Heat Shock Proteins...The New Supplement Revolution

[strawberryriddick]

I went to a kind of supplement convention and the hot new thing revolves around supplements for HSP (Heat Shock Proteins). So, before you try to analyze what the amounts of this new proprietary blend for MuscleBlech (er, MuscleTech) is, here's the short and skinny of it. The MRI guy there was the one who knew his stuff and he spent about an hour trying to get everyone to understand what the hell they were. Hopefully, I can compress this and still make it understandable.

 

 

HSP's are not dietary proteins, but rather a protein in your system...an enzyme. They exist in your system.

When you consume protein, it becomes broken down into amino acids, and those amino acids build cells in your system, including muscle cells. HSP's are the guys that fold the aminos properly to repair/build cells.

So, HSP's are the enzymes that make muscles a reality.

 

HSP's activate 2 hours after you're stressed...which includes stressing your body with exercise. They jump in and start dealing with whatever it is you did to yourself. They're damage control, basically...trying to rebuild and refortify all the crap you did Stress comes in many fashions and the HSP's react accordingly...you can't just get really pissed off in traffic and expect your muscles to get bigger as a result!

 

 

That said, here are the current HSP products and how they work.

 

MuscleTech

As I listed in my Ask A Supplement Store Employee thread, MuscleJoke is not only not vegan, but not even a vegetarian-friendly company as they put some kind of animal extract/product in each of their supplements. Even their protein has beef in it. Go figure. Anyway, they have an HSP product called MyoShock HSP. The active ingredient? Caffeine...400mg of it. The goal here is to stress your body before the workout, so that 2 hour waiting period for your HSP's to activate occurs sooner after your workout. For example, if you workout for 1 hour, then 1 hour later your HSP's will come to the rescue. If you take MyoShock HSP 30 minutes before your workout and you workout for 1 hour, then 30 minutes later your HSP's come to the rescue. Less waiting time. "But SR, can't I just down 4 shots of espresso before my workout and have that do the same thing?" Yes, and it'll be vegan at that, and you won't have to deal with the 7-pill serving size. This product has been tested in vitro and claims to boost muscle size in 12 weeks.

 

 

GNC

GNC will be coming out with an HSP product that will work in pretty much the same way that MyoShock HSP will. You know how all N.O. powders work pretty much the same with a slight variation on taste and ingredient amounts? Yeah, it's like that.

 

 

MRI

At the cutting edge yet again, MRI did their research for HSP Active.

HSP's activate under stress, and as all organic life is made of proteins, even plants have HSP's. They found that cactus fruit has an unusually high amount of HSP activity (the stressor being the constant sun exposure), and that animals who ate this fruit also had higher-than-normal HSP counts. They went ahead and extracted this compound (called Tex-OE, which has been studied by many groups and many companies, not just MRI). They learned that no fiber can be present for it to work, which is not only why you can't just eat cactus fruit and hope for the best, but also why it's in a gelatin capsule despite the fact that their research/development leader is a vegan (the contents are completely vegan, however). The way Tex-OE works is by priming your HSP to react sooner. Instead of 2 hours, HSP activates after just 6 minutes. Not only are they faster to respond, but more of them do. Think about it as being upgraded from your local police force to the National Guard...more of them ready to work. HSP Active not only increases the size of the muscle cell, but also the amount of muscle cells. The claim is an average of 18% strength increase in 7 days, which was tested on adult athletes. Far be it for me to suggest that we vegans go out and buy this gelatin capsule, but I will say that we were given a 30 day supply while at the convention, and since I didn't have to pay money to supporting the capsule, I went ahead and used it (cracked the capsule open, of course). Some of you may notice that I recently posted gains in my biceps and triceps on my workout journal, and that does average out to an approximate gain of 18% in just 7 days. I am rather impressed by this product, and the serving size in mind-blowing (2 capsules every other day if you're under 200lbs, 3 capsules every other day if you're over 200lbs). I asked the research/development guy about these new capsules, so here's hoping they'll put these seaweed-based bad boys in the product instead.

 

 

It should be noted that none of these products will reduce your count/activity level of HSP once you stop taking them.

 

 

 

Anyway, just wanted to make sure ya'll got the right information about it, because God knows these companies will write all kinds of things in their ads and you just never know what to make of it.

Edited March 31, 2009 by strawberryriddick

[Nathan Nearing]

Thank you. This will save us all a lot of time.

[cubby2112]

I wonder if there will be any effect of lowered levels of HSP production if someone goes off of this after using it for a prolonged period. If not, it sounds fairly promising.

[strawberryriddick]

I wonder if there will be any effect of lowered levels of HSP production if someone goes off of this after using it for a prolonged period. If not, it sounds fairly promising.

This is such a great point/question that I need to edit my original post to mention this. This actual question was posed to the MRI rep (who actually is the dude in charge of MRI) who stated that once you stop taking the product, your HSP returns to normal. There is no rubber-band effect.

 

With the other two being based on just stressing your body, they wouldn't reduce HSP counts/activity because that's what your HSP does: responds to stress.

 

 

Great question.

[cubby2112]

I wonder if there will be any effect of lowered levels of HSP production if someone goes off of this after using it for a prolonged period. If not, it sounds fairly promising.

This is such a great point/question that I need to edit my original post to mention this. This actual question was posed to the MRI rep (who actually is the dude in charge of MRI) who stated that once you stop taking the product, your HSP returns to normal. There is no rubber-band effect.

 

With the other two being based on just stressing your body, they wouldn't reduce HSP counts/activity because that's what your HSP does: responds to stress.

 

 

Great question.

 

Cool, thanks. Is the stuff still working for you?

 

I'd like to give this stuff a whirl. Can't wait until when/if they make vegan caps. They could also make it into a scoopable powder, that would be cool.

[strawberryriddick]

Cool, thanks. Is the stuff still working for you?

 

I'd like to give this stuff a whirl. Can't wait until when/if they make vegan caps. They could also make it into a scoopable powder, that would be cool.

 

I do know that I did go up in weights for some of my tricep/bicep exercises, and despite the current problem with my pecs, I still actually did go up in weight on one exercise even though I had to take 2 weeks off of lifting (went down in weight on another exercise, and stayed the same on two others).

 

I also did ask about the powdered version, and he said that they were in caps for ease-of-use, so a powder won't be coming out. The pills are quite small and the serving size is therefore also tiny, and it would be rather difficult to make such a teeny, tiny scoop without adding bulk to the mix...and they just want to keep it straight Tex-OE extract, which I can respect.

[cubby2112]

Ah, I see. Are those seaweed caps you were talking about low fiber/fiber free? Most seaweed gelatin/thickener substitutes I have seen are pure fiber.

[strawberryriddick]

Ah, I see. Are those seaweed caps you were talking about low fiber/fiber free? Most seaweed gelatin/thickener substitutes I have seen are pure fiber.

The current round of seaweed caps is just fiber, which is why MRI doesn't use them. The new ones are supposed to replace softcaps and should be free of fiber...at least that's the impression I was given as the guy wants to use them for the supplement.

[medman]

I cannot possibly caution more against throwing money away on this.

 

HSPs are large, 3-dimensional intracellular proteins. Your body cannot and will not absorb intact, functional protein and transport them into your cells. They will be hydrolyzed (broken into many, many small peptides and free amino acids) by your digestive enzymes such as pepsin, trypsin, etc. If they were not digested in this way, the epithelium of your small intestine (where protein absorption occurs) could not transport them into your circulation.

 

Furthermore, the concept that taking these could cause your HSPs to respond in 6 minutes instead of 2 hours is beyond ludicrous. This is why: HSPs are transcriptionally-regulated. That means that, when conditions (such as heat, acidity, metabolic stress, etc) call for increased levels of HSPs, the cell turns on the genes that encode HSPs. Those genes (DNA) must be transcribed to RNA, and then the RNA must undergo translation by ribosomes to produce the protein. This is what is responsible for the time lag.

 

I'm sorry, but the GI and cell physiology behind what they are claiming makes less than zero sense. Even in strawberryriddick's post, he says "When you consume protein, it becomes broken down into amino acids, and those amino acids build cells in your system, including muscle cells. HSP's are the guys that fold the aminos properly to repair/build cells. So, HSP's are the enzymes that make muscles a reality."

 

Try to read that statement for consistency..."When you eat a protein, it becomes broken down into amino acids"...."Now, eat this protein, it will help make other proteins". Yes, proteins are broken down to amino acids. No, HSPs would not be an exemption to this rule...they too will be broken down into amino acids.

 

I apologize if this post sounds harsh. It's just that I did my undergrad in physiology, and these claims go against several basic tenets of how our bodies work.

 

EDIT: I just re-read SR's original post and wanted to make 2 more observations. One was that researchers found the animals eating that cactus also had elevated HSPs...could this not have to do with the animals living in a desert environment (very harsh, full of stressors), rather than attributing this to their diet of cactus? They're missing a crucial step of feeding cactus to animals and seeing if their levels rose as a result, to show this isn't a sampling bias caused by examining desert-dwelling animals. In other words...if the environment is harsh enough to make cactuses upregulate HSPs, wouldn't it also be harsh enough to make animals upregulate HSPs as well?

 

The second point is this: They claim that the HSPs have to be consumed without fibre, so eating the cactus wouldn't help you. Didn't they just argue that eating the cactus was exactly what was benefitting these animals they point to as evidence?

Edited March 16, 2010 by medman

[Vegan Joe]

Thanks Doc,

I was unwilling to even read past the first couple of line.

[cubby2112]

The second point is this: They claim that the HSPs have to be consumed without fibre, so eating the cactus wouldn't help you. Didn't they just argue that eating the cactus was exactly what was benefitting these animals they point to as evidence?

 

That was my main contention. I never ended up trying it, because I couldn't find any studies or anything on it, just marketing claims. That and the gelatin only capsule. You have a good point: I could just go to a Twilight convention. That alone would elicit a much greater stress response than any supplement ever could. Great way to get some CNS burnout.

[medman]

Bahaha, Twilight convention? I didn't even know such a thing existed. Frightening.

[strawberryriddick]

Thanks for the scrutiny, Medman. Articles must be read with a grain of skepticism! Let's see if I can address your concerns.

 

Even in strawberryriddick's post, he says "When you consume protein, it becomes broken down into amino acids, and those amino acids build cells in your system, including muscle cells. HSP's are the guys that fold the aminos properly to repair/build cells. So, HSP's are the enzymes that make muscles a reality."

 

Try to read that statement for consistency..."When you eat a protein, it becomes broken down into amino acids"...."Now, eat this protein, it will help make other proteins". Yes, proteins are broken down to amino acids. No, HSPs would not be an exemption to this rule...they too will be broken down into amino acids.

I think that, in your zeal, you skimmed over the first sentence in the second paragraph: "HSP's are not dietary proteins, but rather a protein in your system...an enzyme. They exist in your system." So I was not saying "Now, eat this protein, it will help you make other proteins." Not at all.

 

To clarify again: when you take an HSP product, you are not consuming HSP's, and HSP's are not dietary protein anyway.

 

I'm not sure how exactly you missed that...it was the sentence that immediately preceded the one you quoted here. Perhaps this is why this seems to make "less than zero sense." If I was suggesting that HSP's were being consumed and that HSP's were dietary protein, then the confusion would be absolutely warranted...but, as I showed, I never said that and, in fact, stated otherwise.

 

Oh, and not a "he," by the way

 

 

One was that researchers found the animals eating that cactus also had elevated HSPs...could this not have to do with the animals living in a desert environment (very harsh, full of stressors), rather than attributing this to their diet of cactus?

Great question. I forgot to mention that they noted the HSP level increased after eating the fruit.

 

They claim that the HSPs have to be consumed without fibre, so eating the cactus wouldn't help you. Didn't they just argue that eating the cactus was exactly what was benefitting these animals they point to as evidence?

This was fine for the animals (turtles, I believe...I wrote this a while ago) that consumed it, but is not fine for us. When we consume the Tex-OE with fiber as one would by consuming the fruit by itself, it blocks the absorption. This does not occur in the animals. Sort of how dogs can eat rotted, bloated, decayed, 7-days-dead opossum off the side of the road and be perfectly fine, but if we tried to do that, we'd become very sick. To use a less gross example, chocolate is fine for humans but damaging to dogs. After all, if it was so easy as to just powder the cactus fruit and put that in a pill instead of having to extract the Tex-OE, don't you think the company would have done so in order to save time and money?

 

Thanks Doc,

I was unwilling to even read past the first couple of line.

Well, the problem, as pointed out above, is that sometimes people can misread things. That means that instead of reading the information for yourself and formulating an opinion, you read the feedback to a post misunderstood.

 

 

 

For those of you, like Cubby, who stated that you were wary and uninterested in trying some fancy-packaged snake oil, I will tell you that I have tried the product. I was given a month's supply by MRI for attending the convention, and I took the powder (removed the capsule) to see if it met all its claims. After all, a company that tests on adult athletes and only includes one ingredient in their product is pretty ballsy, and I wanted to see if there was any truth to it. I tried it and did notice some of the claims on the box...that I could quantify, anyway. I don't know if the HSP's "activated faster," but there was some claim of increasing strength "up to 20% in just 7 days" that I did notice was true. In fact, the product helped me overcome a plateau I had been experiencing for the previous few weeks. It was because the product worked so well and I didn't want to buy gelatin capsules that I contacted MRI to see about veggie caps and learned that the head product creator is vegan and was trying to find a veggie cap that was sans cellulose so that the product could work.

 

 

EDIT: Cubby, you said you couldn't find anything but marketing claims on the stuff. Did you search HSP or Tex-OE?

For Tex-OE, I found it was being marketed for other things (hangover cure and anti-fatigue): http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/03/prweb511866.htm

But that was about it (I mean, there were other articles, but more of the same). I contacted MRI and asked where I could find the research...will post when I hear back.

[medman]

strawberryriddick,

 

Sorry, but I didn't misread. I am fully aware of HSPs, their location within cells, and their function within the body. However, because this is a supplement, based on this cactus with elevated HSPs, and the name of the supplement being "HSP active", it really sounded like they were selling HSPs in a pill. So if that is not the case, what is it they're selling? A protein/glycoprotein/mucoprotein/carbohydrate/glycolipid or lipid compound that is supposed to cause your body to produce more HSPs? Nowhere did I read what the substance actually is.

 

And my apologies for getting your gender wrong!

[strawberryriddick]

However, because this is a supplement, based on this cactus with elevated HSPs

To clarify: a compound in the cactus fruit, Tex-OE, was found to raise HSP levels, not actually contain HSP. Tex-OE is not a form of HSP, but was found to activate the HSP levels. Perhaps this part wasn't clear.

 

So if that is not the case, what is it they're selling?

Tex-OE, and, surprisingly, only Tex-OE. There's only a single ingredient in the pill, and that's pretty awesome if you ask me. As I mentioned in my previous post, I contacted MRI to see where I could find the research information as the only search results for Tex-OE that I and Cubby found were ads for other stuff.

 

Nowhere did I read what the substance actually is.

As I stated in the first post: "They went ahead and extracted this compound (called Tex-OE, which has been studied by many groups and many companies, not just MRI)." For the GNC and MuscleTech, I state that the active ingredient is caffeine and how that is supposed to stimulate the HSP's.

 

And my apologies for getting your gender wrong!

No worries...I just have a picture of a bad ass feline

[FormicaLinoleum]

I have a really basic question. What difference does it make when the HSPs start working? What advantage is it if they start working 30 min after a workout relative to 60 or 90 min after a workout?

[strawberryriddick]

I have a really basic question. What difference does it make when the HSPs start working? What advantage is it if they start working 30 min after a workout relative to 60 or 90 min after a workout?

That's a great question. Most people take a post-workout shake, with many taking a pre-workout. These allow amino acids to be available in your system...but they cannot do anything without the help of the HSP's to "fold" the amino acids to become whatever it needs to be (muscle, skin, etc.). For the same reason that you may take a pre/post workout shake and/or amino acid supplement, you'd want the HSP's to activate sooner to repair the damage to your muscles (from exercise) that much quicker.

 

On top of this, the amount activated (only boasted by MRI's product, not the GNC or MuscleTech ones), also affect the ability to "fold" proteins, how well, and how many.

 

Basically, the HSP's are the limiting factor. Just as you can only force a certain number of cars across a bridge, you can only get a certain number of aminos to become muscle (or another tissue)...the HSP's are the bridge in this case. Making amino acids available for the body to use during/post workout is great...but if the HSP's aren't going to activate for another 1-2 hours, then it limits how well the muscle can repair (this is a school of thought known as "Nutrient Timing," take it for what it is). With the MRI product, it claims that because more HSP's are available, more muscle can be created (claims to increase hypertrophy and hyperplasia)...sort of like how you can widen a bridge to allow for more cars.

 

 

 

Did that make sense? I can clarify further if need be!

[chrisjs]

Most importantly, the HSP products are all not vegan, correct?

[strawberryriddick]

Most importantly, the HSP products are all not vegan, correct?

The ones currently on the market, yes, like I mentioned in the OP. Here's the break-down:

 

MuscleTech: Upon contacting MT at a point in the past to ask which of their products were vegan, I was informed that none of them were even vegetarian. Beef and/or pork is in all their products.

 

GNC: GNC does produce vegetarian-friendly products in a separate facility, and the only way you'll know is on the front of the container. The products, if in pill form, are given in the order of number of pills and type of pills. For example, "180 Softgel Capsules." If the product is vegetarian-friendly, it will say, "180 Vegetarian Capsules" or whatever form the pill is in...but it has their vegetarian logo on there. If the product is a powder, it will say in the list of "talking points" that the product is vegetarian-friendly. If the product is vegetarian-friendly, it almost always is vegan friendly. Because GNC has yet to release their HSP product to my knowledge, I cannot say whether it is produced in their vegetarian facility or not. If a product seems vegan-friendly because of the ingredients but does not state that it is vegetarian, then it was produced in their regular facility. I was informed that, should you buy a product made in their regular facility, that beef will be in the product.

 

MRI: The active ingredient, Tex-OE, is 100% vegan-friendly. It comes from a cactus fruit. The capsule, however, it gelatin-based. Despite the head of the department being vegan, the gelatin capsule was necessary because vegetable capsules contain fiber (in the form of cellulose), and fiber interferes with the absorption of Tex-OE in humans (which is why one cannot just go eat cactus fruit to experience the same effects...but do eat it anyway, it's delicious).

[medman]

I guess the question I had in mind when stating "nowhere did I read what the substance actually is" was not what they called it ("Tex-OE"), but what its actual chemical composition is. Calling it a "compound" gives no information as to what it is composed of...carbohydrates, lipids, glycoproteins, phytoestrogens, amines...these are all "compounds". All those NO-xplode type products, for example, try to explain how the chemical composition of their product is supposed to lead to increased NO levels (regardless of whether or not they actually work). So I'm curious as to what this Tex-OE stuff actually is, and what their explanation for its mechanism of action is (e.g. is it a hormone that is supposed to increase transcription of HSPs?).

[strawberryriddick]

So I'm curious as to what this Tex-OE stuff actually is, and what their explanation for its mechanism of action is (e.g. is it a hormone that is supposed to increase transcription of HSPs?).

That's why I asked them for the information. All I know about it is that it's some extract from the cactus plant...don't actually know what the chemical composition is. I do know that it's supposed to increase recruitment and speed of activation of HSP's, but will need to read the documentation to find out why. I know they started doing HSP research back in the 70's, I believe, on either fruit flies or mosquitoes.