General post: NYC resident, considering moving to the UK

[VegannNY]

Wondered if there was anyone on the board whose brain I could pick, discussing salaries, renting opportunities, standard cost of living etc (and Vegan places to go, and good gyms to join, too!). (Probably looking at London, though Edinburgh is a possibility too.) Thanks!!

[DaN]

You can pick my brains if you want mate.

 

What do you do for a living etc, let me know some basic stats & I will help as much as possible

 

[VegannNY]

DaN, that's awesome, thanks...!

 

Well, over here I'm a financial analyst with a Masters in Criminal Justice (we work with high net worth clients, preparing portfolio reports, transferring $$, etc.) What that really works out to is having a stockbroker license, being pretty competant with excel (as well as all the basic office software), and some specialized market software/hardware, like Bloomberg.

 

In reality, I'd be open to other ideas, too, as long as they paid enough to pay for a comfortable standard of living (not rich, don't need that.) Anything from animal related (that'd be a dream job), to anything in an office...

 

It's actually me, and my husband (he's a brewer, don't know that there would be anything like that available, though that's fine.) I'm thinking that London's the most obvious place to go, after NYC (I'm definitely cut out for metropolitan living.) But I've also heard it's expensive...even more expensive than NY? What would it cost to get a decent flat (say, 2 bedroom) within commutable distance to London? And are there other places in the UK and Britian we should consider? (My husband would kill to live in Edinburgh, though I question whether it's "city" enough for my tastes.

 

My only requirements - someplace that has reasonably priced, accessible gyms (hence, my bodybuilding lifestyle), preferably pet friendly...and affordable enough to get by, and maybe save a little bit, and splurge for something nice on the odd occasion.

 

It's surprising - I've started combing the web for information, and there's really not that much out there in terms of FAQ for Americans who want to relocate. Is it possible to get a job, and can it be affordable?

 

Thanks again - I REALLY appreciate any information you can provide. I love NYC, but I've lived here for over a decade. And I'm ready to see the rest of the world, darn it. (FYI, I have visited London, Edinburgh and Ireland...so I'm not completely blind as to any possible culture shock...)

 

THANKS!

[DaN]

I dont have time to answer today, as I am supposed to be doing some work (thats what they call it hehe )

 

But I will look into your questions, & give you some figures.

 

Very briefly, other places that are cosmopolitan options other than London:

 

Bristol, Bath, Brighton, Durham.

 

Bristol is like a smaller more affordable London.

Bath is a beautiful city with really old buildings.

Brighton is extremely good for drinking & socialising & has its own culture due to its high population of different types of peoples.

Durham is a nice cathedral city in the north, and has far cheaper property than the other cities I have listed because its nearer Scotland.The wages however are only a little bit less.There are simply less jobs there though.

 

Prices in London are very high, even for flats.The area I live in is called Buckinghamshire & is a county 30-45 minutes by car from London.Still quite rural, & because it is rural & near to London, all the brokers & bankers from London tend to live here.House prices are very high, but not quite as high as London.

 

I will look into wages for what you are doing for living & your partner.

 

Speak soon!

 

[VegannNY]

DaN, you're the best...thanks!!

[FormicaLinoleum]

Hey--I am an American ex-pat living in London, so I'm glad to answer questions, too.

 

I think the biggest issue for you to address is what kind of visa you might be eligible for. You won't be able to live and work here without one. Have you started looking into this?

 

I think that's number one to work out, as if it is not feasible for you to get a visa to move here, then none of the rest matters! This website was really helpful to me--especially check the section on visas: http://talk.uk-yankee.com/

 

(I am a British citizen by decent, so I didn't need a visa myself, but we did have to get one for my partner--based on that and all the reading of UK Yankee I did, I know a fair amount about them.)

[VegannNY]

Dear Liz -

 

Thanks for the info. I do know that a visa would be required, but haven't yet gotten down to the nitty-gritty of finding out how hard it would be to obtain. (I would have thought that information such as this would be *all over* the web, but it takes a little more leg-work than I expected.) Thanks also for the link...I'll be checking that out as soon as I get home tonight.

 

BTW, from what you've seen, how hard *is* it to get a Visa? And since everyone says that London is prohibitively expensive, what other cities - in your opinion - provide a big-city lifestyle for less $$?

 

Thanks...!!

[FormicaLinoleum]

How easy it is to get a visa depends on your situation. It can be anything from relatively easy through to very difficult or even impossible.

 

It's relatively easy for people who are spouses or partners of UK or EU citizens.

 

For those who are just US citizens who have no connection to a UK or EU citizen, it can be very hard. But then it also depends on your job experience and education.

 

Work-related visas have changed very recently, so I'm not really up-to-date on them. Take a look here: http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/. It seems there are two main methods: getting a job offer and having an employer sponsor you and also getting enough points to qualify under the Tier 2 scheme, or qualifying under the Tier 1 scheme as a highly skilled worker which would allow you to work here for around 2 years without being tied to a specific job offer.

 

It's not easy to get a work permit, as an employer has to give priority to UK and EU applicants. The more niche your skills are, the more likely you are to get a permit. If it's something that UK or EU applicants are likely to be able to do, chances of getting a work permit are low.

 

You should be able to do find a test on the above site that will allow you to see if you earn enough points for either the Tier 1 or Tier 2 schemes.

[el_flaco]

has far cheaper property than the other cities I have listed because its nearer Scotland.

Property is cheaper in the North BECAUSE it is nearer Scotland ????!!!?!?!?!?!?!!

 

WTF!!??!

[FormicaLinoleum]

As far as places to live, I haven't lived anywhere other than London in the UK (other than Bolton in the NW 20 years ago), so I can't really recommend any other cities. I do love Edinburgh, and I have been to Glasgow a few times and like it a lot, too. Maybe Glasgow wouldn't be to everyone's tastes, but I lived in Baltimore MD for 16 years and loved it, and Glasgow has a similar feel (but much older) to me.

 

London is expensive, but not necessarily prohibitively so. Loads of people do manage to live here, including many who are not rich! I know people with a range of jobs and incomes here. Many, many of them have flatmates, which helps the cost of living tremendously--this even includes married couples. But it is also possible for couples to afford to live on their own (it is quite hard for a single person to do so unless he/she has a very healthy income).

 

My partner and I make about £50K together, and we live on our own in a 1-bed apt in London. We are able to pay all our bills quite comfortably, but unfortunately don't really have anything left over for fun stuff. (It doesn't help that we are still paying school loans in the US as well.) The cost of flats varies by area, obviously. You basically have to weigh flat size against location--would you rather have a smaller flat in order to live in a nicer or more central area, or live in a somewhat less desireable area to get more space?

 

London is, unfortunately, not very pet friendly. Or at least landlords are not. We have a cat and a dog, and it has made flat-finding much harder than it otherwise would be. It would be easier with one pet, but definitely much easier with none. If you are buying, then that is not an issue.

 

Must run off to a meeting now, but am glad to answer more questions!

[FormicaLinoleum]

How easy it is to get a visa depends on your situation. It can be anything from relatively easy through to very difficult or even impossible.

 

It's relatively easy for people who are spouses or partners of UK or EU citizens.

 

For those who are just US citizens who have no connection to a UK or EU citizen, it can be very hard. But then it also depends on your job experience and education.

 

Work-related visas have changed very recently, so I'm not really up-to-date on them. Take a look here: http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/. It seems there are two main methods: getting a job offer and having an employer sponsor you and also getting enough points to qualify under the Tier 2 scheme, or qualifying under the Tier 1 scheme as a highly skilled worker which would allow you to work here for around 2 years without being tied to a specific job offer.

 

It's not easy to get a work permit, as an employer has to give priority to UK and EU applicants. The more niche your skills are, the more likely you are to get a permit. If it's something that UK or EU applicants are likely to be able to do, chances of getting a work permit are low.

 

You should be able to do find a test on the above site that will allow you to see if you earn enough points for either the Tier 1 or Tier 2 schemes.

 

I did a bit more reading on this (I'm nerdy and love to learn about this stuff). You could try for Tier 1 or Tier 2.

 

Tier 1 -- highly skilled workers: You need to get a minimum number of points based on education and past earnings. With a Master's degree, you basically have to have been earning somewhere around $70K+, and you'll most likely have enough points. There is a calculator on the immigration site so you can check how many points you have. If you can qualify, it would be better to go for this rather than Tier 2 as you are not tied to a particular job.

 

Tier 2 -- sponsored skilled worker, for if you have a job offer: You get some points for education or earnings, I think, but a large portion of the points relate to the job offer itself. You won't qualify for this unless it is a shortage occupation (there would be an official list somewhere, probably things like teaching and nursing where there aren't enough applicants to fill needs) or the employer can certify that there were no UK or EU applicants who were qualified for the job. The latter is not an easy thing to demonstrate.

 

Hope that's helpful!

[VegannNY]

Liz -

 

Thanks! Looks like I'd fit into Tier 1, though I do need to do more research before I'm done.

 

In the meantime, what's it like in terms of culture shock in England? Granted, I've visited, but are there certain things that take getting used to the longterm? (I've started reading ex-pat discussion groups, and apparently there are a certain number of Americans that find England requires some adjustment...) Thx...!

 

PS: what do you think of Brighton as a possiblity, or Manchester? (Commuting wise, I'd be okay with a 1 hour commute max to a job...kind of what I've got here in NYC...!)

[FormicaLinoleum]

It's hard for me to say as far as culture shock, as my mother is English, so I have been coming here and visiting family throughout my life and also lived here for a year as a teen. So I have basically always been familiar with English culture. My partner wasn't though, and she seems to have little problem. Of course, there are things that are done differently that can be a little annoying, but my partner hasn't had any major problems with adjusting. I think it varies from person to person.

 

I am not very familiar with Manchester or Brighton, even though my brother lived in Manchester for a number of years. Brighton is quite nice. I know a few people who have lived there--some loved it and some didn't really like it. It isn't really a city, though, so it would be a totally different feel. It is quite vegan-friendly, though!

[DaN]

Property is cheaper in the North BECAUSE it is nearer Scotland ????!!!?!?!?!?!?!!

 

WTF!!??!

 

 

The closer you get to Scotland, the cheaper the property is - thats just the way it is! I am not saying Scotland is turd - I love Scotland!

 

[DaN]

VegannNY,

 

I havent looked into salaries for you, to be honest I wouldnt know where to start.Although as a general rule, salaries here in the UK are relatively comparable with salaries in the US.I think a slight paycut is what you could expect, on the whole.One thing I would like to ask you, is why you want to move to the UK at all?

 

I agree with Formica, when he said that Brighton is not really a city - certainly not in the way NY is.To be honest, there are few big cities in the UK that compare with US cities in size.

 

On a side note, I would not recommend Manchester, but I would recommend a city I forgot to mention earlier - Newcastle.It has become extremely vibrant & cosmopolitan recently, & also is close to Durham, a place I mentioned in my previous posts.

 

[VegannNY]

DaN -

 

Fair enough question (and do please let me know if I'm somewhat off the mark on my reasoning.) I've lived in NYC for over a decade, and really want to see the rest of the world. Honestly, taking one week off a year to go to a country isn't going to do it - I'm in my late thirties, and could never see everything in time. My thought is that moving to Europe would allow me to branch out easier...and England's the most obvious place to go (both my husband and I speak basically English, and aren't looking to relocate to someplace where communication would be a difficulty.) Don't know...does that sound like a sufficient reason?

 

That aside, what's the gym situation in London? (In NYC, I can be sure of being within 5 blocks of a NYSC at all times, which is a huge plus for me...!) Anything comparable (or at least convenient and affordable) on that side of the pond?

[FormicaLinoleum]

Fair enough! London is a great place to travel from, too. It's so much easier to travel to other countries from here. (If you have the money to do it, that is!) And you get more annual leave. I have 6 weeks, though that is pretty high as a results of my being in academia. But 4 weeks is the min, and 5 weeks isn't uncommon. So you have more time to travel when you live here, too.

 

I don't know much about gyms here, as I don't use them (I work out at home). But there's a range of options. There are commercial gyms, council-run leisure centres, and university gyms. Some common commercial gyms are Fitness First and LA Fitness. Each borough will have a number of leisure centres--quality of gym equipment will probably vary quite a bit but it might be possible to find a leisure centre that has all you need, and leisure centres will be cheaper than commercial gyms.

[DaN]

Hey VegannNY,

 

Your reasoning sounds fair, I didnt mean the question in a challenging way, just wondered what your reasons were

 

I guess London is a great gateway into Europe, & if you are interested in places like France, Italy etc, then it is a good city to be.And of course, there is no language barrier, which I agree is a great help.The other place to consider from a language perspective is Australia.

 

The main negative point about England compared to the US is the prices of food, goods, property, and petrol.All of which, I believe are higher....Most importantly, check into house prices.

 

As far as gyms go, there are loads of them everywhere! I live in just a town, & there are atleast 15 gyms here.In London you would be spoilt for choice Membership costs vary depending on the quality of the gym, but shopping around will find you a good deal.

 

[VegannNY]

Sounds promising...

 

I'm leaning a little towards London due to my NYC bias (though Newcastle, hmmm? Also, I'd honestly consider Edinburgh and Glasgow too, if they have the same vibe) I like having areas of city to explore, with lots of variety. It kind of sounds like London has the same sort of layout as NYC, ie: we have outlying boroughs that most people live in, because Manhattan itself can get rather expensive. (We live in the Bronx, the borough that still has a rep as being somewhat dangerous, but our area is actually rather nice.) One negative on the London side - as I remember it, the tube has zones and you pay different amounts depending on where you're going. In NYC, it's a flat fare, and you can ride anywhere for $2.00 one way.

 

We definitely would want to rent a flat - not really in the position to buy! (And it looks like I'd fall into Tier 1, my husband into Tier 2.)

 

We're really basically making about $70K here...if I could get something comparable, I'm guessing it would be enough with something left over? Formica, you said you and your partner are making about 50K? Out of curiosity, what would prices be for some standard items in London?

 

For instance, in NYC, average prices include:

 

$1200 + for an apartment

$5 for a sandwich

$100 for a monthly gym membership

$4 for a commute back and forth on the subway

$75 monthly cell phone service

$150 for a suit, $30 for shoes (though, I always go to thrift stores!!!)

$150 for car insurance (wonder if we'd need a car at all, and what parking is like?)

 

Also, is there anything we should know about health insurance??

Also, how are the vegan options?

 

Honestly, you can't get by in NYC comfortably under $50K. People do manage it, but I'm really not sure how...and I'm a real pennypincher.

 

Thanks again for all the advice thus far... (Gee, if/when we move, maybe we could actually meetup! )

Edited November 14, 2008 by VegannNY

[bodybag]

$1200 + for an apartment

I used to rent a 3 bedroom house in Philly for $670 USD in 2001 in a good neighborhood.

[VegannNY]

...and believe me - $1200 is the low end in NYC!!!! (Probably would get you a studio or MAYBE a really bad one bedroom)

[FormicaLinoleum]

If you like exploring, you would love London! It's big, with loads of different neighborhoods. Many neighborhoods are more like their own little towns, and there are so many different types and feels of neighborhood. I've been here a year and a half and haven't put a dent in getting to know this city.

 

It does feel quite different from NYC to me, though I don't know NYC too well. London somehow feels a bit less big even though it covers a big area... but maybe that's because there is very little in the way of tall buildings and it really does often feel like a collection of neighborhoods.

 

(Hey--my parents live in Riverdale!)

 

Yes, London has zones and it costs more if you travel across more zones. (It also costs more to include zone 1, so zones 2-4 is cheaper than zones 1-3.)

 

If you were to qualify for Tier 1, your husband could just get a visa to accompany you as your spouse--he wouldn't need his own Tier1/2 visa.

 

Yeah, my partner and I make about £50K. I would estimate that if we had comparable jobs in the US we'd be making about $85-95K, if that gives you an idea of the translation. However, the relation between US and UK salary depends on the job. I'm in academia and make less here than I could in the US, but my partner makes more here than she would in a similar job in the US (she's a library assistant).

 

Hmm, it's hard to estimate typical prices here, because they can vary quite a bit (things can be very expensive, but you can also find deals if you look). But I'll give it a shot.

 

It's really hard to say about flats, because it will really depend on the area and the flat itself. In our experience, the flats that we have considered have been £850+/mo with most closer to the £1000/mo mark (mostly 1 beds). But we are somewhat picky, and have looked in limited areas of London. It is definitely possible to find cheaper if you care less about where you live. (e.g., I know a couple who pays about £850 for a 2-bed, but in an area we aren't interested in.) Unfortunately, having pets knocks out a lot of flats, making it harder to find a good deal.

 

£2.50+ for a sandwich

£50ish for a monthly gym membership

£4 for a commute back and forth on the tube across zones 1-2

£25+ monthly cell phone service (obvs depends how many minutes/texts you need)

I don't know about suits

No idea about car-related stuff but it really isn't necessary to have one here. I think it would be more annoying than useful to have one, but I do know some people (definitely a minority of the people I know) who do.

 

There are some costs here that don't exist in the US. Council tax is one--that is like property tax, but renters have to pay it as well. It depends on the borough you live in and the value of your flat, but somewhere in the realm of £100/mo for a 1-bed is probably usual. If you have a TV, you have to pay a license fee, which is about £13/mo.

 

There's not too much to know about health insurance. If you live here, you qualify for NHS, regardless of whether you are employed. It is also possible to get private insurance, but I don't quite see the point of it unless you feel you're at risk of having an annoying but non-urgent condition (e.g., sports injuries that don't require emergency care such as soft tissue damage). I've had good (though limited) experience with the NHS and so has my brother who had to have a bunch of tests for a non-life threatening condition.

 

Vegan stuff... London is OK for veganism, though I don't find it amazing. It's generally possible to find places to eat. Eating out is one thing that is quite expensive here, so maybe that is what makes me less than enthusiastic about vegan choices. I feel like food should be really good for the price one has to pay for it, but most of the time I end up feeling like I could have made something just as good myself for much less.

[VegannNY]

Liz -

 

Thanks! How *is* the tax situation, overall? Honestly, I was shocked when you wrote that there's a renter/council tax and even a TV tax...! (Is that even if you don't have service, and just keep it around to play DVDs??) Here in the States, we're paying around 30% tax...how much worse is it over on that end of the pond? Thx...!

[FormicaLinoleum]

If you own a television, you have to pay for a license. If you don't have a TV, you don't need the license. It doesn't matter whether you watch it or not, just whether you own one.

 

For people in my earning range income tax (PAYE) and National Insurance is lower here than in the US. I paid about 33% total federal, state, and local tax in the US and pay about 26% total PAYE and NI here.

[VegannNY]

...good to know, thanks!!