Why Haven't I Seen The Results?

[VeganEssentials]

Good points as usual, Ryan. I think if we could just agree to hold up flags that read "raw faith follower" or "scientific proof follower" and wave them during these debates then we could save a lot of typing!!

 

Perhaps Richard needs to craft us up some fine images that we can put in our sig line so it'll be visible as to which camp we side with. Should save a lot of time, for sure!

[hilary wright]

I just cured my broken leg by eating a Taco. I guess my image should be crafted in the form of a straight jacket.

[Guest]

XzebrasX, being a huge George Carlin fan myself, I almost choked on my tea while reading your last post!

 

Oh, Carlin is absolutely ace! One of the best comedians/social-political commentators ever.

 

Good points, Ryan.

 

And, Hilary, what would you recommend to eat for an achy lower back? Would hummus cure it? Or maybe some tofu on a toast? I'm open to any suggestions.

[DaN]

None of us know what causes the multitude of types of cancer, so none of actually know what will stop it.

 

So the fact that you are all claiming to be correct is infact a load of crap

 

>If eating raw food cured cancer, it would have caught on by now & cancer would be a word in history book.

 

>It is also apparent that modern medicine & science (which many of you cling to like a religion) is also not curing cancer, because if it did, cancer would be a word in a history book.

 

Raw foodists & drug dependants, none of you have the courage or intelligence to admit that you DONT KNOW.

 

Sometimes people, you can learn alot by working out what you dont know, not what you do.That is knowledge.Before you post your reply to me, take a few hours to think about it, deeply.

 

"Perfection is achieved not when nothing more can be added, but when nothing more can be taken away" ~ Alfred Einstein

 

"Everything I'm not, made me everything I am" ~ Kanye West

[DaN]

Any decent doctor will suggest a COMBINATION of conventional modern science & a good diet (which will revolve around fruits and vegeatables, vegetables conatining more nutrients when not boiled, ie: cooked)

 

Do you guys know the concept of COMBINATION?

 

You can all choose to wave your childish little flags as one person suggested saying 'raw foodist' & 'science fact'

 

Meanwhile I will continue flying my flag, the one that doesnt believe in limiting myself to any "sides" and following others blindly like sheep.

[blabbate]

Any decent doctor will suggest a COMBINATION of conventional modern science & a good diet (which will revolve around fruits and vegeatables, vegetables conatining more nutrients when not boiled, ie: cooked)

 

Do you guys know the concept of COMBINATION?

 

You can all choose to wave your childish little flags as one person suggested saying 'raw foodist' & 'science fact'

 

Meanwhile I will continue flying my flag, the one that doesnt believe in limiting myself to any "sides" and following others blindly like sheep.

I'm a bit put-off by this, since some of us are simply arguing against blanket condemnations. I haven't said that raw foods don't have any benefit, just that writing off all medicine as "bad" is silly. I think others are saying much the same thing.

 

Getting up on your high horse, lumping us all together, and dismissing us as "sheep" isn't helping anything.

[DaN]

Blabbate wrote::

I haven't said that raw foods don't have any benefit

Then maybe my comments were not actually aimed at you?

 

I was reffering more to:

 

Hilary wrote:

I just cured my broken leg by eating a Taco

&

 

xzebrasx wrote:

Suggesting to sit back, relax and have a glass of juice if you've got cancer is nothing short of being deluded or, indeed, crazy

 

For fellow vegans to dismiss diet as a VITAL part of overall health including its ability to combat illness is surprising.They should know better, but then I already know that some of them know very little, while thinking they know very much.

[DaN]

xzebrasx wrote:

Suggesting to sit back, relax and have a glass of juice if you've got cancer is nothing short of being deluded or, indeed, crazy

 

FYI, if you have cancer, it is VITAL that you provide your body with an optimum diet, which we can all agree is a vegan diet high in vegetables & fruit, including other natural foods high in vitamins & nutrients.It is in my opinion of equal importance as taking conventional medicine, which I presume is what you would "sit back & relax" with.

 

Veganessentials wrote:

There have been cases of people who abandoned all modern medicine and used raw diets as "cures", only to find that they didn't always work, and such people have had to resort to modern medicinal treatments or accept death would soon follow. I'm just curious from the raw perspective as to what explanation there is when someone suffering from a life-threatening ailment goes raw yet doesn't find that it didn't solve their problems

 

I'm just curious from the modern medicine perspective as to what explanation there is when someone suffering from a life-threatening ailment goes modern medicine yet doesnt find that it didnt solve their problems.

 

You see my point? I'll answer your question & mine at the same time.NEITHER can cure cancer outright, all of the time.Both need to be combined to be most effective.

 

[VeganEssentials]

Veganessentials wrote:

There have been cases of people who abandoned all modern medicine and used raw diets as "cures", only to find that they didn't always work, and such people have had to resort to modern medicinal treatments or accept death would soon follow. I'm just curious from the raw perspective as to what explanation there is when someone suffering from a life-threatening ailment goes raw yet doesn't find that it didn't solve their problems

 

I'm just curious from the modern medicine perspective as to what explanation there is when someone suffering from a life-threatening ailment goes modern medicine yet doesnt find that it didnt solve their problems.

 

You see my point? I'll answer your question & mine at the same time.NEITHER can cure cancer outright, all of the time.Both need to be combined to be most effective.

 

 

Actually, you seem to have overlooked the bulk of my post (which is everything below the question you quoted, mind you ), which says that a combination of both would seem to be the best idea and that neither side can completely dismiss the other. I was simply posing questions to IYM, who is vehemently anti-medicine and has stated his opinions that raw will be the best way to treat ailments by far. He's openly stated, in so many words, that he'd pretty well choose to die rather than get a blood transfusion or many medical treatments because of a quasi-religious view on the powers of being raw. Just as well, he spoke for L&G on what L&G would do if he were diagnosed with cancer, which I found rather pretty silly (and bordering on inappropriate) since NOBODY can speak for another person they do not know, particularly when it comes to a situation such as the one being posed. IYM's attitude is that if you're raw, you need to dismiss medicine because it's only going to make things worse. We don't know what L&G would do if he were diagnosed with cancer, but IYM seems to think that if you're raw, partaking in medicinal treatments is out of the question and would not be considered. THAT'S the kind of attitude that I find perplexing, hence my questions to him as to why he so readily dismisses all other options beyond what he THINKS is what he would do if he were in that situation (which, he is not, and it is possible that IYM would open his mind to other possibilities when faced with a life-or-death situation. Speculation is NOTHING like being put to the test.)

 

I'm not against a raw diet for optimal health in any way, but I do believe that anyone who says that they're the cure-all for everything and insists that modern medicine is bunk and "toxic" in all instances has deluded themselves with religious-type fervor and excessive faith in the all-encompassing powers of a raw diet. IYM holds this notion, yet for some reason you seem to focus your unhappiness toward everyone except him, when he's quite guilty of the same thing that you've decided to bring up in this post. Being open to all ideas within reason is key, and again, that's what I was getting at below when I specifically said that there's also too many examples of people who made only dietary changes and managed to conquer serious illnesses (though, quite a few people have managed the same "miracles" through cooked food diets like macrobiotics, so that leaves a few more questions as to why raw would be the only way to go when other options have been shown). If I were diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, I'd certainly go raw AND take advantage of modern medicine - why not attack the enemy with all things in your favor rather than believe that only part will be 100% guaranteed to work?

 

Just for the sake of clearing myself from the snippet that would make me appear to be completely anti-raw, let me just re-state what you chose to leave out of your quote:

 

"I think that the lack of desire to understand opposing perspectives on both sides is what gets everyone into this redundant mess over and over again. I do believe that there's a strong possibility that SOME people can overcome illnesses via specific diets (raw and macrobiotic come to mind first), while others will NEED modern medical treatments because a change of diet is not going to do the trick. Too many people claim to have overcome terrible illness through diet change alone to dismiss it from having potential, but at the same time, to believe that all people will be able to cure all health problems via diet alone is completely insane. Some people will respond best to a change in diet, others to modern medicine, so I don't think that there's only one way for things to work for all people because, quite simply, we're all too different to make a blanket statement regarding all people."

 

Leaving those important parts out regarding my post that both sides have valid points makes me easier to target as an example for your finger-pointing above, even though I said much along the lines as to what you have. Just promise me not to take a fraction of my posts to be used in your favor for argument when I clearly agree with most of what you're saying. But, I'll let it slide this time because I'm nice like that

[Guest]

DaN, I suggest you to relax a little bit. I DID NOT say that eating healthy foods is unimportant. Of course it's important! If eating healthy is important for healthy individuals, than, surely, it's even more important for those who are ill. What I WAS saying is that it seems crazy to me that there are people who claim miracles can happen only through diet alone. There may be SOME people who succeed in combating cancer that way, but the vast majority don't. That's it. Get down from that high horse, man.

[hilary wright]

Zebra, you seem to know the correct recipe for fixing your sore back already!

You soak yourself in the hummas while eating the tofu on toast (making sure that it is raw toast)

This COMBINATION therapy is sure to heal your sore lower back.

[DV]

I love you guys, for different reasons, but you all made my morning.

[DaN]

Veganessentials, I appreciate your logical stance & I agree the quote I took out of your post was not the full story, I am not criticising you or your posts because in fact I agree with all you have said.I was just pointing out that the quote I highlighted can be reversed

 

I agree that IYM may be extreme with his viewpoint, I just want to point out that the opposite view to his is also extreme & that infact both medicine & good food would be a persons best course in case of any disease.

 

xzebrax, perhaps I do need to calm down a little.I do get passionate when I see a nice guy like IYM being mocked in a rude way, when he is simply stating his beliefs.By the way, my horse only seems high when you are looking at me from the floor.

 

My comments were more aimed at rude comments from people like Hilary (what kind of name is that for a guy anyway?)

 

Pausing from his useless & unintelligent comments to IYM, he now moves on to me, commenting on my COMBINATION point:

 

Zebra, you seem to know the correct recipe for fixing your sore back already!

You soak yourself in the hummas while eating the tofu on toast (making sure that it is raw toast)

This COMBINATION therapy is sure to heal your sore lower back

 

What is funny HILARY is that you have completely failed to grasp what my COMBINATION point actually meant because you seem to think I have suggested soaking yourself in hummus? Everybody else who has read this has grasped it, you have not... do you need someone to spell it out for you?

 

[DaN]

By the way Hilary, how is taost suppoosed to be raw, when toast is the word that describes heated bread?

 

Oh dear...

 

[veggieprincess]

I haven't read through this whole thread... just the last page... but it seems to me Dan... that Hilary always throws in a lighthearted JOKE when people start to argue... and you're taking his comments personally when that's just his "thing"...

 

He's a great balance to the board in that way because he never seems to take himself or others very seriously... and I think that's awesome!

[thendanisays]

i dont know if anyone remembers over the summer during vv08, giacomo(Lean and Green) had an "accident" for lack of a better word that ended in an AWFUL and PAINFUL infection in his testicles..... and upon going to the emergency room, he immediately began taking the antibiotics prescribed to him. and no he wasn't happy about it, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. and if he hadn't he may have lost his testicles.....

 

this was following a 46 day juice feast, so i'm sorry, but raw isn't a cure all and giacomo is one of, if not, THE healthiest person i know. but he knows that illness is still possible, and takes dietary measures to AVOID it, but if it happens, he knows sometimes he's gotta bite the bullet and follow doctor's orders.

 

 

just to clear THAT up.

[beforewisdom]

OMG, your post just opens a candy store of possible crude jokes as rejoinders

[thendanisays]

OMG, your post just opens a candy store of possible crude jokes as rejoinders

 

listen, if there were a nicer way to put it......but there's really not. oh well. let the jabs begin!

[hilary wright]

I will sign off from this thread with a cure for "highhorseness":

1 quart prune juice

1 cup psyllium husks

2 tbls mineral oil

1 cup diced plums

Place in blender and puree

Drink at least 3 glasses a day until blockage is removed

 

. . . and I still have a bridge for sale

 

Wishing all (and I do mean all) a peaceful and happy holidays!

 

Thanks DV for the holiday wishes, Hsiao-Fang and I had a lovely vegan Thanksgiving, and thanks Veggie Princess for getting my jokes, you rock!

[blabbate]

listen, if there were a nicer way to put it......but there's really not. oh well. let the jabs begin!

Oooh, what an unfortunate way to phrase it ...

[blabbate]

i dont know if anyone remembers over the summer during vv08, giacomo(Lean and Green) had an "accident" for lack of a better word that ended in an AWFUL and PAINFUL infection in his testicles.....

As if there's any other sort of injection into the testicles.

[DV]

To all you guys who really get it, let me just say again that you all make my day!

[VeganEssentials]

To all you guys who really get it, let me just say again that you all make my day!

 

Awww.....we're fantastic, aren't we?

 

And, might I add, it's good to see you and Hilary back again! Not that you'd disappeared for long, but I was starting to wonder about that Hilary fella

[xjohanx]

his testicles..

Hahaha, you said testicles

 

 

lost his testicles.....

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

 

 

No but in all seriousness that incident must have been horrible. I totally hate taking meds and I haven't taken any since I was 6 but I know that I probably will have to sometime, the only thing one can do is to protect themselves as best as they can through diet, excersise etc. I acctually got intresten in health because I didn't want to take animal tested medicines like all the other vegans did.

And in not so seriousness again that incident was the cause of one of the best quotes I've ever read. I think it was posted in the VV quotes or something and it was something like "I ride my bike 5 hours every day but then I eat cooked food which keeps my sperm in the right direction". I HOPE YOUR TESTICLES ARE DOING FINE NOW LEAN & GREEN!!

[DV]

Yeah he had us all worried. The hubby and I are on our way to the coast to celebrate our anniversary and I get a call on my cell from L&G. I'm thinking it might not be so bad, but still agreeing that going to the ER is the best thing, when I tell my husband the symptoms - and he tells us that L&G could lose a testicle. So basically, I spent my first day on the beach worried about L&G's testicular health. He has a way of getting into your life, that one.