the muscles. It doesn't grow by working out, it is stretched by the muscle's growth and then it grows along. But when the muscle is inflammated or growing to fast the fascia can't keep up and then your muscle presses against the fascia wich also causes pain. By stretching you are helping you fascia become wider and longer, so the muscle won't have an limiting obstacle while growing. Stretching also helps to elongate blood vessels and nerves which ultimately brings more mobility to the muscle.

 

Somehow I can perceive a bit the difference between a person who stretches and one who doesn't. I might be getting it visually wrong. But what I described below completely works for me and I hope I don't get not-taken seriously because "I'm a girl and I don't work out like a dude".

 

Cheers!

[Im Your Man]

that's great Lena, you provide some light into this debate. I've always considered stretching essential for a fit body and that it helps for the muscles to grow normally. I wouldn't like to be the person who never stretch in his life. It happened a few times where I was in a camping site or whatever with over 40 people all waking up at the same time, I could see everybody after they wake up and eat breakfast etc, I was amazed that NOBODY were stretching except me and 2 or 3 others. Perhaps some just stretch their body for a second or two when they stumble out of bed, but rare are the ones that do a stretching session of few minutes. For the next days and during all day long I've seen almost nobody stretch.

[DaN]

johan wrote:

 

The absolute first thing the instructor at my very first gym told me was that I should never stretch the muscles before a workout since it's increases the risk of injury (this is backed up by research),

 

I used to stretch before doing weights & I must say, I experienced injuries more than if I dont, so I agree with what you have said.

 

Also I do light stretching, the day after, & it always feels really good, without it, I would seize up.

 

I agree with johans point about Hilary.Hilary, your posts were offensive & overly rude, you can disagree with someone, & even think they are talking complete crap, but disagree nicely, & laugh to yourself, not in their face.Unless of course they are being rude to you, in which case, its ok.But Phil wasnt being rude to you, & as such you come across like a complete arse.

 

Theres nothing cool with being rude to poeple who are not rude to you.

[el_flaco]

This applies to pretty much every muscle if i hit the gym hard after a couple of lax weeks

This is probably the most important point for me - if you want to avoid soreness while still training hard I think you have to stay regular in both frequency of gym visits and in the form of the workout.

 

I can train hard and heavy (for me) without soreness if I stick to the same basic exercises, low to medium reps (I'd hazard a guess that you go quite high volume on your chest workout) and look to make small increments in weight lifted each session.

 

Soreness is no barometer of performance, if it gets in the way of your other activities you have to train smart to avoid it.