My message to Robert

[violet13]

My point is different people interpret my message differently and I do not get negative response from people on other forum except VF forum and Christian forums when I post same message with same style.

Sorry if my message offend some people on this forum.

[Jay]

Do you see?

[willpeavy]

I think it's a lost cause...

[AllIveEverTouched]

My guess is I am dealing with different type of people on this forum.

 

That is correct. However, no matter where you go in life you will find all sorts of different people. Do you pick and choose who to get your message to the way some vegetarians pick and choose chicken and fish as okay?

 

One poster told me that she wlll never forget your strong statement and that is what made me vegan.

 

That is wonderful and I'm glad you had that effect on someone. Does everyone turn vegan as a result of what you say, though? Was it how you said it or what you were speaking about that made them vegan?

 

Of course some people did not enjoy my messages but least some of them said to me that they are eating much less animal products after I exposed reality of meat/dairy/egg industries.

 

Do you think they would give up animal products altogether if you approached them with a more intelligent message?

 

There are two types of people on this planet. People who put their own enjoyment over animal suffering and people who risk their own lives to save animals. We cannot be coward if we want to promote animal rights.

 

There are many more than two types of people, please don't oversimplify the task at hand in encouraging people to go vegan. I certainly don't risk my life when I wake up in the morning for animals and something tells me that you don't either.

 

My point is different people interpret my message differently

 

I believe this is the same point many people here are trying to make to you. Although you can't control how someone will interpret your message you can certainly control how you deliver the message.

 

Sorry if my message offend some people on this forum.

 

In my opinion there's really no need to be sorry, just more mindful about what you say and how you say. I don't believe you're a bad person or anything and I don't think anyone else does either.

[violet13]

AllIveEverTouched, how do you know I did not deliver my message intelligently?

Did you read my message?

No, you even don't know what I said and how I said.

It is so interesting to know how some people's imagination work.

Can you deliver your message intelligently?

Please show me example.

When I came to this forum, I had no idea about I am going to be insulted and get attack by some supposedly AR people.

Some people on this forum are so busy to insult me and keep attacking me but where is fruit of supposedly intelligent people who can deliver their messages so effectively?

I hope you are smart enough to know what fruit means.

[violet13]

AllIveEverTouched, didn't you say if I delivered my message intelligently enough, I could convert all meat eaters to vegans?

I doubt if you can convert one person.

It is mistake for you to think that it is easiest thing for AR activists to change mind of flesh eaters when these people are eating animal flesh from childhood to adulthood.

If I speak to you with my native language, can you understand me?

Can you speak, write, read other language besides English?

Can you express your thought in most effective manner in foreign language?

I am asking you these questions because you are very hard on me about my intelligence.

Is it matter how intelligent we are or not?

In my opinion when people have true love for animals intelligence and love go together.

Of course opposite is true too.

Without love for animals, people can be very ignorant and foolish.

[VeganEssentials]

AllIveEverTouched, how do you know I did not deliver my message intelligently?

 

AllIveEverTouched never said that you didn't deliver it intelligently. Where was this said? I read the reply twice and couldn't find any evidence of this.

 

Can you deliver your message intelligently?

 

Again, nobody questioned your intelligence or that you cannot deliver a message intelligently. They only question the way that you deliver it with words and emotion that make people unsure of what you're trying to say due to your tone and the way to misinterpret what people reply with, such as how you just did with AllIveEverTouched. That's the only thing in question here, but you seem to want it to be something other than what it actually is and avoid the actual subject.

 

When I came to this forum, I had no idea about I am going to be insulted and get attack by some supposedly AR people.

 

People only developed a hostility when they perceived that you were attacking them for not living up to your own standards. Again, this may be a communication issue with interpretation, but you must now see, the majority of people believe that you need to find a better way to speak here that does not make it look like you're attacking us first.

 

but where is fruit of supposedly intelligent people who can deliver their messages so effectively?

 

Many of us take our message out to the streets and other areas where we're spreading it to non-vegans in hopes of converting them, not "preaching to the choir" and attacking them because they don't get as openly angry as you do. I don't try to convert other vegans to be angry, but rather try to convert non-vegans to go vegan. Big difference for what will accomplish more.

 

I hope you are smart enough to know what fruit means.

 

Again, you state that people who do not agree with you may be too stuipd to know what you're talking about. THIS is why people get mad at what you say, because you speak in a very condescending and angry tone when someone does not immediately agree with you and take the exact stance that you do. This is, in my opinion, NOT a good activist tactic and I believe I'd do more harm than good by acting in this manner. Maybe you've had better luck, but do not expect people to respect you when you show such disrespect to others. Very, very rude of you.

 

It is so interesting to know how some people's imagination work.

 

Yes, it truly is...

[veggymeggy]

AllI'veEverTouched, VeganEssentials, CG, everyone - you guys are all saints for you patience.

I haven't the faintest idea why you continue to correspond with Violet, but nonetheless, I'm unendingly impressed by your eloquent attempts to reason with her.

It's hard to piss me off - really, it is - but when I read her posts, I don't respond because I just want to tell her to shut the fuck up.

So - Kudos to all of you guys who can respond politely!!!!

[AllIveEverTouched]

If I thought this was a simple argument I wouldn't waste my time...

 

Violet, for one thing I do know what fruits are, though you aren't eloquently using the term due to language barriers. For another, I've just recently helped two of my friends who I talk to every day online become vegetarian and I've been answering their questions. I know them in person so I can be sure that they're not just saying it to appease me. I've also helped another friend of mine consider what he eats much more and have bought him a faux-leather belt courtesy of Vegan Essentials to keep him from buying a real one (which he was very hesitant to do because of me). I'm always educating my friends about animal concerns and I urge you to do the same.

 

It is mistake for you to think that it is easiest thing for AR activists to change mind of flesh eaters when these people are eating animal flesh from childhood to adulthood.

 

If I speak to you with my native language, can you understand me?

 

Can you speak, write, read other language besides English?

 

 

All of these things I've quoted assume something about me. You've also quite often assumed things about other people who disagree with you. This is not an effective way to discuss things with people. When you do this it alienates the person you are speaking to and they will no longer listen to what you have to say. This is a basic, human, emotional reaction that can be expected for the majority of people around the world.

 

I am asking you these questions because you are very hard on me about my intelligence.

 

I spoke of the way you presented your arguments, not of your general intelligence as has been pointed out.

 

In my opinion when people have true love for animals intelligence and love go together. Of course opposite is true too. Without love for animals, people can be very ignorant and foolish.

 

This entire statement is assumptive and incorrect. There are many intelligent people who abuse animals and many uninformed people who care for animals.

[VeganEssentials]

So - Kudos to all of you guys who can respond politely!!!!

 

Trust me, it hasn't been the easiest. It can be funny how sometimes it is more challenging to communicate with people who share a similar mindset than it is to communicate with those who are against your beliefs. This is definitely one of those cases that can be trying to one's patience...

[VeganEssentials]

You ever do any public speaking Ryan? I know from meeting you that you probably knocked out that post fast, as that's just how you talk in person. You're very well spoken.

 

Thanks for the compliment, Jay, but I'm definitely not the greatest public speaker. I've always been on the shy side for that sort of thing (ditched every class that made me do a speech except for the one I did on skateboarding in 7th grade!) and even with considerably more confidence I still am not that great about it. I tend to write far better than I speak since when I speak I tend to look all over the place and start talking at warp speed when I get nervous, but who knows, maybe some day I'll overcome my fears on it!

[buzz]

Thanks for the compliment, Jay, but I'm definitely not the greatest public speaker. I've always been on the shy side for that sort of thing (ditched every class that made me do a speech except for the one I did on skateboarding in 7th grade!) and even with considerably more confidence I still am not that great about it. I tend to write far better than I speak since when I speak I tend to look all over the place and start talking at warp speed when I get nervous, but who knows, maybe some day I'll overcome my fears on it!

 

Funny, i am super shy and hated doing any kind of talks at school. Did one on skateboarding too, which was the only thing i was enthusiastic about. Showed some photos and the teacher said it was a pity i didn't put as much effort into my schoolwork as i did into skateboarding

[violet13]

VeganEssntial, I am sure if you got same message I got, you interpreted message below as insult.

"Do you think they would give up animal products altogether if you approached them with a more intelligent message?"

Now, stop and think.

Unintelligent people deliver their message unintelligently.

He(or) she was telling me indirectly I am unintelligent person.

I am sure any person with very little brain knows this is insult.

That is exactly somebody who posted his(or her) message said to me.

Now do you still telling me he(or she) did not insult me?

Read his(or her) message by pretending message is addressed to you.

If his (or her) message is addressed to you, you will read his(or her) message more carefully and draw completely different opinion.

I even don't bother to respond to some people because anybody who use word like ''shut the fuck up!". doesn't worth to exchange conversation with lady (or gentleman) like manner.

No wonder why many children use violent language today.

Our use of languge reflect our personality.

What is meaning of 'fuck' anyway?

I know it is extra nasty language but I am not sure exactly what mean.

One thing is sure, if my daughter uses such language, I feel too ashamed to admit she is my daughter.

In my opinion, teachers in school need to teach children how to behave like lady and gentleman and not like wild beast.

[Crash]

OK Violet... you read the message as insulting your intelligence while others and the poster meant presenting your argument in a factual way, not in an angry and emotive way. AllI'veEverTouched has stated he did not mean it as trying to insult you or your intelligence, so stop insulting everyone else and their veganism and intelligence.

 

I have to agree with Kathryn that some of your comments, while made with the best intentions for animals, can be taken in an insulting and offensive way by people who are already living a cruelty free lifestyle and who are already fighting for animal rights and to show others it is ok and possible to live cruelty free - frequently getting verbally abused in the process. So it does not help when a member of this haven (this forum) starts verbally abusing us as well.

 

I understand that you are angry, resentful and outraged at what some people do to animals and it's so easy to lash out at everyone and everything, but Violet.....are you reaching these people when you do that or are you just making yourself feel better ? Don't think for a minute that none of us has felt the same fury and pain and helplessness, but the way to reach people is not by attacking them. You have also stated that your messages have been misinterpreted by some and asked for understanding -- extend this same courtesy you have asked for to others. (ie, you may misunderstand a message).

 

Congratulations from converting someone to veganism with your conviction, but how many more could you have converted if they stayed and listened ? As was stated earlier, maybe the person you converted to veganism did not do so from your telling her she was wrong, but by how steadfast you were in your beliefs that you were right.

 

I know that you believe in Jesus -- how did Jesus go out to preach Christianity ? How did Martin Luther King, Jr and Malcolm X fight for civil rights ? How did Gandhi ? These people made a BIG difference -- and they did it without attacking anyone. They were all steadfast in their beliefs, but they did not attack anyone. No one is by any means perfect, but we can all learn from their examples.....

[CrispyQ]

It's hard to piss me off - really, it is - but when I read her posts, I don't respond because I just want to tell her to shut the fuck up.

 

Megan, I have a similar reaction!

 

 

Violet, you're preaching to the choir here & yet you’ve managed to alienate a number of us. Your message is frequently delivered with self-righteousness & hostility. I can only imagine the impression you leave on non-vegans. While I admire your passion for the plight of animals, if you want to open people’s minds to accept a vegan world view, you must show compassion to those you seem to despise.

[AllIveEverTouched]

VeganEssntial, I am sure if you got same message I got, you interpreted message below as insult.

"Do you think they would give up animal products altogether if you approached them with a more intelligent message?"

 

This is taken out of context and when read together with everything else I said it refers to the way in which you word your message. Perhaps I should have more carefully said "a more intelligently worded message." I apologize for any misunderstanding.

 

 

I even don't bother to respond to some people because anybody who use word like ''shut the fuck up!". doesn't worth to exchange conversation with lady (or gentleman) like manner.

 

Is it not worth it to have a conversation with someone who says "shut the fuck up" but wears fur? How are you going to change minds if strong language is a barrier to you?

 

 

 

 

Violet, why do you think people here are reacting to you this way? What do you make of all of this?

[violet13]

VeganEssentials, read his (or her) message carefully.

This person said "if you delivered your message intelligently, you could convert more people."

What he said is I DID NOT deliver my message intelligently.

It is very strange for some people(not all people) on this forum to criticize me for using cap or using strong words, etc but when other people use cap or strong words, it is perfectly ok and put blind hold to ignore.

I have no idea why some strange people think they are better than I.

Some people on forum have same attitide as slave owner.

If these people cannot treat people equally, they have no rights to speak about injustice when they are being treated unfairly.

Somebody said to me it is rude to use cap and told me to stop using cap but when compassionategirl used cap, this person put blind hold in his eyes and ignored.

Tell me about excuse for her to use cap.

There is always smart excuses for other people when they do same thing I do on this forum.

Any honest person can see this unfairness on this forum.

I beginning to understand how racism started.

Majority of people start discriminating minority and they even didn't realize it is ugliest state of human spirit.

Yes, there is unfairness on this forum and it is not my misunderstanding or lack of my knowledge of English language.

[_raVen_]

Good for you, violet13, I agree with you. I'd go even further than you, but that's irrelevant at this point. This entire thread is a ing display...

 

Both and

 

Anyone caring for an expounding on that can pm or email me, if curious, since I doubt I'll post in this thread again.

[violet13]

CrispyQ, so you think telling me "Shut fuck up!" is very peaceful intelligent way to communicate with me?

Please tell me meaning of the word 'fuck'.

If we expect to attract decent people on this forum, we need to stop using ing dirty violent language no matter how angry we get.

If I were moderator, I ban people who use indecent language less than one minute to keep my forum clean.

What kind of people use language 'fuck' anyway?

[violet13]

AlliveEverTouched, here is what you said.

>>Is it not worth it to have a conversation with someone who says "shut the fuck up" but wears fur? How are you going to change minds if strong language is a barrier to you? <<

 

When did I say anything about fur?

Stop putting extra word on my mouth to make your message more acceptable.

Please learn to copy my message correctly without adding extra word in my mouth.

If you are honest, you can do it.

Again, when I use strong word, some people think it is offensive but if some other people use it, it is perfectly ok.

Can you say UNFAIRNESS?

[Jay]

Yeah I agree raVen. But I'm a little less inclined to bother standing up for violet though anymore as I've done so in the past and for my troubles she's now going out of her way to attack me. And apparently now I only deserve to be ignored. Incredible.

 

And this thread has deteriorated into something irrelevant. violet can approach her vegan activism however she wants. The only real problem was what VeganEssentials pointed out with his initial post and then CG followed up on. And violet simply ignored it.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Jay

[kollision]

Violet, I think you misinterpreted AlliveEverTouched. Forgive me if I am wrong.

 

I think what he meant was how can you get easily mad about someone cursing when someone who wears fur might do the same to you? That's why he said, "How are you going to change minds if strong language is a barrier to you?".

 

Again, forgive me if I misinterpreted that.

[AllIveEverTouched]

Violet you are missing the point. First of all I did not put extra words in your mouth as the quote was taken directly from what you said. Secondly, I was giving you a situation in which dismissing someone simply because of their language would not be beneficial to your cause.

 

Again, when I use strong word, some people think it is offensive but if some other people use it, it is perfectly ok.

Can you say UNFAIRNESS?

 

Ah but Violet, why is it unacceptable to you to have someone swear and yet it is perfectly acceptable to you to use your own "violent language"?

[VeganEssentials]

I have only 3 words left to say in all of this, and they are "I give up!"

 

Violet does not wish to understand why people feel uncomfortable by her attitude but rather wants to turn it around to how our treatment of her is based on insults and can somehow, in her mind, be equated to the roots of how racism starts (an example she used). Someone like this cannot or does not want to learn, so she redirects all the facts at hand into a sympathy card to make herself the victim even when she is the attacker. Anyone who wants to continue to try and scream at a brick wall regarding the reasons why she offends people can most certainly do so, but I'm outta here!

[madcat]

When did I say anything about fur?

 

viewtopic.php?t=1428

 

That was how this whole thing started. You came to us because you were banned from vegan freaks for doing the same thing you are doing now. And everyone here came to your defense until one by one you turned on us. I know that you mean well, but I think you must know by now you are digging a hole for yourself. Please learn to use your passion in a more constructive way. Perhaps take some writing classes. If not then I hope Rob will consider banning you because this forum has some great people and a great energy and we really need to stop fighting amongst ourselves. I hope that you taking this warning seriously, because if you keep acting this way sooner or later you are going to find yourself blacklisted from every vegan forum.